Who makes the "best" AR-15?

[Brenten]

if you want to pay for the colt name, so be it, I have no issue with that. However, the colt M4's I have had issued have not been anywhere near as reliable as the RRA M4's I had issued. The RRA has been considerably more reliable than the colt M4.

[SEHunter]

There was a kind fellow that pmd' me with alot of good info on ARs' and he spoke well of RRA and had one. Said their trigger is second to none. I have also heard another guy say they are junk? As a matter of fact, for every guy that swears by his brand, there are 3 more that say that brand is junk....honest to goodness. To be honest, i probably will go with Colt for their name because it is a good name. If i took everybodys advice, i would end up with no AR-15 because they would all be junk not worth my money.

[Brenten]

just consider that RRA receivers are some of the most customized receivers out there. It may not have been an RRA rifle. Just their receiver built by someone else. Many agencies have switched from Colt to RRA so take that into consideration. They did not do this due to cost as their cost is basically the same. I'd go with LWRC, LMT or RRA, before I'd get a colt.

[Skyyr]

There was a kind fellow that pmd' me with alot of good info on ARs' and he spoke well of RRA and had one. Said their trigger is second to none. I have also heard another guy say they are junk? As a matter of fact, for every guy that swears by his brand, there are 3 more that say that brand is junk....honest to goodness. To be honest, i probably will go with Colt for their name because it is a good name. If i took everybodys advice, i would end up with no AR-15 because they would all be junk not worth my money.

RRA's can (notice that word - can) be good rifles, but they simply cannot hold up to the top-tiered AR's because they simply don't have the QC (or quality for that matter) that the others do... and they stray many from the mil-spec requirements on many of their models. This doesn't mean they can't be or aren't good rifles, but it does mean that you'll find things like non-standard/proprietary selector switches, proprietary handguards, commercial twist-rates, 4140 (the lowest-end mil-spec steel) barrel steel, non-staked carriers, yadda yadda - none of these features would be found in any true mil-spec weapon and, because of this, it can't be guaranteed to hold up under rigorous use. Refer back to this chart (originally posted by NSO) and you'll see how many corners RRA cuts on their rifles (conversely, notice how much they still charge for their rifles).

Very few manufacturers make fully mil-spec weapons (or at least the closest commercial equivalent). Because of the competition of the industry, many manufacturers cut corners or try to "improve" the established design with their own proprietary creations. RRA is one of these manufacturers... and it's also the reason that you hear mixed reviews. Straying from the mil-spec requirements CAN be an improvement to some people (i.e. user comfort, cost, "feel", etc), but it also becomes a negative for the users that need an AR that will run in any condition with any ammo, or who might dump several mags at a time. It's basically a gamble.

Again, the established top-tier weapons are Noveske, LMT, Colt, and the newer BCM. These manufacturers are the best for a reason - they don't cut corners or redesign mil-spec aspects of their weapons to reduce costs or market to more users. It's also the reason you pay more for them.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

There was a kind fellow that pmd' me with alot of good info on ARs' and he spoke well of RRA and had one. Said their trigger is second to none. I have also heard another guy say they are junk?

Well, to give an example, RRA's have been very popular in High Power circles because they are accurate and reliable. However, a High Power shooter doesn't fire anywhere near what a basic carbine class might cover. Somebody using the RRA in that class might be unhappy because the tighter chamber leads to stoppages as the rifle gets hot.

For another example, the pin holding the disconnector and trigger together in the RRA match trigger is short enough that it can actually work out of the hole and bind the trigger. The pin is also soft and has occasionally broken in half. It happens once in a blue moon; but when it does it is a show stopper. Not a big deal if you get an alibi on the range; but in a class or for a patrol rifle, not a happy scenario.

Now I wouldn't say this makes RRA junk; but you need to buy the product that corresponds to your needs. RRA has not been that product in the high-volume carbine shooting niche; but they have been improving their product recently and you can certainly take the product they offer and upgrade it to that level. In any case, depending on what the shooters you were talking to needed from the rifle, both could have been telling you the truth.

[Skyyr]

just consider that RRA receivers are some of the most customized receivers out there. It may not have been an RRA rifle. Just their receiver built by someone else. Many agencies have switched from Colt to RRA so take that into consideration. They did not do this due to cost as their cost is basically the same. I'd go with LWRC, LMT or RRA, before I'd get a colt.

A mil-spec forged receiver is a mil-spec forged receiver is a mil-spec forged receiver is a... you get the idea. All mil-spec forged receivers are virtually equal. There is some debate that billet receivers can offer further strength and a slight edge in accuracy due to their stiffer reinforcement/structure, but that's another discussion for another thread.

The measurable difference in quality comes down to the barrel, the bolt, the trigger, the correct buffer weight matched to the gas system, and the mil-spec deviation (or lack thereof) of the 1913 rails. The only thing that the RRA has an advantage in is the trigger, yet it isn't even mil-spec.

A combat carbine needs a single-stage combat trigger to prevent inadvertent firing by an overly-sensitive trigger (i.e. hair-trigger sensitivity) of the weapon. The RRA trigger is a two-stage trigger. While this is good for bench-shooters/target punchers who want the slow, low-pressure break on the trigger, any serious bench shooter is going to go for something like a Geiselle trigger.

The RRA trigger is a good middle-ground for those wanting a decent two-stage trigger on a budget, but it's not the nicest by any means.

[NSO_w/_SIG]

just consider that RRA receivers are some of the most customized receivers out there. It may not have been an RRA rifle. Just their receiver built by someone else. Many agencies have switched from Colt to RRA so take that into consideration. They did not do this due to cost as their cost is basically the same. I'd go with LWRC, LMT or RRA, before I'd get a colt.

Laughable stuff in this thread for sure. As a owner of many of the brands mentioned in this thread and someone who carries a Colt 6520 for a living. I'd like to hear your reasons why RRA is higher quality than Colt.

Besides fit and finish what is so good about RRA? Mine turned into a single shot rifle in the middle of a course of fire with only about 100 rounds down range out of it. RRA? No thanks there are plenty of other companies out there that have more quality control measures in place for the less than RRA.

[jay1382]

I have a question concerning twist rate. I understand that a high twist rate of say 1:12 will cause a heavier bullet to tumble. What happens to a lighter bullet, say 55 grams in an AR with a low twist rate, say 1:7
thanks

[5RWill]

In some cases i would say there is little to none effect. Now i'm mainly referring to bolt action rifles but a carbine could be different. Some bullets are greater affected by twist rates than others. For instance the 6.5mm round is greatly affected by twist. I've seen light bullets group decently in shorter twist rates. My friend shoots 62gr FMJs through his RRA with 1 in 9 twist and it will shoot 3/4 MOA. This is all what i've gathered from experience, i haven't read into it that heavily.

Again, the established top-tier weapons are Noveske, LMT, Colt, and the newer BCM. These manufacturers are the best for a reason - they don't cut corners or redesign mil-spec aspects of their weapons to reduce costs or market to more users. It's also the reason you pay more for them.

Sums up the thread IMO.

[milo-2]

SEHunter,
Man, you got a pile of infohere, if your not too saturated I'll give some more.
I've never heard of Noveske before, looked a little, they are up there in price, can't comment on them.
I own a Colt 16" H bar, it's OK, shoots where I aim it. You never did mention your price range till later in the posts, so this might be in vain.
In my opinion, JP Enterprises makes a top qaulity firearm. Go to www.jprifles.com
The JP-15 starts at 2K, but that LMOSS operating system, combined with the adjustable gas block is amazing for a gas operated system. You don't get the rattle-bang of the carrier coming back.
I own the CTR-02, nicest gun I own, nuff said.
I own a Wilson Combat AR also, it is superior to the Colt.

But I did have the priveledge of shooting an STS piston operated carbine this fall. They had 6000rds through it, bolt was as clean as one of mine after acleaning. Impressive!
My next AR will have a piston system. I haven't seen many in the varmint configuration you are looking for though.
For 1k to 1200, RRA makes some qaulity pieces, that is where I would go if I were in your shoes.
Remember a trigger costs $200.00 plus install, and that is the first thing that will be replaced your Colt, just to be happy with your sightin.

JP's heat sink is another great innovation.
Good luck

[demigod]

Again, the established top-tier weapons are Noveske, LMT, Colt, and the newer BCM. These manufacturers are the best for a reason - they don't cut corners or redesign mil-spec aspects of their weapons to reduce costs or market to more users.

I'll never get why LMT gets lumped in with the TOP makers. LMT does all kinds of nonsense to cut costs. Some of these things are no biggie to people who don't know the AR WELL... but straight FSB pins, No park under the FSB, and the MIM gas keys are a few examples of LMT cost cutting shortcuts.

I won't buy anything from LMT, Jack.

[Art Eatman]

I don't know about "best". Some dozen years back I had a Bushmaster Match Target which was half-MOA all day long. Yucky trigger.

I have a late-model Colt with a 20" barrel; with irons I can get one MOA from the bench. I also have a CMMG upper for it, with a scope; 20" slow twist as a varmint gun. It's one MOA or better, depending mostly on me. I'm quite pleased with both combinations. I'd call the trigger "decent".

[demigod]

I don't know about "best". Some dozen years back I had a Bushmaster Match Target which was half-MOA all day long. Yucky trigger.

That's a good point too! The "best" might depend on what you want the rifle to do. Precision work? Blasting your way through the latest, greatest tactical goofball's carbine class?, Hunting? etc...