1911 barrel bushing ?

kidcoltoutlaw · February 3, 2002, 04:10 PM

i read it needs to be tight but not to tight or you will get barrel spring back. what is it and how will i know when i have it right.i put a national match bushing on my springfield 1911a1 mil spec.it shoots like a shotgun.if this dont help looks like i will have to sell it to someone that does not care about its accuracy or lack of should i say,thanks,keith

stans · February 3, 2002, 08:37 PM

Springback occurs when the bushing is so tight around the barrel that the locking lugs on the barrel will not fully seat into the lugs on the slide without applying pressure to the bottom of the barrel. A tight bushing is not the only factor in an accurate 1911. You can have a perfect bushing fit on a poor barrel and still have poor accuracy. Sometimes you just have to break down and buy a match grade barrel.

kidcoltoutlaw · February 3, 2002, 08:50 PM

ok thanks the barrel is on a new springfield mil spec. bushing is kind of tight .if you take the barrel off and slip the bushing on it, it will not fall off if you hold the barrel up or down,also it will not slide by its own weight.

C.R.Sam · February 3, 2002, 10:50 PM

Before messin with it. Get ahold of Springfield customer service. Sounds like you have a good reason to send it back. They should pay the freight both ways.

Sam

johnwill · February 4, 2002, 09:12 AM

I'm not entirely sure you have a problem. If the bushing slides reasonably easily if you lube it, I'd try shooting it. I'll bet that there isn't a problem with the gun right now...

George Stringer · February 4, 2002, 09:26 AM

I agree with Johnwill. If the slide is going all the way into battery then you probably don't have a problem. George

Ledbetter · February 4, 2002, 02:11 PM

Is just nothing to write home about. Mine is probably the least accurate full size pistol I own. It locks up just as tight as my two other 1911s.

I suspect the barrel, which is two piece, is the weak link.

zot · February 4, 2002, 04:36 PM

do some of you mean ,the more you shoot it might improve accuarcy?and why are you putting a national match bushing in ?
I think their hard to tune, for me anyway.I'd shoot till it started
12 inch patterns, THEN send it back to SFA.

kidcoltoutlaw · February 4, 2002, 08:17 PM

so for 400 or 500 can wilson make it shoot 2 inches or less at 25 yards.should i sell it and get a sig p220st or maybe a wilson kz.got a friend that will give me 400 for the springfield.have not tried it since i did the bushing but if it dont shoot it has to go .to my friend or to wilson for work,thanks,keith

Ledbetter · February 4, 2002, 08:29 PM

This is another in a series of threads I've seen whose basis is "I put an unfitted part in my pistol and now it won't shoot for $#|+. I guess the pistol is no good."

Stop. Think.

Put the gun back in its original configuration and benchrest test it. Determine its baseline. No matter what, a SA Mil-Spec is not going to shoot like a pistol with a target barrel and bushing. However, you can replace and fit upgraded parts to improve the group size. The heart of any gun is its barrel. A 1911 needs the barrel and bushing to be fitted as a unit, IMHO.

Regards.

James K · February 5, 2002, 12:26 AM

The reason for a fitted barrel bushing is that it takes the play out in two places, the slide to bushing fit and the bushing to barrel fit. The job looks simpler than it is and an improperly fitted bushing can cause problems, as stans said.

But a properly fitted bushing will not solve other problems. If the slide is loose on the frame, if the rear of the barrel is not locking up tightly, if the link and barrel skirt fit is sloppy, if the barrel hood is poorly fitted, if the barrel is worn out, the gun will not shoot, regardless of the bushing.

Jim

johnwill · February 5, 2002, 10:15 AM

Quote:

I suspect the barrel, which is two piece, is the weak link.

I hear this comment a lot, yet I've never had anyone actually explain to me why the Springfield barrels are so bad. I can't believe they could sell them for so many years if the two piece barrel was such a problem. Is this just an opinion, or do you have real evidence that the two piece barrel is inferior in design? I'm not trying to annoy anyone here, just trying to get an honest evaluation.

**4V50 Gary** · February 5, 2002, 10:35 AM

Besides a tight fitting barrel bushing, the length of the link is also critical to accuracy for a good barrel. As mentioned earlier, a good match barrel won't shoot consistently if it is inconsistently locked up. Hence the requirement for a tight link and tight fitting barrel bushing. Some even go further and tighten the frame and slide play.

Lassen College will be offering gunsmithing classes again this summer and one course will be on the Colt 1911 (June 24-28). Call them at 530-251-8808.

Ledbetter · February 5, 2002, 01:33 PM

I don't know if the barrel being made form two pieces is the reason why a Mil-Spec won't shoot 2"groups at 25 yards. Mine is in perfect condition as far as I can see and it shoots softball sized groups, which is about what I expected.

My above comment is based on a comparison of my Mil-Spec (which I have bench tested) to my other 1911s. The biggest difference between the guns that I can see is the quality of the barrel. My other two 1911s are Colts, one of which has two barrels, one threaded for a comp, the other not.

Regards.

M1911 · February 5, 2002, 04:10 PM

Johnwill:

I don't know whether the two-piece barrel is the culprit, but my gunsmith believes that I will need to have it replaced before I'll get the accuracy I'm looking for in my Springfield. Put it this way, my groups with my Kimber Compact (4" barrel) were significantly better than those with my fullsize Springfield.

Kidcoltoutlaw:

There's no reason to sell that Springfield. There are probably hundreds of gunsmiths that can make it shoot accurately. But it may cost you a new, properly fitted barrel and bushing.

M1911

johnwill · February 5, 2002, 04:31 PM

There are a number of gunsmiths that will tell you the Springfield barrel is fine, and mine shoots 2" groups from a rest at 25 yards. I sent my Springfield to Mac Scott at SM&A for their tactical carry package. When I asked about a new barrel, he told me that there was nothing wrong with the Springfield barrel and to save that $150 for something that needed doing. I took his advice, and it seemed he was right, at least in my case.

James K · February 5, 2002, 05:50 PM

I doubt that the two piece barrel itself is the problem. Once those two pieces are put together right, they are effectively one piece and I have not heard of any problems. That does not mean that all two-piece barrels are good, any more than it means that all one piece barrels are good.

Jim

johnwill · February 5, 2002, 06:59 PM

Jim, I think you have just summed it up in one sentence!

February 3, 2002, 04:10 PM	#1
kidcoltoutlaw Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: bluefield Posts: 735	1911 barrel bushing ? i read it needs to be tight but not to tight or you will get barrel spring back. what is it and how will i know when i have it right.i put a national match bushing on my springfield 1911a1 mil spec.it shoots like a shotgun.if this dont help looks like i will have to sell it to someone that does not care about its accuracy or lack of should i say,thanks,keith __________________ It's not just a gun it's the symbol of freedom

February 3, 2002, 08:50 PM	#3
kidcoltoutlaw Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: bluefield Posts: 735	ok thanks the barrel is on a new springfield mil spec. bushing is kind of tight .if you take the barrel off and slip the bushing on it, it will not fall off if you hold the barrel up or down,also it will not slide by its own weight. __________________ It's not just a gun it's the symbol of freedom

February 4, 2002, 02:11 PM	#7
Ledbetter Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2000 Location: California USA Posts: 4,533	Mil-Spec accuracy Is just nothing to write home about. Mine is probably the least accurate full size pistol I own. It locks up just as tight as my two other 1911s. I suspect the barrel, which is two piece, is the weak link.

February 4, 2002, 08:17 PM	#9
kidcoltoutlaw Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: bluefield Posts: 735	so for 400 or 500 can wilson make it shoot 2 inches or less at 25 yards.should i sell it and get a sig p220st or maybe a wilson kz.got a friend that will give me 400 for the springfield.have not tried it since i did the bushing but if it dont shoot it has to go .to my friend or to wilson for work,thanks,keith __________________ It's not just a gun it's the symbol of freedom

February 4, 2002, 08:29 PM	#10
Ledbetter Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2000 Location: California USA Posts: 4,533	Don't be offended This is another in a series of threads I've seen whose basis is "I put an unfitted part in my pistol and now it won't shoot for $#\|+. I guess the pistol is no good." Stop. Think. Put the gun back in its original configuration and benchrest test it. Determine its baseline. No matter what, a SA Mil-Spec is not going to shoot like a pistol with a target barrel and bushing. However, you can replace and fit upgraded parts to improve the group size. The heart of any gun is its barrel. A 1911 needs the barrel and bushing to be fitted as a unit, IMHO. Regards.

February 3, 2002, 08:37 PM	#2
stans Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2001 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 838	Springback occurs when the bushing is so tight around the barrel that the locking lugs on the barrel will not fully seat into the lugs on the slide without applying pressure to the bottom of the barrel. A tight bushing is not the only factor in an accurate 1911. You can have a perfect bushing fit on a poor barrel and still have poor accuracy. Sometimes you just have to break down and buy a match grade barrel.

February 3, 2002, 10:50 PM	#4
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Before messin with it. Get ahold of Springfield customer service. Sounds like you have a good reason to send it back. They should pay the freight both ways. Sam

February 4, 2002, 09:12 AM	#5
johnwill Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2000 Location: PA Posts: 3,451	I'm not entirely sure you have a problem. If the bushing slides reasonably easily if you lube it, I'd try shooting it. I'll bet that there isn't a problem with the gun right now...

February 4, 2002, 09:26 AM	#6
George Stringer Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 12, 1998 Location: Earlington KY Posts: 2,299	I agree with Johnwill. If the slide is going all the way into battery then you probably don't have a problem. George

February 4, 2002, 04:36 PM	#8
zot Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 1999 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 566	do some of you mean ,the more you shoot it might improve accuarcy?and why are you putting a national match bushing in ? I think their hard to tune, for me anyway.I'd shoot till it started 12 inch patterns, THEN send it back to SFA.

February 5, 2002, 12:26 AM	#11
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The reason for a fitted barrel bushing is that it takes the play out in two places, the slide to bushing fit and the bushing to barrel fit. The job looks simpler than it is and an improperly fitted bushing can cause problems, as stans said. But a properly fitted bushing will not solve other problems. If the slide is loose on the frame, if the rear of the barrel is not locking up tightly, if the link and barrel skirt fit is sloppy, if the barrel hood is poorly fitted, if the barrel is worn out, the gun will not shoot, regardless of the bushing. Jim

February 5, 2002, 10:35 AM	#13
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,838	Besides a tight fitting barrel bushing, the length of the link is also critical to accuracy for a good barrel. As mentioned earlier, a good match barrel won't shoot consistently if it is inconsistently locked up. Hence the requirement for a tight link and tight fitting barrel bushing. Some even go further and tighten the frame and slide play. Lassen College will be offering gunsmithing classes again this summer and one course will be on the Colt 1911 (June 24-28). Call them at 530-251-8808. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

February 5, 2002, 01:33 PM	#14
Ledbetter Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2000 Location: California USA Posts: 4,533	Johnwill I don't know if the barrel being made form two pieces is the reason why a Mil-Spec won't shoot 2"groups at 25 yards. Mine is in perfect condition as far as I can see and it shoots softball sized groups, which is about what I expected. My above comment is based on a comparison of my Mil-Spec (which I have bench tested) to my other 1911s. The biggest difference between the guns that I can see is the quality of the barrel. My other two 1911s are Colts, one of which has two barrels, one threaded for a comp, the other not. Regards.

February 5, 2002, 04:10 PM	#15
M1911 Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2000 Posts: 4,055	Johnwill: I don't know whether the two-piece barrel is the culprit, but my gunsmith believes that I will need to have it replaced before I'll get the accuracy I'm looking for in my Springfield. Put it this way, my groups with my Kimber Compact (4" barrel) were significantly better than those with my fullsize Springfield. Kidcoltoutlaw: There's no reason to sell that Springfield. There are probably hundreds of gunsmiths that can make it shoot accurately. But it may cost you a new, properly fitted barrel and bushing. M1911

February 5, 2002, 04:31 PM	#16
johnwill Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2000 Location: PA Posts: 3,451	There are a number of gunsmiths that will tell you the Springfield barrel is fine, and mine shoots 2" groups from a rest at 25 yards. I sent my Springfield to Mac Scott at SM&A for their tactical carry package. When I asked about a new barrel, he told me that there was nothing wrong with the Springfield barrel and to save that $150 for something that needed doing. I took his advice, and it seemed he was right, at least in my case.

February 5, 2002, 05:50 PM	#17
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I doubt that the two piece barrel itself is the problem. Once those two pieces are put together right, they are effectively one piece and I have not heard of any problems. That does not mean that all two-piece barrels are good, any more than it means that all one piece barrels are good. Jim

February 5, 2002, 06:59 PM	#18
johnwill Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2000 Location: PA Posts: 3,451	Jim, I think you have just summed it up in one sentence!