308 LC Primed Pull Down Brass w Powder Residue

[The Old Salt]

I have 200 hundred LC primed pull down brass with powder residue particles struck to the inside the cases. Tough to clean out. Don't know what the primers are so not good for load developement. I want to fire the primers and burn out the residue without waisting a pound of powder and bullets. Retired and don't want to waist what time and money I may have left in this life.

Is the promer hot enough itself to do the job of burning out the residue? If so I think I could set up a noise reducer like a bucket full of fiberglass insulation to fire them into here at home to reduce noise.

Or do I have to do something like load them with a 45 LC load of Unique (8g) with tissue over powder, cream of wheat fill, and top capped of with tissue? 1. Which means range trip. 2. 8g Unique? OK, to much, to little? (Why Unique, I have it)

Would the 45 LC loading be sufficient to form the case closer to my chamber? Making the range trip have added value.

Thought I would ask here before I tried anything. Always get good, helpful responses here.

Thx in advance to anyone who shares knowledge.

[The Old Salt]

Update ...

Made the noise muffler I mentioned and it works quite well. The primer just makes a very low dull pop. But it does not burn the powder particles stuck on the inside walls of the case neck. Bear in mind it's not much, half dozen particles or so, but it doe not burn. May pop a dozen primers, decap them and run them in the ultra sound clearner and see how they come out.

[bfoosh006]

Maybe a smaller stiff bristled "bottle" brush would work ?

[jpx2rk]

Search the reloading forum for removing live primers, it can be done, just be a little extra careful. I've done a few, just not 200.

[Reloadron]

As to the primers you can pop them or run them through a resizing or decapping die slow and easy. The powder flakes? I would chuck up a .40 caliber nylon or brass brush in a drill and run the brush in and out with the drill mounted and holding the cases. You want a long brush and not a short handgun brush. That's about how I have cleaned cases on the inside.

Ron

[CarJunkieLS1]

Bent pipe cleaner may work quite well for cleaning the powder residue out. I'd imagine that wet tumbling in stainless media will work also.

[Reloadron]

I like the pipe cleaner. That would work for a few stubborn kernels.

Ron

[Mobuck]

Run the cases in a tumbler for 15 minutes with clean media. Just make sure the flashholes are clear before charging. Nothing super difficult about that.

[44 AMP]

Run the cases in a tumbler for 15 minutes...

OR, get a nylon mesh bag (like onions come in) with holes the cases can't get through, then toss them in the dishwasher. THEN tumble when dry, if needed.

[briandg]

Empty your tumbler. Run it empty with the brass in it that's going to hammer that powder loose. Check the cases.

In any case, it's an appropriate powder. If you fired them with minimum or a bit under, you should be alright even with the few extra granules.

[Unclenick]

T.O.S.,

The only time I've ever seen powder sticky is when it is breaking down. This produces acids that promote corrosion, so I think there may be a little brass corrosion under the grains. It's not likely enough to affect case usability, but is something you want to get rid of to stop the corrosion process from going further.

If you only have a dozen grains, even if it still fires after deteriorating that far, it won't likely have a significant effect on your loads. You could brush them loose if you want to, but if a few stay put, I would just start your load work up and see if the much higher heat and pressure doesn't burn them off. If it doesn't, you can go to a magnifying glass and an O-ring pick or a dental pick to force them off. Afterward, I would put a teaspoon or two of citric acid (sold for canning, aka sour salt in kosher shops, and also as Lemishine dishwasher cleaner) in a plastic bucket with a gallon of water and just set them in it for fifteen minutes to an hour or so (inspect to determine when they are clean). Add a little dish washing liquid if you want to. The citric acid will remove all brass oxides and stop corrosion. It also leaves the surface passivated so it doesn't corrode readily.

[The Old Salt]

Thanks to all for all the ideas. Will post up what I end up doing and the results.

The brass is LC pull down so what ever process Lake City arsonal uses to either set or pull their bullets results in a sticky residue in the case necks which attrecks about 0.1g of powder sticking in the necks of the pulled apart cases.

[44 AMP]

The only time I've ever seen powder sticky is when it is breaking down....

I agree, when powder breaks down (deteriorates) that's what it does.

HOWEVER, on re-reading the OP, and the most recent post, I have a different idea, and its not the powder.

The brass is LC pull down so what ever process Lake City arsonal uses to either set or pull their bullets results in a sticky residue in the case necks which attrecks about 0.1g of powder sticking in the necks of the pulled apart cases.

This is not a degraded powder issue. It is the residue of the sealant used being sticky enough to trap a few kernels (grains by size and shape, not grain weight) of powder.

Military ammo is sealed, on both ends, for reliability. I do not know the actual compounds used, but have read many, many times over the years about them, and they are usually described as a "lacquer" for the primer sealant, and "asphaltum gum" for the bullet sealant.

One does not see this issue with fired brass, because the sealant is burned/cooked by the powder charge to the point where any remaining residue is no longer "sticky". Popping off primers through the empty case simply doesn't achieve the same effect, as all the heat & flame simply goes down the middle of the case, and there is nothing to direct it to the inside of the case neck.

The only problem I see here is that you don't want to crunch kernels of powder between the case neck and the expander ball or bullet. Wash them out, (a drop of Dawn in a pan of water works wonders!) scrub them loose with a brush if needed. Tumbling might do it, depending on how "well stuck" they are, dust from the media should coat any remaining sealant residue, making it non- or less sticky.

I do believe that the first actual firing will "cure" the problem for good.

[Unclenick]

The seal is pitch (asphaltum), the same material used as etch resist by artists hand engraving plates. It dissolves in mineral spirits fairly quickly. If that's the residue you thought was powder, then it won't burn out. You find it in fired military cases.

To rid yourself of the sealant, just decap the fired primers you are making and invert the cases into a tray with enough odorless mineral spirits in it to cover the shoulder (in case some got down into the when the bullet was seated. After half an hour, see if a Q-tip doesn't remove any remaining traces.

[Slamfire]

This is not a degraded powder issue. It is the residue of the sealant used being sticky enough to trap a few kernels (grains by size and shape, not grain weight) of powder.

You could be right, you could be wrong. It could be powder grains sticking to the asphalt, but, this ammunition was removed from inventory because it was past its shelf life. And what goes wrong is the gun powder. And when gun powder deteriorates, sometimes it gums up.

And if the gunpowder had deteriorated to the point it was a gummy substance, I would not fire any of this brass because the nitric acid gas that comes out of deteriorating gunpowder attacks cartridge brass. I have picked up 223 pull down brass that cracked right through the case head, blowing the AR15 magazine out of the gun, spilling its contents all over the firing point. Another of the shooters had purchased LC 223 brass from the same source and told me he had experienced the same failure mechanism.

[The Old Salt]

Roger on the "Asphaltum". Guey stuff. I am scraping the powder out of the necks. Bore brush in an electric drill won't get it. Then I am going to load them with a milder loading and shoot them. Chrony will tell all.

Thanks again to all who contributed.

[Don Fischer]

Not sure what LC pull down is? I've removed live primer's from case's before with no problem. But I have never attempted doing a crimped in military primer. Primers as expensive as they are are not that expensive. I'd simply pop them all off then remove and replace them. Sometime's saving a nickle can be expensive!

[Unclenick]

Originally Posted by The Old Salt

Roger on the "Asphaltum". Guey stuff. I am scraping the powder out of the necks. Bore brush in an electric drill won't get it.

Seriously, try the paint thinner. It'll amaze you how quickly it just dissolves out.

[44 AMP]

I don't know if it will, but WD-40 removes a lot of tarry sticky gluey type stuff. Might give it try...

Not all ammo that is surplused as past its "pull date" is bad, but some is, and any of it CAN be.

A friend bought 500rnds of 7.62 NATO "surplus", and sight unseen. The stuff turned out to be loose packed in a plastic sack inside a box, and was dirty. Dirty as in sand and dust. Headstamp indicated Israeli manufacture, 79-81 dates.

We fired 100 rnds through one of his ARs. Every round that fired, fired normally and hit the 100yd gong, with boring regularity.

However, we had 11 failure to fire, and 7 cases that did fire, and split near the head. I pulled down the remaining 400 (and the duds) with a Lyman orange hammer. In many of the cases, the powder HAD OBVIOUSLY deteriorated.

Lighter than normal color, clumps of powder stuck to the base of the bullet, and many bullets showed corrosion on the bases. I believe the split cases were also caused by the deteriorating powder attacking the brass.

Tossed the powder and the brass, cleaned up the bullets and they were ok. None of the brass had powder stick to the inside of the case necks, so I don't think deteriorated powder is the issue with your cases.

[Unclenick]

WD 40 probably will remove it, but it leaves a residual anti-corrosion coating behind. Mineral spirits will dry up completely in a day.

Slamfire had some good posts on a Navy study. A lot of 7.62 M80 ammo that produced something like 48,000 CUP peak pressure, IIRC, was heated for six months in about 140°C. The pressure went up to 70,000+ CUP. Apparently the breakdown can attack the deterrent coatings faster than the nitrocellulose breaks down, leaving your powder with a faster burn rate than it had originally.

If you leave it long enough, the powder will get weaker and then the pressure will come down again. But I don't want to mess with it and have pulled most of the surplus ammo I had and won't shoot what I haven't got around to pulling. Some of it seemed hot twenty-five years ago, so I just decided it was time to let go.