90 gr bullet in +9mm+P

Tinbucket · July 25, 2017, 02:51 PM

I would like to load some 9mm 90 grain bullets to +p+ velocities.
Who's bullet, powder and what primer.
I don't anticipate firing a thousand rounds in a match.
Mostly in my HP and carbine.
Anyone have a published load for this round?
And do you use sealer to keep the bullet from creeping in the case?
Do you us a hard primer?
In my HP I still us factory springs.
It's about time to change them.
Do you us a three spring package, single or double and what weight, and a better than average source?

rock185 · July 25, 2017, 03:32 PM

Tinbucket, I've loaded 9mm for a very long time. I would respectfully suggest that you consult some of the reloading manuals. You will find some very energetic loads listed with 90 grain bullets. Were I doing what you suggest, I would would start with loads listed before going straight to something like +P+. The Brian Enos site may have information pertinent to what you're attempting.

kmw1954 · July 25, 2017, 08:02 PM

Best I can offer is Western Powders has some load data for the Hornady 90gr +p.

jmorris · July 26, 2017, 07:16 AM

Quote:

I would like to load some 9mm 90 grain bullets to +p+ velocities.

How fast is that?

The only thing you know about +p+ loads is that they are over +p pressures. So technically if you blew the firearm apart and the bullet never left the barrel, that would be a zero FPS +P+ load.

Tsquared · July 26, 2017, 10:44 AM

Since +P+ is not a SAAMI standard it can be whatever is above +P till the gun blows up. Buffalo Bore has some 95gr +P+ that they rate at 1500fps. They also have 115gr +P+ rated at 1400fps. I am not a big fan of pushing a 9mm that fast unless it is a 38 Super or 357SIG.

The only thing I have seen that has 90gr info is MD Smith's data where he lists 1380fps as a max load using HS-6. http://www.reloadammo.com/9mloads.htm
Use at your own risk.

BTW: I turned a good HP into a pile of junk back in the early 80's when I was loading for max velocity 9mm with just 4000 rounds. I was not loading to +P but to standard 9mm max recommended loads.

T. O'Heir · July 26, 2017, 01:55 PM

"...+p+ velocities..." +P and +P+ is about pressure not velocity.
There's one 90 grain +P load on Aliant's site that uses a Gold Dot. You won't find +P+ data in manuals because manuals follow SAAMI specs religiously.
"...sealer to keep the bullet from creeping in the case..." No "sealer" will do that. A regular taper crimp does that. The primer does nothing to pressures at all.
Factory recoil spring in a BHP is 17 pounds. Wolf Springs carries 18.5, 20 and 22 pound recoil springs at $7.89 each. https://www.gunsprings.com/index.php
Read this too. http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/B...essureAmmo.htm

Tinbucket · July 26, 2017, 02:05 PM

I have many manuals, most are 40 years old or so.
Not many mention these hot loads. Some of their hot loads are less than factory, now.
I was just asking experienced Reloaders , their opinions, experiences, etc with higher performance loadings. I taper crimp but have used sealer on primers and bullets.
Taper crip just doesn't seem enough with some shell casings and some bullets.
I use FMJ mostly as all I do is target, swinging steel, etc. I have carried in the woods while hunting and as cc carrier. When I do load hp it has usually been Hornady.

I didn't notice there is a similar topic being discussed already of I might have posted my questions there

74A95 · July 26, 2017, 03:54 PM

Quote:

T. O'Heir said:
The primer does nothing to pressures at all.

Blatantly wrong.

Resources that contradict your statement:
http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammo/am...motaip_200909/
Hornady Manual 10th Edition, page 37.
Speer Manual #14, page 34.

rock185 · July 30, 2017, 01:40 AM

Tsquared, I've enjoyed shooting, reloading for, and sometimes carrying Hi Powers for many years. If you wouldn't mind sharing the information, what damage was done to your Hi
Power? Thanks

BTW Tinbucket, I looked at some of my old chronograph notes and found some data on the 90 grain CorBon 9MM+P factory load in a couple of pistols. The CorBon averaged 1486 FPS in a S&W pistol with 4" barrel, and 1634 FPS in Browning Hi Power GP model with 5.9" barrel. Perhaps similar ballistics might be something to shoot for initially.

mete · July 30, 2017, 01:47 AM

The BHPs made in the '60s was for standard pressure .Later when the 40 S&W round was introduced the 9mm was strengthened to take 9+P'. AS SAAMI doesn't specify 9+P+ stay away from it !!

Tsquared · July 30, 2017, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Tsquared, I've enjoyed shooting, reloading for, and sometimes carrying Hi Powers for many years. If you wouldn't mind sharing the information, what damage was done to your Hi Power?

The HP I had was a 60's model that had belonged to one of the deputy sheriffs in the county where I grew up. I got it in 1980 with an unknown round count. It started off with FTE and stovepiping issues after a few hundred rounds. It ended up being broken spring with the firing pin and a broken firing pin retaining plate. That was repaired by a gunsmith and he replaced all of the springs at the same time. BTW: I was using Blue Dot and cast bullets.

I put another 2k through it where it developed a lot of play in the barrel. Upon inspection the barrel lugs were rounded, slide lugs chipped/rounded, a couple of chunks were missing out of the frame rail. It still would shoot. It got progressively worse with feed and eject issues. It finally locked back when I was firing it and I could not get the slide to move. My gunsmith was able to get it apart and told me everything was pretty much garbage on the inside down to rifling almost non-existent in the barrel, a out of square frame and a cracked slide that caused the lockup. I had shot just over 4k through it.

The gunsmith blamed the Blue Dot loads that I had been shooting. That was the primary powder that my dad used for his 45, 38/357, and 9mm load. The published max load back then would just about fill a 9mm case up and I was 2/10 of a grain less than that. The current published max is what I was loading then.

Jim Watson · July 30, 2017, 10:27 AM

I read in a British publication, back when an Englishman might own a pistol, of the "infamous Two Zed ammunition with epoxied bullets that ate Brownings."

For a really extreme example, there were some Brownings beefed up and compensated for Major power factor loads in IPSC. Those did not hold up well at all.

Buffalo Bore sells a 95 gr all copper +P+ at 1500 fps in a Browning. I would consider it for emergency self defense only, it is bound to be hard on the gun.

rock185 · July 30, 2017, 04:13 PM

Tsquared, Appreciate the detailed information sir. I suspect that due to the almost non-existent rifling, previous owners had fired mega-thousands of rounds of jacketed ammo prior. I never got great accuracy with cast bullets in the Hi Power, but did load lots of cast bullets at high velocity myself, sometimes using Blue Dot. 4000 rounds of cast bullets would not have worn the rifling like that. Thanks again for the info.

July 25, 2017, 03:32 PM	#2
rock185 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2001 Location: Out West in Rim Country Posts: 1,093	Tinbucket, I've loaded 9mm for a very long time. I would respectfully suggest that you consult some of the reloading manuals. You will find some very energetic loads listed with 90 grain bullets. Were I doing what you suggest, I would would start with loads listed before going straight to something like +P+. The Brian Enos site may have information pertinent to what you're attempting. __________________ COTEP 640, NRA Life

July 26, 2017, 01:55 PM	#6
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...+p+ velocities..." +P and +P+ is about pressure not velocity. There's one 90 grain +P load on Aliant's site that uses a Gold Dot. You won't find +P+ data in manuals because manuals follow SAAMI specs religiously. "...sealer to keep the bullet from creeping in the case..." No "sealer" will do that. A regular taper crimp does that. The primer does nothing to pressures at all. Factory recoil spring in a BHP is 17 pounds. Wolf Springs carries 18.5, 20 and 22 pound recoil springs at $7.89 each. https://www.gunsprings.com/index.php Read this too. http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/B...essureAmmo.htm __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

July 30, 2017, 01:40 AM	#9
rock185 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2001 Location: Out West in Rim Country Posts: 1,093	Tsquared, I've enjoyed shooting, reloading for, and sometimes carrying Hi Powers for many years. If you wouldn't mind sharing the information, what damage was done to your Hi Power? Thanks BTW Tinbucket, I looked at some of my old chronograph notes and found some data on the 90 grain CorBon 9MM+P factory load in a couple of pistols. The CorBon averaged 1486 FPS in a S&W pistol with 4" barrel, and 1634 FPS in Browning Hi Power GP model with 5.9" barrel. Perhaps similar ballistics might be something to shoot for initially. __________________ COTEP 640, NRA Life Last edited by rock185; July 30, 2017 at 01:56 AM.

July 30, 2017, 01:47 AM	#10
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	The BHPs made in the '60s was for standard pressure .Later when the 40 S&W round was introduced the 9mm was strengthened to take 9+P'. AS SAAMI doesn't specify 9+P+ stay away from it !! __________________ And Watson , bring your revolver !

July 30, 2017, 04:13 PM	#13
rock185 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2001 Location: Out West in Rim Country Posts: 1,093	Tsquared, Appreciate the detailed information sir. I suspect that due to the almost non-existent rifling, previous owners had fired mega-thousands of rounds of jacketed ammo prior. I never got great accuracy with cast bullets in the Hi Power, but did load lots of cast bullets at high velocity myself, sometimes using Blue Dot. 4000 rounds of cast bullets would not have worn the rifling like that. Thanks again for the info. __________________ COTEP 640, NRA Life

July 25, 2017, 02:51 PM	#1
Tinbucket Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2015 Posts: 355	90 gr bullet in +9mm+P I would like to load some 9mm 90 grain bullets to +p+ velocities. Who's bullet, powder and what primer. I don't anticipate firing a thousand rounds in a match. Mostly in my HP and carbine. Anyone have a published load for this round? And do you use sealer to keep the bullet from creeping in the case? Do you us a hard primer? In my HP I still us factory springs. It's about time to change them. Do you us a three spring package, single or double and what weight, and a better than average source?

July 25, 2017, 08:02 PM	#3
kmw1954 Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2016 Location: SE Wisconsin Posts: 1,524	Best I can offer is Western Powders has some load data for the Hornady 90gr +p.

July 26, 2017, 10:44 AM	#5
Tsquared Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2016 Location: NE Atlanta Posts: 337	Since +P+ is not a SAAMI standard it can be whatever is above +P till the gun blows up. Buffalo Bore has some 95gr +P+ that they rate at 1500fps. They also have 115gr +P+ rated at 1400fps. I am not a big fan of pushing a 9mm that fast unless it is a 38 Super or 357SIG. The only thing I have seen that has 90gr info is MD Smith's data where he lists 1380fps as a max load using HS-6. http://www.reloadammo.com/9mloads.htm Use at your own risk. BTW: I turned a good HP into a pile of junk back in the early 80's when I was loading for max velocity 9mm with just 4000 rounds. I was not loading to +P but to standard 9mm max recommended loads.

July 26, 2017, 02:05 PM	#7
Tinbucket Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2015 Posts: 355	I have many manuals, most are 40 years old or so. Not many mention these hot loads. Some of their hot loads are less than factory, now. I was just asking experienced Reloaders , their opinions, experiences, etc with higher performance loadings. I taper crimp but have used sealer on primers and bullets. Taper crip just doesn't seem enough with some shell casings and some bullets. I use FMJ mostly as all I do is target, swinging steel, etc. I have carried in the woods while hunting and as cc carrier. When I do load hp it has usually been Hornady. I didn't notice there is a similar topic being discussed already of I might have posted my questions there

July 30, 2017, 10:27 AM	#12
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,546	I read in a British publication, back when an Englishman might own a pistol, of the "infamous Two Zed ammunition with epoxied bullets that ate Brownings." For a really extreme example, there were some Brownings beefed up and compensated for Major power factor loads in IPSC. Those did not hold up well at all. Buffalo Bore sells a 95 gr all copper +P+ at 1500 fps in a Browning. I would consider it for emergency self defense only, it is bound to be hard on the gun.