.30-06 fit to 8x57 Mauser chamber?

Bart B. · February 8, 2013, 09:17 PM

Would someone please try to chamber a .30-06 cartridge in an 8x75 Mauser chamber?

Was told that's what the Germans did in WWII when they found ammo from Garands. I tried that decades ago and it wouldn't fit; bolt would not close at all. Now someone's telling me they've done it.

Thanks.

mehavey · February 8, 2013, 09:27 PM

The 30-06's case headspace dimension is 2.0526" -(0.0070")
The 8x57mm's is 1.8768" -(0.0070)

Can't get there from here -- the `06 is too long.
(Re SAAMI spec drawings)

tahoe2 · February 8, 2013, 09:36 PM

I had a guy tell me he used to have a 40 caliber 32 special. I just said "that's cool" knowing that some people are just " stuck on stupid "

reynolds357 · February 8, 2013, 09:42 PM

I dont know if it will work or not. My guess is that it will due to the fact that the brass of the neck of the 06 has plenty of clearance to actually go inside the rifling of the 8mm. Headspace is not a problem because the Mauser Claw will hold well enough for firing pin hit. I have a milspec 8Mauser, but dont have any WWII Milspec 06 ammo laying around. In my mind the comparison would only be valid if done with the actual ammo the claim is based on. I plan on picking up some 06 ammo from CMP for my Garands. I will see if it works when I go get it in a few weeks.

jonnyc · February 8, 2013, 09:48 PM

A .30-06 bullet will fit into an 8mm barrel, but the whole cartridge won't. As stated above, the .30-06's 63mm long case will not allow the bolt to close in the 8mm Mauser's 57mm space.

emcon5 · February 8, 2013, 09:57 PM

Not that it is a surprise, but I jut tried a Greek HXP spent case (fired in my M1) in my 1941 K98k and no effing way. Bolt sticks about 1/4" short of closing.

reynolds357 · February 8, 2013, 10:01 PM

Try a live round. The neck grew a lot on the 06 when the Garand fired it. At the least, run it through a small base die and then try it again.
That gives me an Idea. When I get to my shop Monday, I will size a piece of brass with a small base die and then see if it fits.

Malamute · February 9, 2013, 12:37 AM

No possible way. ^

The neck doesnt change that much when fired in a Garand in any event, but no amount of wanting or sizing will make an '06 round chamber in an 8mm chamber, unless you use an 8mm size die, then trim the neck waaaay back to 8mm length. The neck isnt the issue in any event, the body of the shell is quite a bit longer, as was mentioned several times.

The whole premise of the story reminds me of the story I heard years ago,.. that the Vietnamese designed the 7.62x39 round to be able to use US 5.56 ammo if they ran out, but the Americans couldnt use 7.62x39 rounds in their M-16's. The entire story throws logic and history out the window. Logic, like the Vietnamese didnt design their cartridges, it was designed many years before the 5.56 existed,, that firing a 5.56 round in a 7.62x39 chamber would be a really bad idea for several reasons,..... (yes, a 5.56 will actually chamber, sort of)

big al hunter · February 9, 2013, 03:41 AM

I think you need a big hammer to make that work.

Jim Watson · February 9, 2013, 07:04 AM

Haven't heard that one.
But there was a guy on one of the boards who would tell you with a straight face that the 7.7 Arisaka was designed so a desperate Jap could force in a captured .30-06 round.

PatientWolf · February 9, 2013, 07:56 AM

I'd guess it was more likely they used the ammo in a captured rifle and that people assumed that because they shot "found" Amman, it was in their own guns, so the story got some legs.

Art Eatman · February 9, 2013, 12:05 PM

Post-WW II re-chambering a Mauser to 8mm'06 was fairly common for reloaders. Made a $5 rifle very useful.

Slamfire · February 9, 2013, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Was told that's what the Germans did in WWII when they found ammo from Garands.

I doubt it happened.

This is a variation of a story that I heard from relatives and people I knew, in fact I heard the same thing on “Car Talk” as a puzzler, that the Japanese purposely chambered their rifle with a bullet that was larger than ours. This was so that they could shoot captured American rounds in their rifles. Of course we could not chamber captured Japanese ammunition because the bullet was too big.

Oh, how inscrutable the Orientals!

This was 100% bogus. I took a 30-06 round and not only is it too long for the magazine of a Type 99 Arisaka, it is too long for the chamber. A 30-06 won’t feed and chamber in either the 6.5 Arisaka or the 7.7 Arisaka.

If you remember, the WW2 generation were forever proving the righteousness of their war, that the enemy was really, really evil, and that the Japanese had always been planning to fight a war of aggression against America.

This is one of those stories that got bandied around by enough people that it gets accepted as fact, without anyone checking to see if it was true.

Just like the idea that greased bullets dangerously raise pressures because grease pinches the case neck.

So, how did the Swiss get away with greased bullets for over a century?

Lets not debate that here, lets keep on the topic of 30-06's in 8 X 57 Mausers.

oldgunsmith · February 9, 2013, 08:28 PM

The neck size has nothing to do with it. It's the shoulder that's in the wrong place for a .30-06 round to chamber in an 8x57. It's not rocket science.

Mobuck · February 9, 2013, 09:24 PM

In some cases it may be possible to go the other way(8mm in a 30/06) but totally IMpossible for a 30/06 to chamber in an 8x57 chamber.

mehavey · February 9, 2013, 10:54 PM

James K · February 9, 2013, 11:30 PM

.30-'06 in 8mm Mauser? No way. 8mm Mauser in .30-'06? Maybe if tolerances work just right and a lot of force is used.

.30-'06 in 7.7 Jap? Again, no way. 7.7 Jap in .30-'06? Yep, I tried it. Not only fires but shows no excess pressure signs. The only result is a short neck case.

Jim

Slamfire · February 10, 2013, 09:24 AM

Chambering a 8mm in a 30-06 could be done and as evident in these pictures, not advisable.

Especially if your rifle is one of those single heat treat 03’s that have rotten gas handling characteristics and no margin of strength if anything goes wrong.

Rifle # 73 153 blown up with German 8mm Mauser

Rifle # 718 233 likely blown up with 8mm Mauser, the 8 mm cartridge found in rifle 73 153 is below the cartridge found in what is left of the chamber of 718 233.

The note I have with this picture is 30-30 chambered in M98. Don’t know how any one could do that.

Bart B. · February 11, 2013, 07:43 AM

Thanks to all for their comments and pictures.

My older brother brought back an 8x57 Mauser (BYF mfg. code; Oberndorf Mauser Factory, 1944) in excellent condition when he returned from the area in 1945. I remember him showing me how a .30-06 round would not chamber in it in the early 1950's when he was getting ready to rebarrel it to a .244 Rem. sporter. But after being told such chambering was common during WWII in the European campaigns, I thought I'd check it out by starting this thread.

Gonna send a link for this thread to the guy who claimed 'twas done in Europe in the early 1940's.

February 8, 2013, 09:17 PM	#1
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	.30-06 fit to 8x57 Mauser chamber? Would someone please try to chamber a .30-06 cartridge in an 8x75 Mauser chamber? Was told that's what the Germans did in WWII when they found ammo from Garands. I tried that decades ago and it wouldn't fit; bolt would not close at all. Now someone's telling me they've done it. Thanks.

February 8, 2013, 09:42 PM	#4
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 6,165	I dont know if it will work or not. My guess is that it will due to the fact that the brass of the neck of the 06 has plenty of clearance to actually go inside the rifling of the 8mm. Headspace is not a problem because the Mauser Claw will hold well enough for firing pin hit. I have a milspec 8Mauser, but dont have any WWII Milspec 06 ammo laying around. In my mind the comparison would only be valid if done with the actual ammo the claim is based on. I plan on picking up some 06 ammo from CMP for my Garands. I will see if it works when I go get it in a few weeks. Last edited by reynolds357; February 8, 2013 at 09:59 PM.

February 8, 2013, 09:48 PM	#5
jonnyc Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2009 Location: PA Posts: 1,731	A .30-06 bullet will fit into an 8mm barrel, but the whole cartridge won't. As stated above, the .30-06's 63mm long case will not allow the bolt to close in the 8mm Mauser's 57mm space. __________________ 2024 PA Cartridge Collector Show; Aug. 16-17, 2024!!! Buy...Sell...Trade All Types of Ammunition & Ordnance PM or email me for 2024 show details.

February 9, 2013, 12:37 AM	#8
Malamute Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 2004 Location: Rocky Mts Posts: 859	No possible way. ^ The neck doesnt change that much when fired in a Garand in any event, but no amount of wanting or sizing will make an '06 round chamber in an 8mm chamber, unless you use an 8mm size die, then trim the neck waaaay back to 8mm length. The neck isnt the issue in any event, the body of the shell is quite a bit longer, as was mentioned several times. The whole premise of the story reminds me of the story I heard years ago,.. that the Vietnamese designed the 7.62x39 round to be able to use US 5.56 ammo if they ran out, but the Americans couldnt use 7.62x39 rounds in their M-16's. The entire story throws logic and history out the window. Logic, like the Vietnamese didnt design their cartridges, it was designed many years before the 5.56 existed,, that firing a 5.56 round in a 7.62x39 chamber would be a really bad idea for several reasons,..... (yes, a 5.56 will actually chamber, sort of) __________________ "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." -Theodore Roosevelt- Last edited by Malamute; February 9, 2013 at 12:44 AM.

February 9, 2013, 03:41 AM	#9
big al hunter Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2011 Location: Washington state Posts: 1,558	I think you need a big hammer to make that work. __________________ You can't fix stupid....however ignorance can be cured through education!

February 8, 2013, 09:27 PM	#2
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,886	The 30-06's case headspace dimension is 2.0526" -(0.0070") The 8x57mm's is 1.8768" -(0.0070) Can't get there from here -- the `06 is too long. (Re SAAMI spec drawings)

February 8, 2013, 09:36 PM	#3
tahoe2 Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2011 Location: Seattle area Posts: 661	I had a guy tell me he used to have a 40 caliber 32 special. I just said "that's cool" knowing that some people are just " stuck on stupid "

February 8, 2013, 09:57 PM	#6
emcon5 Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 1999 Location: High Desert NV Posts: 2,850	Not that it is a surprise, but I jut tried a Greek HXP spent case (fired in my M1) in my 1941 K98k and no effing way. Bolt sticks about 1/4" short of closing.

February 8, 2013, 10:01 PM	#7
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 6,165	Try a live round. The neck grew a lot on the 06 when the Garand fired it. At the least, run it through a small base die and then try it again. That gives me an Idea. When I get to my shop Monday, I will size a piece of brass with a small base die and then see if it fits.

February 9, 2013, 07:04 AM	#10
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,539	Haven't heard that one. But there was a guy on one of the boards who would tell you with a straight face that the 7.7 Arisaka was designed so a desperate Jap could force in a captured .30-06 round.

February 9, 2013, 07:56 AM	#11
PatientWolf Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Location: NC Posts: 946	I'd guess it was more likely they used the ammo in a captured rifle and that people assumed that because they shot "found" Amman, it was in their own guns, so the story got some legs.

February 9, 2013, 12:05 PM	#12
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Post-WW II re-chambering a Mauser to 8mm'06 was fairly common for reloaders. Made a $5 rifle very useful.

February 9, 2013, 08:28 PM	#14
oldgunsmith Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2013 Posts: 278	The neck size has nothing to do with it. It's the shoulder that's in the wrong place for a .30-06 round to chamber in an 8x57. It's not rocket science.

February 9, 2013, 09:24 PM	#15
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	In some cases it may be possible to go the other way(8mm in a 30/06) but totally IMpossible for a 30/06 to chamber in an 8x57 chamber.

February 9, 2013, 10:54 PM	#16
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,886

February 9, 2013, 11:30 PM	#17
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	.30-'06 in 8mm Mauser? No way. 8mm Mauser in .30-'06? Maybe if tolerances work just right and a lot of force is used. .30-'06 in 7.7 Jap? Again, no way. 7.7 Jap in .30-'06? Yep, I tried it. Not only fires but shows no excess pressure signs. The only result is a short neck case. Jim

February 10, 2013, 09:24 AM	#18
Slamfire Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 5,261	Chambering a 8mm in a 30-06 could be done and as evident in these pictures, not advisable. Especially if your rifle is one of those single heat treat 03’s that have rotten gas handling characteristics and no margin of strength if anything goes wrong. Rifle # 73 153 blown up with German 8mm Mauser Rifle # 718 233 likely blown up with 8mm Mauser, the 8 mm cartridge found in rifle 73 153 is below the cartridge found in what is left of the chamber of 718 233. The note I have with this picture is 30-30 chambered in M98. Don’t know how any one could do that. __________________ If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.

February 11, 2013, 07:43 AM	#19
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	Thanks to all for their comments and pictures. My older brother brought back an 8x57 Mauser (BYF mfg. code; Oberndorf Mauser Factory, 1944) in excellent condition when he returned from the area in 1945. I remember him showing me how a .30-06 round would not chamber in it in the early 1950's when he was getting ready to rebarrel it to a .244 Rem. sporter. But after being told such chambering was common during WWII in the European campaigns, I thought I'd check it out by starting this thread. Gonna send a link for this thread to the guy who claimed 'twas done in Europe in the early 1940's.