Tennessee Senate approves constitutional Open Carry

[OuTcAsT]

http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/25194227...without-permit

It seems we are well on our way to open carry for all, no permit required except for those who conceal.

Still must pass the House of Representin' but, word is it likely will. A great start IMO.

[Ben Towe]

The House vote has been put on hold by the House Finance Subcommittee, some sources are saying indefinitely. Here is the link listing the Representatives who are on that committee: http:// http://www.capitol.tn.gov/ho...b-finance.html

[OuTcAsT]

I think one of the things that amazes me the most about this is, some of the biggest opposition I have seen is coming from current permit holders

As a current permit holder, I cannot understand the "sour grapes" attitude.

http://www.wsmv.com/story/25208337/t...-on-both-sides

My Senator is the sponsor of the bill. she believes the delay will be short and, I hope she is correct.

[zincwarrior]

I don't know about Tennessee but in Texas, CHLers are concerned that the OC types, if approved, will spur a wave of gunbuster signs, like what happened prior to the CHL law being changed requiring very very specific signage.

What will keep that from happening in Tennessee?

[Machineguntony]

With all due respect to my brothers and sisters who are friends of the second amendment, some of the open carry folk here in Texas are outright zany. They make us look bad with their constant attempts to push the envelope and put cops in a no-win situation.

As the previous poster said, open carry is just going to cause a bunch of the 30.06 signs (no concealed gun on premises allowed) to pop up. So yea, as a CHL holder, I say no to open carry.

[OuTcAsT]

I can see the possibility for a knee-jerk reaction, similar to the one we had when Bar/Restaurant carry became legal. But, I can also see the positives outweigh the negatives.


zincwarrior wrote;

the OC types

I have a permit and, I OC more often than concealed, have done so for many years without incident. The OC vs. CC horse has been beaten repeatedly so there is no sense in doing it again. To gain the ability for anyone to carry that may legally do so is a huge step forward IMO.

[Bill DeShivs]

Here is my take as a Tennessee resident:
Anyone with a permit can open carry here. Very few do. I doubt that too many more will strap on iron to go to Walmart. But, anyone can legally carry in their car-which is a big deal here in Memphis, the carjacking capital.
The permit holders opposing this seem to think they are "special" because they took a course and paid the state money to carry.
The measure was introduced because denying open carry violates the state constitution.

[Ben Towe]

I OC much of the time because of convenience. I doubt we'll see a wave of open carrying if it passes, but the vehicle carry is a big thing. Tennessee law on transporting a handgun in a vehicle without a handgun permit is absurd. You can have a rifle and 27,000 rounds of ammunition laying beside it and it's all good. A pistol with one round of ammo in it's general vicinity is magically loaded and you are carrying a deadly weapon.

[OuTcAsT]

Exactly, Bill DeShivs and Ben Towe. I don't think that there will suddenly be a huge uptick is people sportin' iron in public either but, there will likely be many who will now carry in their vehicles.

[Ben Towe]

The bill has been defeated in the House subcommittee 10-1. Rep. Micah Van Huss, the bill's sponsor, will abandon efforts to bring it to a full floor vote, the motion would to do so would require 66 yes votes in the 99 member House.

[glh17]

Outcast,
I believe there is a separate bill that has passed the Senate and is now in the House that permits a person to carry in a vehicle without a permit (HB 1480).

As for the open carry without permit, I'd rather the legislature just remove the permit requirement altogether as to only require one for conceal carry. I believe, no evidence but a strong feeling, that if substantial numbers start open carrying there will be more "No Firearms Allowed" signs.

If we're going to allow carry without permit, I think we ought to give the option of conceal carry to those who prefer it. The fact that I've spent money obtaining a permit is just water under the bridge. At least I wouldn't have to mess around with renewal.

[KyJim]

As for the open carry without permit, I'd rather the legislature just remove the permit requirement altogether as to only require one for conceal carry. I believe, no evidence but a strong feeling, that if substantial numbers start open carrying there will be more "No Firearms Allowed" signs.

It's amazing. We've always had constitutional open carry here in Kentucky and there's never been a major issue with it. I suppose open carry could raise some eyebrows in urban areas but most folks aren't normally interested in doing that. They would rather carry concealed.

[maestro pistolero]

If passed, would this moot Embody's appeal?

[glh17]

KYJim,
It's the urban areas that I have some concern over. I live in a suburb of Nashville and have never seen anyone OCing other than at the range or gun shop. I know some do but I've never seen it. Neither have my wife or daughter have either. Maybe it wouldn't be a big deal but I'd rather see the legislature give the non-permit holders the right to conceal carry as well.

This would in effect do away with permits but I think the reasoning behind permit requirements is more politically motivated than safety motivated anyway. Of course, politics matters in these things but if the legislature is going to allow OC without a permit I'd like to see concealed carry without as well.

Personally, there are several places I would not feel comfortable OCing but no problem with concealed. I suspect there are others like me. Just give everyone legally about to buy a handgun the right to carry it in whatever manner they want. Otherwise, keep things the way they are now.

[patrickmn]

The only reason handgun carry in state parks made it through was they agreed that the "No Guns Allowed" signs could stay up, even though guns are allowed.

A few weeks ago they failed to pass state preemption on allowing handgun carry in parks, with one of the issues being the cost to local governments to remove the signs.

Now they failed to pass unlicensed open carry and car carry because it would cut down on their income from carry permits.

Open carry is becoming common in West TN, and several states bordering TN already have unlicensed open carry. I do not believe going through the process of getting the carry permit makes anyone more capable of responsibly carrying a gun. The required material could be covered in a one-page, front/back pamphlet.

The state constitution gives the legislature the power to regulate the wearing of arms to prevent crime. I'm not sure how making the wearing of arms a crime prevents crime.

[Tom Servo]

If passed, would this moot Embody's appeal?

Probably, but I doubt it had any influence on this. Given Embody's current circumstances, I don't know if he'll be pursuing litigation for awhile.

[JimDandy]

The measure was introduced because denying open carry violates the state constitution.

If this is the case, why wasn't the law struck down by the court that said so?

[zxcvbob]

The bill has been defeated in the House subcommittee 10-1. Rep. Micah Van Huss, the bill's sponsor, will abandon efforts to bring it to a full floor vote, the motion would to do so would require 66 yes votes in the 99 member House.

I wonder how often outcomes like this are secretly prearranged before the bills are ever introduced? "We need to pass this in the House to show our constituents that we get it, but don't worry the Senate has said that they will kill it in committee". And vice versa.

But maybe I am just too cynical, and Tennessee politics ain't like that...

[JimDandy]

I live in a state with unlicensed open carry, and Shall Issue concealed carry permits with zero training requirements. I've not seen anyone open carry, though I have seen a couple people who had some sort of hybrid carry going on where it could have been a careless version of either.

When gun laws have been suggested or raised in the Statehouse, we've had demonstrators with people slinging a rifle over their shoulder or walking around with a drop-leg but that's pretty rare, and not carrying for carrying's sake. Likewise I have seen a guy wearing a western rig and a single action colt, but it was blackpowder, unloaded, un-capped, and for a halloween costume. Again not something I'd label as open carry for carry's sake.

Maybe the training requirement adds up to more people open carrying, but I doubt it. Even our demonstrators out here are a fairly small band when they come out at all. For being a "blue state" full of "liberals" our gun laws are just too good to rock the boat.

[arizonaopa]

Here in AZ we have no permit open and concealed carry. The only reason I have a CCW is for the reciprocity with other states that I travel to. You don't see many people open carry here but no one bats an eye when someone does. I don't think an open carry law will cause an explosion of open carry. However, given events in other states, if open carry laws are passed, education of the public needs to take place. There have been a number of instances in which 911 was called because someone did not know that open carry was legal and the sight of a gun alarmed them. This education also needs to extend to 911 operators to have them ask people that call saying a person has a gun whether the person is waving the gun around, threatening someone, or just walking with a gun in the holster. Police officers also need to be trained about the open carry laws.
In many cases, open carry people are antagonistic towards police that ask them about their weapons. The open carry people need to act like adults and cooperate with the police as long as the police act like adults and are respectful although cautious about the open carrier. For the LEOs out there, remember, a legally carried open firearm does not give you the right to act like the south end of a north bound mule. Respect between the two sides is needed to prevent altercations that could get out of hand.

[zxcvbob]

Tennessee Senate approves constitutional Open Carry
http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/25194227...without-permit

It seems we are well on our way to open carry for all, no permit required except for those who conceal.

Still must pass the House of Representin' but, word is it likely will. A great start IMO.

Maybe I'm just getting cynical in my middle-age, but sometimes I wonder if bills like this get introduced and passed in one chamber of a legislature only after being assured behind closed doors that it'll never see the light-of-day in the other chamber. It gives both sides opportunities to fire up their base.

[armoredman]

Considering how much hooplah I hear about pro rights bills introduced in the US House of Representatives, when we know the chance of them going through the current Senate AND being signed by the current Chief Executive is the same as a man successfully passing a bowling ball through his digestive system, unharmed, yeah, the possibility exists it is just politics as usual.

[Tinner666]

OC has been fine here in Va. for as long as I remember. I CC and OC. I've even seen legal aliens OC'ing and know of many CC'ing.
Thing is, even when I spotted a guy with dredlocks OC'ing in a local Walmart the other day, nobody paid any more attention than I did, ie: Look to ascertain if any evil intent was afoot. That must have taken 1-2 seconds, then 3-5 more to see if anybody nearby was 'freaking out'. Answer was 'No' to both questions, so I went back to shopping.

Even when I see the occasional OC of a long gun, my interest is only to ascertain intent.

That said, even though illegal, I have been on country 2 lane roads and gone around a curve to see a hunt club lined along the road with weapons and attention focused across the road. I pay attetion them to see if they're paying attention to traffic crossing the firing lanes. Inevery case like that so far, I've never seen any of them taking true aim and not pointing skyward at the approach of traffic, so I and the family never felt threatened.

[Jim March]

OC of a handgun and OC of a rifle are two totally different things. Rifles are going to scare, UNLESS they're in the context of an obvious organized protest for specific goals.

The Texas OC crowd are pushed into rifles because of the laws there. In my view what they all need to do is go get percussion wheelguns for about $250 a pop and OC those, which is legal in Texas. It's also legal to OC a percussion piece while CCWing something more modern.

That would go over better than rifles and shotties.

[Tom Servo]

Guys, this thread is about Tennessee law, not Texas law. Nor is it about the merits of open carry in general.

We've already got threads for that. Let's not divert this one.