9mm Load Used for SD/HD

[Dave85]

That article that Chuck Hawks Posted was written anonymously and, although updated four years ago, is a bit long in the tooth. It is also important to note that it is based in large part on the work of Marshall and Sanow. While their work is not entirely worthless, their controversial "one shot stop" numbers have pretty much set the full acceptance of their conclusions on a downward trend.

While I do not use them, it must be said that the 147 gr. bullets in use now are much better expanders that when the data that this article is based on was gathered.

I have read and referenced this in the past, and still find some useful information in there to mine. However, I think it's time that the author of that article either steps forward and claims it, or Chuck pulls it down from as many of the multitude of places it now exists as he can.

[zanthope]

147 grain +P DoubleTaps (Gold Dot bullets) in a Glock 17.
147 grain +P Buffalo Bores (Gold Dot bullets) in a Glock 19.

124 grain +P Speer Gold Dots in a S&W 3913.

The 147 grain loads above are rated around 1150 fps, the 124 +P chrono'd at 1207 fps from the 3913.

[jhgreasemonkey]

I am currently using speer gold dot 115 grain jhp +p's in my 9mm. I go for any high quality name brand modern jhp +p 9mm 115 to 124 grain. It works well in my gun and a lot of the research and articles on the subject available to us Joe Citizens state that it is the best choice. Like the Chuck Hawks article posted earlier. Or an example on pro 124 grain/anti 147 grain 9mm defensive round this is what the well respected Massad Ayoob had to say....

Experience has taught police that what actually happens on the street is more important than what happens in the artificial environment of the laboratory. The 9mm round now acknowledged to work the best is a 124-grain to 127-grain high tech hollow point at a velocity of 1250 feet per second. NYPD, with some 30,000 officers carrying this type of ammo, the Speer Gold Dot +P 124-grain, is happy with the performance of its 9mm service pistols. Ditto the Orlando, Florida, Police Department, which uses the Winchester Ranger 127-grain +P+ in their standard issue 9mm SIGs.

and about the 147 grain 9mm he had this to say...

the FBI adopted a heavy, slow moving 9mm bullet that weighed 147 grains and traveled at a subsonic velocity of less than 1000 feet per second.
Even this did not work terribly well. The bullet often went deep, but also frequently failed to expand reliably, and penetrated too far. Most departments that adopted it were so disappointed in the street results that they either changed ammunition or went to more powerful pistols.

[Dave85]

Exercise caution with those quotes from that Ayoob article on the Backwoods Home website: That article is old, too. Although the date at the top is today's, the original copyright date at the bottom of that page is from 1998. While the effectiveness of the 115, 124 & 127 gr. +P and +P+ rounds should perform as well as, if not better than what he catalogs in that article, the development of faster, better expanding 147 gr. loads has also continued apace.

ADD: I don't know that the article is as old as 1998, but based on the data and conclusions it contains, it appears to have been created closer to that date than to today. I know the first time I read it was several years ago.

[jhgreasemonkey]

Yeah it would be nice if most of the information on this subject wasn't so old. But my reasoning says to go with what is known to work unless enough useful data develops to say otherwise.
What we need is a good thorough modern evaluation done with the latest 9mm defensive ammo. And not just lab gelatin testing, but gathering recent police shooting information on the 9mm.

[Dave85]

Agreed.

[laytonj1]

I've got Buffalo Bore 124gr. +P+ in my G19. Why... 1300fps.

Jim

1. Item 24A/20 (+p+) 115gr. Jacketed Hollow Point

Browning Hi Power MK111, 4.6 inch barrel---------1426 fps
Beretta 92F, 4.9 inch barrel-----------------------------1402 fps
Glock 19, 4.0 inch barrel--------------------------------1389 fps

2. Item 24B/20 (+p+) 124gr. Jacketed Hollow Point

Browning Hi Power MK111, 4.6 inch barrel------------1330 fps
Beretta 92F, 4.9 inch barrel-------------------------------1304 fps
Glock 19, 4 inch barrel------------------------------------1296 fps

3. Item 24C/20 (+p+) 147gr. Jacketed Hollow Point

Browning Hi Power MK111, 4.6 inch barrel----------1179 fps
Beretta 92F, 4.9 inch barrel------------------------------1131 fps
Glock 19, 4.0 inch barrel---------------------------------1165 fps

[parrothead2581]

Yeah it would be nice if most of the information on this subject wasn't so old.

Here is what appears to be an updated version from Mr. Ayoob. I did not see a date, but he does reference improved 147gr loadings.

http://www.tactical-life.com/online/...ail=exclusives

[jhgreasemonkey]

Thanks Parrothead. That is a really great article. And it appears to be from early 2009.

[Pigaloo]

I am very fond of the DPX from Cor-Bon. The bullet performs wonderfully. Picture perfect expansion.

[Shawn Dodson]

jhgreasemonkey writes:

...this is what the well respected Massad Ayoob had to say....

He says a lot of things. Falsehoods and speculation included, so beware and don't fall victim: http://www.firearmstactical.com/tact...3/0604-03a.htm

[jhgreasemonkey]

Thanks for the heads up. I read your article and you have some pretty stong points on the matter.

[cfiben]

Federal HST 124grain or 147grain +p, this have the best ballistics of most modern ammo choices.

[kilo11]

I have tested many different 9mm loads for quite awhile now and I have found one thing to be true. The 9mm is a DEEP penetrator. I know it was a 9mm failure that sparked all the FBI testing protocal and 12in. gelaltin loads. But honestly after all the testing I've done and seen others do, the 9mm can be over-penetrative with the wrong loads. The 9mm also lacks in size and power, which makes it all the more important to pick a good load. With that being said, these are the best 9mm loads that I have seen to date. I will put them in the order that I believe show that best performance.

1. Winchester Ranger SXT 127gr.+P+ - 1250fps/441fpe
2. Corbon DPX 115gr. +p - 1275fps/415fpe
3. Federal 9BPLE 115gr +p+- 1300fps/432fpe
4. Corbon PwrBall 100gr.+p - 1475fps/483fpe
5. Speer Gold Dot 124gr. +p - 1250fps/430fpe


These are just the top 5 that I have tested and studied. The only reason the Winchester load beat out the DPX load was because all of the research I had done showed this load to have outstanding performance on the street as well as in the lab. If it wasn't for the Winchester's "street cred" I would say the DPX load is the best street load in 9mm.

With that being said, load selection is highly subjective. My advice is to study ballistics, learn the physics, do the research, and test all the loads you can at home or on the range. Then you can make an educated decision based on your own research, ideas, and methodology.

[benp]

Suggest you consider the 9mm loads recommended in this link: Service Pistol Duty and Self-Defense Loads

This is whose advice I follow. I carry 147gr HST's in my XD's and FNP9.

Since where I live is pretty cold over half of the year, the performance through the 4 layers of denim is what I focus on.

Here's another good article by Dr Roberts. CLICK

[wnycollector]

Federal Hi-Shok 115gr +p+ JHP. (or any 115gr +p+ JHP)

+1 on this suggestion. The +P+ 115gr has a long real world track record of stopping BG's in their tracks. I carry this type of ammo in all of my 9mm full sized pistols. I have settled upon the Federal HST 147gr JHP in my Kel-tec PF-9 though. I don't think the PF-9 (even with a 20lb recoil spring!) would stand up to 150 rounds of +P+ ammo to assure me of that rounds reliable feeding in my gun