Return-To-Zero Disconnecting Scope Mounts

studman5578 · December 11, 2009, 12:54 AM

I am in the process of building my black gun (my first and I just put the lower and stock together yesterday!) that will be chambered in 223 rem. and am really considering the flattop upper with a (and this is what the post is about to critique/tip/criticize away):

-Flip Up Front and Rear Sights

-Moderately Powerful (3-9 or better) scope with a mount that I can remove and replace while keeping my zero.

Have any of you had any experience with this type of a setup/ know anything about the return to zero scope mounts? I feel like it can be faulty just by its nature, but I like the idea of having the choice.

My use for the gun is plinking and short/moderate range shooting.

studman5578 · December 11, 2009, 12:57 AM

Price is also sort of an issue, I'd like to keep it relatively low cost, but if its unavoidable, I'd rater go big the first time and only build one (or at least that's what I tell myself now

)

azredhawk44 · December 11, 2009, 01:15 AM

Only one's I've used were Leupold QRW rings, on an M1A Scout with an ARMS #18 mount.

They were supposed to come off and go back on to be within a minute of angle of the previous installation's alignment.

They did well enough. The rifle was never more than a 1.5MOA rifle as far as I could get it and I only took the scope off a couple of times. I still have them, though I don't have the rifle anymore. I intend to re-use them in the future.

Desertguns · December 11, 2009, 02:45 AM

Preface: I favor one-piece mounts - the fewer moving parts, the better...especially if you're gonna remove the thing and put it back on a lot.

So... For around $75? Burris P.E.P.R., no personal experience but both of my "shootin' buddies" use em, they swear by it...

Me? For about $160, I got the American Defense AD-Recon S in 1" for my flattop AR, and the same in 30mm for my M1A (using a SADLAK Industries Steel Base).

For $200 or so, LaRue is great too.
How much did you say you wanted to spend?

studman5578 · December 11, 2009, 02:51 AM

I'm kind of building this over a long period of time, the most I could probably bring myself to part with at one time is around $150-200 as a maximum.

studman5578 · December 11, 2009, 03:10 AM

I looked at the different mounts and I'm seeing mixed results as far as the scope being extended or right over where the base mounts to the rail. Is there a need for it to be extended? I'm guessing it depends on the scope and eye relief.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a long distance (-ish) scope has a shorter eye relief than, say, a tactical scope would. Thus, if that is what I wanted, I should get the extended mount? Also, does having a raised scope make a difference with an AR? Obviously there aren't bolt clearance issues as with a bolt-action, but how would I know if I needed a raised scope or not? Thanks for any help and sorry for all the questions!

If you guys couldn't already tell, i've been thinking about accessorizing (haha, never thought i would use that word about anything I'D ever have) my AR and have built up quite a stockpile of questions. Any help would be great!

NSO_w/_SIG · December 11, 2009, 03:43 AM

Buy once, cry once, get the Larue. Sorry to use the cliche'.

Here is an example of their ACOG mount and it's return to zero test.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.htm...f=219&t=171278

They have mounts for pretty much any optic you could want.

Bartholomew Roberts · December 11, 2009, 07:45 AM

I've used the ARMS and Larue mounts for the ACOG and I've done the same test (shoot once, remove mount, shoot next shot, remove mount) and if there is a shift in zero for the Larue mount, it is less than my natural error as a shooter - so good enough for my purposes

studman5578 · December 11, 2009, 11:26 AM

Thanks for all your help guys! I'll be sure to post a ton of pix once I get my AR put together

DBAR · December 11, 2009, 11:47 AM

Quote:

For $200 or so, LaRue is great too.
How much did you say you wanted to spend?

If I had it to do over again, I'd go with the Larue. I decided to go with Burris quick release rings.

The only advantage to the quick release rings is that you can switch scopes. I like a Leupold 1-4 for quick "3 gun" type shooting, and I like the Nikon 4-12 for shooting out to 600+ yards. If you get a good riser like the GG&G extended riser, you can switch back and forth.

With the Nikon 4-12

With the Leupold 1-4

I hope that helps a little.

DBAR

sneaky pete · December 11, 2009, 07:11 PM

Old Sneaky Pete here: I've only used The Warne Q/R rings-on a m96/36 6.5 Swed Mauser, 3 AR15s, an m48 8MM Yugo Mauser, a .22Lr Mauser, a Weatherby Vangard 30-06, and my '43 Springfield M-1 Garand W/a Scout Mount and in EVERY instance when I removed the scope and then re-installed it mypont of impact was within 1/4" or less at 100 yds. That's either1 click or 2 click depending if the scope is 1/4MOA or 1/8MOA. If I ever need more rings which I will(I'm building a .50Beowulf) I won't go with anything other than WARNE Q/R rings. THANX--SNEAKY

Picher · December 11, 2009, 07:51 PM

All my mounts are Weaver Detachable Top Mounts. They're cheap and they work. The newest one's I've used have four screws and I got them from Brownells. I don't like the ones that have four bands. Simmons and Weaver have them, but the ones I've tried are junk. Stick with the reliable ones.

I file the small bumps off the inside of the rings, where the screw holes are stamped. They're great otherwise and work as well as any of the high-priced models, but just don't look as cool. I've never had one fail to return to zero, break, or cause poor groups. I've probably mounted two hundred or more scopes for myself and customers and Weaver Top Mounts always work. I can't say the same about dovetail mounts.

The Grizzman · December 11, 2009, 09:10 PM

Here's another vote for Larue. I've got a couple of LT-104s, and they do retain zero pretty well. When I go to the range next (hopefully next weekend), I can perform my own repeatability test.

They are not cheap, but if it ever fails, Larue will replace it. They will also allow you to mount a BUIS (I use Troy) under the ocular lens.

Generally, the eye relief differences between quality long range scopes is small. Typically, the ocular end of the scope is positioned even with the rear end of the charging handle to provide the correct eye relief. In this position, there isn't enough rail to mount a typical 3-9X scope with separate rings.

Having a flat top upper will give you the option to properly employ a red dot sight in the future if you so desire.

Compared to your scope decision, your mount decision should be a piece of cake. For close to middle range work, the 1-4 X 24 class of scope is gaining significant popularity.

Technosavant · December 11, 2009, 09:19 PM

RTZ mounts?

The only name I involve for them is LaRue. They aren't cheap, but they ARE awesome. Better to buy what will certainly work first rather than buy cheap then wish you bought good. Others might work just fine, I have nothing to say good or bad about others, but I can vouch for LaRue.

gb_in_ga · December 11, 2009, 09:36 PM

The only experience I've had with quick release rings has been with the Leupold QRW rings that are on my Marlin 336, scope is a Leupold VX-I 2-7x33. The work pretty well, actually. About 1/4 MOA, which considering that I'm talking about a 336 .30-30 which is good for about 1 MOA is good enough.

RT · December 12, 2009, 07:29 AM

LaRue

http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetac...y=Optic+Mounts

sholling · December 12, 2009, 11:58 AM

Do it right the first time and buy LaRue. As long as you put them back in the same slot it should return to within 1 MOA of zero. That's as good as it gets. This is my 6.8 SPC with a Burris XTR 1-4x24 in a LaRue.

studman5578 · December 12, 2009, 01:21 PM

Very nice. That is the exact optic setup that I want. I'm glad to see that somebody has tried the setup. Do you like that config.?

sholling · December 12, 2009, 03:27 PM

I like it a lot. You can remove or reinstall the LaRue mount with no tools in 10-15 seconds with a bit of practice. The Burris XTR has fantastic optics. However it's not a target sight - it's a tactical sight. I have both the Burris/LaRue setup and an EOTech 512 for that rifle.

Relentless Pursuit · December 13, 2009, 01:32 PM

The Larue echo is very well founded.................

December 11, 2009, 12:57 AM	#2
studman5578 Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2009 Location: Varying between 1 and 3 hours from Chicago Posts: 152	Price is also sort of an issue, I'd like to keep it relatively low cost, but if its unavoidable, I'd rater go big the first time and only build one (or at least that's what I tell myself now ) __________________ Rev 5:13 "To him who sits on the throne and the Lamb be praise honor and glory and power, for ever and ever"

December 11, 2009, 02:51 AM	#5
studman5578 Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2009 Location: Varying between 1 and 3 hours from Chicago Posts: 152	I'm kind of building this over a long period of time, the most I could probably bring myself to part with at one time is around $150-200 as a maximum. __________________ Rev 5:13 "To him who sits on the throne and the Lamb be praise honor and glory and power, for ever and ever"

December 11, 2009, 03:10 AM	#6
studman5578 Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2009 Location: Varying between 1 and 3 hours from Chicago Posts: 152	I looked at the different mounts and I'm seeing mixed results as far as the scope being extended or right over where the base mounts to the rail. Is there a need for it to be extended? I'm guessing it depends on the scope and eye relief. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a long distance (-ish) scope has a shorter eye relief than, say, a tactical scope would. Thus, if that is what I wanted, I should get the extended mount? Also, does having a raised scope make a difference with an AR? Obviously there aren't bolt clearance issues as with a bolt-action, but how would I know if I needed a raised scope or not? Thanks for any help and sorry for all the questions! If you guys couldn't already tell, i've been thinking about accessorizing (haha, never thought i would use that word about anything I'D ever have) my AR and have built up quite a stockpile of questions. Any help would be great! __________________ Rev 5:13 "To him who sits on the throne and the Lamb be praise honor and glory and power, for ever and ever"

December 11, 2009, 11:26 AM	#9
studman5578 Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2009 Location: Varying between 1 and 3 hours from Chicago Posts: 152	Thanks for all your help guys! I'll be sure to post a ton of pix once I get my AR put together __________________ Rev 5:13 "To him who sits on the throne and the Lamb be praise honor and glory and power, for ever and ever"

December 11, 2009, 07:11 PM	#11
sneaky pete Senior Member Join Date: November 24, 2004 Location: Florida Keys Posts: 510	Try Warne Quick Release rings Old Sneaky Pete here: I've only used The Warne Q/R rings-on a m96/36 6.5 Swed Mauser, 3 AR15s, an m48 8MM Yugo Mauser, a .22Lr Mauser, a Weatherby Vangard 30-06, and my '43 Springfield M-1 Garand W/a Scout Mount and in EVERY instance when I removed the scope and then re-installed it mypont of impact was within 1/4" or less at 100 yds. That's either1 click or 2 click depending if the scope is 1/4MOA or 1/8MOA. If I ever need more rings which I will(I'm building a .50Beowulf) I won't go with anything other than WARNE Q/R rings. THANX--SNEAKY __________________ A Slave is one who is Forced to act for the benefit of another--TAXPAYER--47% of Americans Don't pay taxes. A little bit of Slavery is stll Slavery--- M/sgt GENO

December 11, 2009, 12:54 AM	#1
studman5578 Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2009 Location: Varying between 1 and 3 hours from Chicago Posts: 152	Return-To-Zero Disconnecting Scope Mounts I am in the process of building my black gun (my first and I just put the lower and stock together yesterday!) that will be chambered in 223 rem. and am really considering the flattop upper with a (and this is what the post is about to critique/tip/criticize away): -Flip Up Front and Rear Sights -Moderately Powerful (3-9 or better) scope with a mount that I can remove and replace while keeping my zero. Have any of you had any experience with this type of a setup/ know anything about the return to zero scope mounts? I feel like it can be faulty just by its nature, but I like the idea of having the choice. My use for the gun is plinking and short/moderate range shooting. __________________ Rev 5:13 "To him who sits on the throne and the Lamb be praise honor and glory and power, for ever and ever"

December 11, 2009, 01:15 AM	#3
azredhawk44 Junior member Join Date: September 28, 2005 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 6,465	Only one's I've used were Leupold QRW rings, on an M1A Scout with an ARMS #18 mount. They were supposed to come off and go back on to be within a minute of angle of the previous installation's alignment. They did well enough. The rifle was never more than a 1.5MOA rifle as far as I could get it and I only took the scope off a couple of times. I still have them, though I don't have the rifle anymore. I intend to re-use them in the future.

December 11, 2009, 02:45 AM	#4
Desertguns Member Join Date: August 21, 2009 Location: ARIZONA Posts: 39	Preface: I favor one-piece mounts - the fewer moving parts, the better...especially if you're gonna remove the thing and put it back on a lot. So... For around $75? Burris P.E.P.R., no personal experience but both of my "shootin' buddies" use em, they swear by it... Me? For about $160, I got the American Defense AD-Recon S in 1" for my flattop AR, and the same in 30mm for my M1A (using a SADLAK Industries Steel Base). For $200 or so, LaRue is great too. How much did you say you wanted to spend?

December 11, 2009, 03:43 AM	#7
NSO_w/_SIG Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2004 Posts: 553	Buy once, cry once, get the Larue. Sorry to use the cliche'. Here is an example of their ACOG mount and it's return to zero test. http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.htm...f=219&t=171278 They have mounts for pretty much any optic you could want.

December 11, 2009, 07:45 AM	#8
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	I've used the ARMS and Larue mounts for the ACOG and I've done the same test (shoot once, remove mount, shoot next shot, remove mount) and if there is a shift in zero for the Larue mount, it is less than my natural error as a shooter - so good enough for my purposes

December 11, 2009, 07:51 PM	#12
Picher Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Maine Posts: 3,694	All my mounts are Weaver Detachable Top Mounts. They're cheap and they work. The newest one's I've used have four screws and I got them from Brownells. I don't like the ones that have four bands. Simmons and Weaver have them, but the ones I've tried are junk. Stick with the reliable ones. I file the small bumps off the inside of the rings, where the screw holes are stamped. They're great otherwise and work as well as any of the high-priced models, but just don't look as cool. I've never had one fail to return to zero, break, or cause poor groups. I've probably mounted two hundred or more scopes for myself and customers and Weaver Top Mounts always work. I can't say the same about dovetail mounts.

December 11, 2009, 09:10 PM	#13
The Grizzman Junior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Location: Kansas Posts: 3	Here's another vote for Larue. I've got a couple of LT-104s, and they do retain zero pretty well. When I go to the range next (hopefully next weekend), I can perform my own repeatability test. They are not cheap, but if it ever fails, Larue will replace it. They will also allow you to mount a BUIS (I use Troy) under the ocular lens. Generally, the eye relief differences between quality long range scopes is small. Typically, the ocular end of the scope is positioned even with the rear end of the charging handle to provide the correct eye relief. In this position, there isn't enough rail to mount a typical 3-9X scope with separate rings. Having a flat top upper will give you the option to properly employ a red dot sight in the future if you so desire. Compared to your scope decision, your mount decision should be a piece of cake. For close to middle range work, the 1-4 X 24 class of scope is gaining significant popularity.

December 11, 2009, 09:19 PM	#14
Technosavant Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2007 Location: St. Louis, MO area Posts: 4,040	RTZ mounts? The only name I involve for them is LaRue. They aren't cheap, but they ARE awesome. Better to buy what will certainly work first rather than buy cheap then wish you bought good. Others might work just fine, I have nothing to say good or bad about others, but I can vouch for LaRue.

December 11, 2009, 09:36 PM	#15
gb_in_ga Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2005 Location: Pensacola, Fl Posts: 3,092	The only experience I've had with quick release rings has been with the Leupold QRW rings that are on my Marlin 336, scope is a Leupold VX-I 2-7x33. The work pretty well, actually. About 1/4 MOA, which considering that I'm talking about a 336 .30-30 which is good for about 1 MOA is good enough. __________________ COME AND TAKE IT http://www.tamu.edu/ccbn/dewitt/batgon.htm Formerly lived in Ga, but now I'm back in Tx! Aaaand, now I'm off to Fla...

December 12, 2009, 07:29 AM	#16
RT Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2000 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 2,194	LaRue http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetac...y=Optic+Mounts

December 12, 2009, 11:58 AM	#17
sholling Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 1999 Location: Hemet (middle of nowhere) California Posts: 4,261	Do it right the first time and buy LaRue. As long as you put them back in the same slot it should return to within 1 MOA of zero. That's as good as it gets. This is my 6.8 SPC with a Burris XTR 1-4x24 in a LaRue. __________________ Proud Life Member: National Rifle Association, California Rifle & Pistol Association, and the Second Amendment Foundation. Annual Member: Revolutionary War Veterans Association (Project Appleseed) and the Madison Society.

December 12, 2009, 01:21 PM	#18
studman5578 Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2009 Location: Varying between 1 and 3 hours from Chicago Posts: 152	Very nice. That is the exact optic setup that I want. I'm glad to see that somebody has tried the setup. Do you like that config.? __________________ Rev 5:13 "To him who sits on the throne and the Lamb be praise honor and glory and power, for ever and ever"

December 12, 2009, 03:27 PM	#19
sholling Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 1999 Location: Hemet (middle of nowhere) California Posts: 4,261	I like it a lot. You can remove or reinstall the LaRue mount with no tools in 10-15 seconds with a bit of practice. The Burris XTR has fantastic optics. However it's not a target sight - it's a tactical sight. I have both the Burris/LaRue setup and an EOTech 512 for that rifle. __________________ Proud Life Member: National Rifle Association, California Rifle & Pistol Association, and the Second Amendment Foundation. Annual Member: Revolutionary War Veterans Association (Project Appleseed) and the Madison Society.

December 13, 2009, 01:32 PM	#20
Relentless Pursuit Junior member Join Date: December 12, 2009 Posts: 116	The Larue echo is very well founded.................