I FOUND PRIMERS! Now what?

flintlock.50 · January 19, 2013, 02:28 PM

OK, a bit over dramatic maybe. But small rifle primers have been generally unavailable here for quite a while. Today I unexpectedly found Remington primers and bought 2000.

I've loaded .30-06 for decades. Now I'm ready to try .223, though my cases are all 5.56mm. I bought my rifle the day after the election. Since ammo has been scarce I've only fired one load, PMC 55gr FMJ, which it seemed to shoot pretty well. My rifle has a 1 in 7 twist.

I'm looking for good bullet/powder starting recommendations. I'm not going to shoot competitively, so I'm not looking for the ultimate in accuracy. I want something that's potent enough for personal defense, accurate enough for some metallic silhouette plinking and maybe an occasional coyote.

Thanks!

chiefr · January 19, 2013, 03:57 PM

Two powders I like for the 223 are H335 & Ramshot TAC. I use standard 55gr bullets or 62/3 gr for the longer shots.
Hopefully, if you are fortunate, you will be able to find bullets and powders.
Right now, all 223 components are scare & if you find any, expect to pay premium prices.
.

Ifishsum · January 19, 2013, 05:28 PM

Lots of powders will work well with .223 - right now you might just have to see what you can get your hands on and check that it's appropriate for .223/5.56. Many will work, but the most popular ones are fairly scarce at the moment. BL-C(2) and H335 are my favorites but there are many other good choices - H322, H4895, AA2015, AA2230, W748, Ramshot TAC just to name a few.

flintlock.50 · January 19, 2013, 07:37 PM

Data in my Speer reloading manual shows a magnum primer with H335 and BLC2 powders. Are magnum primers generally used with these powders? My primers are Remington 6 1/2 (non magnum). Any comments on use of standard primers?

m&p45acp10+1 · January 19, 2013, 08:14 PM

Flintlock before using those primers carefuly read the package. You may not be able to load .223 Rem with those. If you do I assure you there will be problems. Namely pierced primers.

The standard non magnum Remington primers were developed for low pressure loads like .22 Hornet. At .223 Rem pressure they will pierce. I had 2 pierce in .221 Fireball loads.

It will say something on the box for the standard small rifle primers. It was printed on the side of the box for the brick that I bought.

I used them for small pistol loads which they worked great for.

flintlock.50 · January 19, 2013, 08:25 PM

Thanks for the warning. I did find it on the box... in small print, not very prominent.

Looks like I have lots of pistol primers now. And I thought I had found something special. Again, thanks for the warning.

j357 · January 19, 2013, 11:41 PM

I found some very useful information in the following thread. I personally have been using the CCI 400 in .223, mild loads 23-23.5g IMR 4895 w/ 55g FMJ BTs, and have seen no indication of piercing in my auto feeder. I do plan on switching over to CCI 41s or BR4s when I use up my last 2000 CCI 400s. I figure once you know to avoid a potential problem, you should take positive action to do so. My choice is to avoid going higher on the load for now and switch over. YMMV

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=505098

CherokeeT · January 20, 2013, 12:05 AM

Since 1975 I have used CCI standard small rifle primers in all my 5.56 loads, many, many thousands, never had a problem and the loads are accurate. I use H335 almost exclusively, but also tried some of the other powders which were OK. I keep coming back to H335

valleyforge.1777 · January 20, 2013, 08:49 AM

Flintlock, you can always trade those primers with someone else who needs small rifle / small pistol.

Does anyone use IMR 3031 for .223? The Lyman #49 manual lists it as one of the better powders for 223 but I never seem to see or hear anyone talking about that powder.

FALPhil · January 20, 2013, 09:08 AM

Flintlock, I find that H335 and W748 give me the best performance and accuracy in 223/5.56. Generally, I use 55 grain bullets in my varmint rifle (CZ527) and 62-64 grain bullets in my ARs. I have used both magnum and non-magnum primers with H335. I see a little more velocity with the mag primers, but not much. Other than that, I don't see a difference.

kraigwy · January 20, 2013, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Does anyone use IMR 3031 for .223?

The Army does.

The Army used a Mann Accurach Device to test their ammo. The one for the 5.56 is a 1:7 twist barrel on a Remington Action. Super tight chamber, and 18 inches long.

To test the device they load 25 grns of 3031 in a Remington Case, match primers and 52 grn match bullets.

The grouping averages about .18

**Unclenick** · January 20, 2013, 12:02 PM

Yes. 3031 has good case fill, and better insensitivity to being dispensed with small charge weight errors than some, so it responds well to being dispensed by volume. Works better with light bullets than Varget and the 4895's, IME. I have previously suggested people try 3031 and also try Reloader 10X for bullets 55 grain and lighter to see which one your gun likes better.

Flintlock.50,

The 6½'s are thin and they are mild. I used them with mild loads of 4198 in .222 Remington for a lot of years and they did fine there, drilling many a cloverleaf. In .223 you could use them in a bolt gun for loads up to around 45 kpsi, but I would not push them beyond that. Good enough for .357 Mag and 9 mm loads, though, so if you have either you can shoot them up that way.

In the AR I would avoid the 6½ because the firing mechanism is made energetic enough for military spec primers at their lowest sensitivity limit (3 standard deviations from an already higher-than-commercial ignition threshold in a height drop test) plus about a 20% margin. That could be a hard on the light primer cup, not to mention added risk for slamfires. It's also not worth gas cutting your bolt face prematurely just to avoid getting something more appropriate.

These days you have three small rifle military spec primers available. The CCI #41 and Tulammo KVB556M are magnum primers and the Federal GMM205MAR (the last two letters making it distinct from their regular GMM205M) for a match standard strength primer.

golfnutrlv · January 20, 2013, 02:22 PM

So this thread is interesting....

What does Remington load there factory .223 with??? Another primer brand?

Very interesting information about 3031 as well. Think I will work up a load with it, since I have a bunch of it for .303 British, and H335 is virtually unobtainable right now.

Anyone have any issues or complaints in a 16" barrel with 3031? Would be a 1:9 gg Grain FMJ.

flintlock.50 · January 20, 2013, 02:47 PM

Evidently Remington uses their 7-1/2 primer, listed as "small rifle bench rest". My Nosler manual data used the 7-1/2 primer in .223.

January 19, 2013, 02:28 PM	#1
flintlock.50 Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2009 Posts: 233	I FOUND PRIMERS! Now what? OK, a bit over dramatic maybe. But small rifle primers have been generally unavailable here for quite a while. Today I unexpectedly found Remington primers and bought 2000. I've loaded .30-06 for decades. Now I'm ready to try .223, though my cases are all 5.56mm. I bought my rifle the day after the election. Since ammo has been scarce I've only fired one load, PMC 55gr FMJ, which it seemed to shoot pretty well. My rifle has a 1 in 7 twist. I'm looking for good bullet/powder starting recommendations. I'm not going to shoot competitively, so I'm not looking for the ultimate in accuracy. I want something that's potent enough for personal defense, accurate enough for some metallic silhouette plinking and maybe an occasional coyote. Thanks! __________________ NRA Benefactor member; NRA rifle and home firearm safety instructor; NMLRA member; NMLRA instructor for rifle, pistol and shotgun A government that takes from Peter to pay Paul can always count on Paul's vote!

January 19, 2013, 08:14 PM	#5
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,930	Flintlock before using those primers carefuly read the package. You may not be able to load .223 Rem with those. If you do I assure you there will be problems. Namely pierced primers. The standard non magnum Remington primers were developed for low pressure loads like .22 Hornet. At .223 Rem pressure they will pierce. I had 2 pierce in .221 Fireball loads. It will say something on the box for the standard small rifle primers. It was printed on the side of the box for the brick that I bought. I used them for small pistol loads which they worked great for. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.

January 19, 2013, 08:25 PM	#6
flintlock.50 Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2009 Posts: 233	Thanks for the warning. I did find it on the box... in small print, not very prominent. Looks like I have lots of pistol primers now. And I thought I had found something special. Again, thanks for the warning. __________________ NRA Benefactor member; NRA rifle and home firearm safety instructor; NMLRA member; NMLRA instructor for rifle, pistol and shotgun A government that takes from Peter to pay Paul can always count on Paul's vote!

January 20, 2013, 12:05 AM	#8
CherokeeT Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2008 Location: Medina, Ohio Posts: 273	Since 1975 I have used CCI standard small rifle primers in all my 5.56 loads, many, many thousands, never had a problem and the loads are accurate. I use H335 almost exclusively, but also tried some of the other powders which were OK. I keep coming back to H335 __________________ God Bless America US Army, NRA Endowment TSRA Life, SASS

January 20, 2013, 12:02 PM	#12
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	Yes. 3031 has good case fill, and better insensitivity to being dispensed with small charge weight errors than some, so it responds well to being dispensed by volume. Works better with light bullets than Varget and the 4895's, IME. I have previously suggested people try 3031 and also try Reloader 10X for bullets 55 grain and lighter to see which one your gun likes better. Flintlock.50, The 6½'s are thin and they are mild. I used them with mild loads of 4198 in .222 Remington for a lot of years and they did fine there, drilling many a cloverleaf. In .223 you could use them in a bolt gun for loads up to around 45 kpsi, but I would not push them beyond that. Good enough for .357 Mag and 9 mm loads, though, so if you have either you can shoot them up that way. In the AR I would avoid the 6½ because the firing mechanism is made energetic enough for military spec primers at their lowest sensitivity limit (3 standard deviations from an already higher-than-commercial ignition threshold in a height drop test) plus about a 20% margin. That could be a hard on the light primer cup, not to mention added risk for slamfires. It's also not worth gas cutting your bolt face prematurely just to avoid getting something more appropriate. These days you have three small rifle military spec primers available. The CCI #41 and Tulammo KVB556M are magnum primers and the Federal GMM205MAR (the last two letters making it distinct from their regular GMM205M) for a match standard strength primer. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle Last edited by Unclenick; January 20, 2013 at 12:09 PM.

January 19, 2013, 03:57 PM	#2
chiefr Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: AR Posts: 1,401	Two powders I like for the 223 are H335 & Ramshot TAC. I use standard 55gr bullets or 62/3 gr for the longer shots. Hopefully, if you are fortunate, you will be able to find bullets and powders. Right now, all 223 components are scare & if you find any, expect to pay premium prices. .

January 19, 2013, 05:28 PM	#3
Ifishsum Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,033	Lots of powders will work well with .223 - right now you might just have to see what you can get your hands on and check that it's appropriate for .223/5.56. Many will work, but the most popular ones are fairly scarce at the moment. BL-C(2) and H335 are my favorites but there are many other good choices - H322, H4895, AA2015, AA2230, W748, Ramshot TAC just to name a few.

January 19, 2013, 07:37 PM	#4
flintlock.50 Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2009 Posts: 233	Data in my Speer reloading manual shows a magnum primer with H335 and BLC2 powders. Are magnum primers generally used with these powders? My primers are Remington 6 1/2 (non magnum). Any comments on use of standard primers? __________________ NRA Benefactor member; NRA rifle and home firearm safety instructor; NMLRA member; NMLRA instructor for rifle, pistol and shotgun A government that takes from Peter to pay Paul can always count on Paul's vote!

January 19, 2013, 11:41 PM	#7
j357 Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2009 Location: Liberty Twp, OH Posts: 283	I found some very useful information in the following thread. I personally have been using the CCI 400 in .223, mild loads 23-23.5g IMR 4895 w/ 55g FMJ BTs, and have seen no indication of piercing in my auto feeder. I do plan on switching over to CCI 41s or BR4s when I use up my last 2000 CCI 400s. I figure once you know to avoid a potential problem, you should take positive action to do so. My choice is to avoid going higher on the load for now and switch over. YMMV http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=505098

January 20, 2013, 08:49 AM	#9
valleyforge.1777 Senior Member Join Date: June 2, 2011 Posts: 177	Flintlock, you can always trade those primers with someone else who needs small rifle / small pistol. Does anyone use IMR 3031 for .223? The Lyman #49 manual lists it as one of the better powders for 223 but I never seem to see or hear anyone talking about that powder.

January 20, 2013, 09:08 AM	#10
FALPhil Senior Member Join Date: September 10, 2007 Location: Racoon City Posts: 934	Flintlock, I find that H335 and W748 give me the best performance and accuracy in 223/5.56. Generally, I use 55 grain bullets in my varmint rifle (CZ527) and 62-64 grain bullets in my ARs. I have used both magnum and non-magnum primers with H335. I see a little more velocity with the mag primers, but not much. Other than that, I don't see a difference.

January 20, 2013, 02:22 PM	#13
golfnutrlv Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2008 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 1,347	So this thread is interesting.... What does Remington load there factory .223 with??? Another primer brand? Very interesting information about 3031 as well. Think I will work up a load with it, since I have a bunch of it for .303 British, and H335 is virtually unobtainable right now. Anyone have any issues or complaints in a 16" barrel with 3031? Would be a 1:9 gg Grain FMJ. __________________ ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ VIGILIA PRETIUM LIBERTATIS "The price of liberty is vigilance" America is at an awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards.

January 20, 2013, 02:47 PM	#14
flintlock.50 Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2009 Posts: 233	Evidently Remington uses their 7-1/2 primer, listed as "small rifle bench rest". My Nosler manual data used the 7-1/2 primer in .223. __________________ NRA Benefactor member; NRA rifle and home firearm safety instructor; NMLRA member; NMLRA instructor for rifle, pistol and shotgun A government that takes from Peter to pay Paul can always count on Paul's vote!