Dillon and rifle/bottle neck reloads

benewton · July 21, 2002, 04:04 PM

Gentlemen:
I currently run a Dillon 650, with the usual case feeder, for all pistol rounds.
But I also shoot 5.56 NATO, not to mention .308 NATO, and would like to load these rounds on the fast guy, rather than use the old processes on the rockchucker.

Still, you have to lube the bottle necks, prior to insertion into the case loader, which seems like asking for trouble to me.
Too, even if I could clean up the auto feeder hopper, I'd still be left with lube on the finished rounds, another no-no.

Dillon suggested that I tumble the completed rounds to remove the lube: right: spitzers and live primers in the same bowl?
I may fire in the back yard, but I do like to know there the slugs are going.

Since the rifle ammo conversion kits for the machind are produced, there has to be a method I've not thought of.

So, what is it?

cheygriz · July 21, 2002, 08:24 PM

Spray lube your cases with Dillon spray lube. Let them air dry for a day or two. (two is better) Load normally, then tumble your loaded rounds in corncob with a couple of tablespoons of mineral spirits mixed in. This procedure has been used successfully by a good friend for several years, with no problems whatsoever. (He got the idea from Dillon)

I load several thousand .223 and .308 on a 650 every year. I prefer to size/deprime on a single stage press, and then load the sized, trimmed, gauged, cleaned, and deprimed cases on the 650.

Both procedures work well. My preferred procedure is, admittedly, a pain in the arse. But I'm comfortable with it, it works, and I can still turn out enormous volumes of ammo in a short time. (Actually, I can load ammo with this procedure faster than I can earn the money to buy components)

BTW, I've tumbled several thousands of rounds of grungy milsurp loaded ammo in a rotary tumbler, (Thumler's Model B) and had no problems at all.

Even though I don't use Dillon's preferred procedure on this, I completely trust their advice. I know a commercial reloader who has tumbled several millions of rounds of spitzer ammo, and never had a discharge.

benewton · July 22, 2002, 04:24 PM

Thanks for the reply.

While I still don't trust the idea of tumbling live rounds, according to Hatcher, even if one lights off, I'm unlikely to have much damage, but you have to admit it seems risky...

Live and learn, I guess, but I think I'll probably follow your method: decap and size on the single stage, then delete the sizer and run them through the Dillon.

Thanks, again.

HankL · July 22, 2002, 07:29 PM

Ben, One of the biggest worries about tumbling loaded rounds that I have heard of is changing the burning propertys of the powder by removing it's coating. That being said, I have been reloading 308 on a Dillon 650 for several years in this manner:
1. Clean cases lubed with Dillon Case Lube go through Dillon
Trimmer. The die in the trimmer sizes the case to a point.

2. Load the case in the RL 650 including priming. If your primer
pockets are prepaired you shouldn't have a problem.

3. Dump the loaded rounds into a vibratory tumbler with walnut
media and run it for ten min. or so. Wipe the round with a clean
rag when you pull it from the tumbler.

I have been doing this using W748 and Special Ball as sold by Pat McDonald. Both are ball powders Never had one go off in the tumbler and the standard deviation on the S.B. with good brass is always around 12 fps.

One note on loading rifle vs pistol on a RL650. Since the powder in a rifle case is near the top a very smooth cadence of motion will need to be developed to keep powder from sloshing out of the cases as they go around.

This is the way I do it. I am not an expert nor do I carry liability insurance for fools who might follow my advice in this area.

bfoster · July 24, 2002, 09:16 AM

Dillon offers carbide dies for 223 & 308. If you have really clean brass it really isn't necessary to lube the cases with these dies.

Bob

benewton · July 24, 2002, 04:51 PM

Thanks all, once again.

I'd given some thought to the carbide dies, but, in general, I tend to follow directions. Too, I have the steel versions on hand, and while I've removed a few stuck cases, I wonder if I'd just be back in the same old - same old, with an extra sizer....

Hank, you get points for thinking things out: I did know about the coatings, but I hadn't considered the possible effects of tumbling.

I tend to load a "standardized" load for all of my weapons, minimizing the need to stock multiple powders, bullets, etc. And, in the case of the "standard" rifles, AR and M1A, the powder selected was 748, so you information was timely.

748 is supposed to be "hard" to ignite, and, since I'm doing semiauto's, I normally use the CCI military primers, so I guess ten minutes wouldn't hurt. Still, live ammo, spitzers, static electricty, and now, possible coating problems...

I suspect that, assuming I start firing enough rifle to make it worth the bucks, I'll size/decap on the 'chucker, then do the priming/loading on the Dillon, which currently lacks both the feeder plates and the conversion kits for same.

Or, as I usually end up explaining: "It seemed right at the time..."

HankL · July 24, 2002, 06:35 PM

Ben, I'm using Dillon's standard dies. Enough lube is left on the case after the trimming operation for reliable full length sizing.
Knocking on wooden head. I have had zero stuck cases using this method. 10 min. in the tumbler will get the Dillon case lube off and I wipe the cases to get any tumbler dust off and to give them a final look over. The standard deviations and exterior ballistics are the same as rounds that were hand cleaned of lube with solvent.

July 21, 2002, 04:04 PM	#1
benewton Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2002 Location: NH Posts: 253	Dillon and rifle/bottle neck reloads Gentlemen: I currently run a Dillon 650, with the usual case feeder, for all pistol rounds. But I also shoot 5.56 NATO, not to mention .308 NATO, and would like to load these rounds on the fast guy, rather than use the old processes on the rockchucker. Still, you have to lube the bottle necks, prior to insertion into the case loader, which seems like asking for trouble to me. Too, even if I could clean up the auto feeder hopper, I'd still be left with lube on the finished rounds, another no-no. Dillon suggested that I tumble the completed rounds to remove the lube: right: spitzers and live primers in the same bowl? I may fire in the back yard, but I do like to know there the slugs are going. Since the rifle ammo conversion kits for the machind are produced, there has to be a method I've not thought of. So, what is it?

July 21, 2002, 08:24 PM	#2
cheygriz Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2002 Location: high up in the rockies Posts: 2,289	Spray lube your cases with Dillon spray lube. Let them air dry for a day or two. (two is better) Load normally, then tumble your loaded rounds in corncob with a couple of tablespoons of mineral spirits mixed in. This procedure has been used successfully by a good friend for several years, with no problems whatsoever. (He got the idea from Dillon) I load several thousand .223 and .308 on a 650 every year. I prefer to size/deprime on a single stage press, and then load the sized, trimmed, gauged, cleaned, and deprimed cases on the 650. Both procedures work well. My preferred procedure is, admittedly, a pain in the arse. But I'm comfortable with it, it works, and I can still turn out enormous volumes of ammo in a short time. (Actually, I can load ammo with this procedure faster than I can earn the money to buy components) BTW, I've tumbled several thousands of rounds of grungy milsurp loaded ammo in a rotary tumbler, (Thumler's Model B) and had no problems at all. Even though I don't use Dillon's preferred procedure on this, I completely trust their advice. I know a commercial reloader who has tumbled several millions of rounds of spitzer ammo, and never had a discharge. __________________ If you think a mighty military force is expensive, wait 'til you see what a weak one costs.

July 22, 2002, 07:29 PM	#4
HankL Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 1999 Location: The Sunny South Posts: 2,174	Ben, One of the biggest worries about tumbling loaded rounds that I have heard of is changing the burning propertys of the powder by removing it's coating. That being said, I have been reloading 308 on a Dillon 650 for several years in this manner: 1. Clean cases lubed with Dillon Case Lube go through Dillon Trimmer. The die in the trimmer sizes the case to a point. 2. Load the case in the RL 650 including priming. If your primer pockets are prepaired you shouldn't have a problem. 3. Dump the loaded rounds into a vibratory tumbler with walnut media and run it for ten min. or so. Wipe the round with a clean rag when you pull it from the tumbler. I have been doing this using W748 and Special Ball as sold by Pat McDonald. Both are ball powders Never had one go off in the tumbler and the standard deviation on the S.B. with good brass is always around 12 fps. One note on loading rifle vs pistol on a RL650. Since the powder in a rifle case is near the top a very smooth cadence of motion will need to be developed to keep powder from sloshing out of the cases as they go around. This is the way I do it. I am not an expert nor do I carry liability insurance for fools who might follow my advice in this area. __________________ Check 6

July 24, 2002, 06:35 PM	#7
HankL Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 1999 Location: The Sunny South Posts: 2,174	Ben, I'm using Dillon's standard dies. Enough lube is left on the case after the trimming operation for reliable full length sizing. Knocking on wooden head. I have had zero stuck cases using this method. 10 min. in the tumbler will get the Dillon case lube off and I wipe the cases to get any tumbler dust off and to give them a final look over. The standard deviations and exterior ballistics are the same as rounds that were hand cleaned of lube with solvent. __________________ Check 6

July 22, 2002, 04:24 PM	#3
benewton Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2002 Location: NH Posts: 253	Thanks for the reply. While I still don't trust the idea of tumbling live rounds, according to Hatcher, even if one lights off, I'm unlikely to have much damage, but you have to admit it seems risky... Live and learn, I guess, but I think I'll probably follow your method: decap and size on the single stage, then delete the sizer and run them through the Dillon. Thanks, again.

July 24, 2002, 09:16 AM	#5
bfoster Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 1998 Location: N. of Fords Switch, OK, USA Posts: 297	Dillon offers carbide dies for 223 & 308. If you have really clean brass it really isn't necessary to lube the cases with these dies. Bob

July 24, 2002, 04:51 PM	#6
benewton Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2002 Location: NH Posts: 253	Thanks all, once again. I'd given some thought to the carbide dies, but, in general, I tend to follow directions. Too, I have the steel versions on hand, and while I've removed a few stuck cases, I wonder if I'd just be back in the same old - same old, with an extra sizer.... Hank, you get points for thinking things out: I did know about the coatings, but I hadn't considered the possible effects of tumbling. I tend to load a "standardized" load for all of my weapons, minimizing the need to stock multiple powders, bullets, etc. And, in the case of the "standard" rifles, AR and M1A, the powder selected was 748, so you information was timely. 748 is supposed to be "hard" to ignite, and, since I'm doing semiauto's, I normally use the CCI military primers, so I guess ten minutes wouldn't hurt. Still, live ammo, spitzers, static electricty, and now, possible coating problems... I suspect that, assuming I start firing enough rifle to make it worth the bucks, I'll size/decap on the 'chucker, then do the priming/loading on the Dillon, which currently lacks both the feeder plates and the conversion kits for same. Or, as I usually end up explaining: "It seemed right at the time..."