.45 Colt bullet lubes

[Pathfinder45]

I posted this in the reloading section but thought I might get more experienced answers here: I used ffg black powder yesterday with very good results. My favorite bullet was employed, i.e., home-cast Lee 255 RNFP lubed with sticky toilet-bowl ring wax. Are those rooster and spg lubes really any better than what I'm using? Anybody out there make comparative field tests?

[Hawg]

If the bowl ring is beeswax and not synthetic it'll work ok. If it's synthetic it'll make cleanup a little harder. Smokeless bullets really don't have large enough grooves to hold enough lube for bp. What you want your bp lube to do is keep fouling soft. I'm assuming you were shooting them from a pistol which is more forgiving than rifles or you would have most likely had some leading problems from not enough lube.

[sundance44s]

Thats my home cast bullet of choice ...I pan lube them with 50/50 crisco and beeswax ...haveing the 2 lube rings on these , I haven`t had any problems with , pistols or rifle locking up from fouling .
Even the high dollar Metizer spg lubed bullets only have one lube ring lubed ..
Home cast is the way to go , if you do much shooting at all .
when I play with smokeless , I buy the box of 500 Oregon Trail 250 gr bullets , moly lubed .

[Pathfinder45]

I forgot to mention: I do not size the Lee bullet. I just cast`'em, lube 'em, load 'em, shoot 'em. I use wheel weights and lube the finished bullets in a pan then cut them out cookie-cutter method with an unsized case. They shoot as good as any bullets I've bought.

[sundance44s]

I haven`t tried the toliet ring in my mix ..I try to stay with a food grade lube ..they would be cheaper ,I just stand my bullets in a shallow round pan pour in the melted mix when it cools I can pick up the pan shaped disk and punch out the bullets with my finger .
I`ve never done any sizeing with these bullets eaither ..I do take time to make my casting as perfect as possible ..Never a problem with them though ..and I did try alot of different bullets before I broke down and bought this Lee mold ...takes a lot of lead to cast these //but I also use a cheaper grade lead ..wheel weights and such .

[Pathfinder45]

To sundance44s: what guns do you use it in and what kind of groups are typical on paper?

[sundance44s]

I use these bullets in my Uberti 1860 Henry , Uberti 1858 Remmie 5 1/2 inch barrel with the 45 conversion cylinder ..and an ASM,Pietta and EuroArms Remmies with 8 inch barrels and conversion cylinders ...also an 1873 Uberti Colt 7 1/2 inch barrel.
Useing a bench all the pistols are grouping 1 inch at 25 yards...the1860 Henry it groups one ragged hole at 25 yards . I`m loading my 45 cases with 3f goex ...30 gr. and a cardboard card on top then the bullets .
I`ve also shot all these through a crono ..here`s what they are doing ..
shot from the 8 inch barrel Remmies 830 fps
from the 5 1/2 inch barrl Remmie 770 fps
with 30 grs pyrodex P
8 inch barrel ..935 fps
5 1/2 inch barrel 777 fps
The pyrodex is faster but I still like the 3f Goex better ...smells better anyway.
I didn`t crono any through the 1860 Henry ..or the Uberti 1873 Colt .

[Pathfinder45]

Thanks for the info. I bought some mixed vintage ammo at the gun show; most of a box of Western with copper plated bullets. It was solid head though...... however, in the mix, were six really old, "balloon head", rounds. If new primers will fit in them I will reload them with Dupont fffg and hope I can get the proverbial 40 grains in them. So far, I've only been able to get 31.5 grains of Gearhart-Owens fffg in my solid head cases. If it works well, I'll be asking around for more '"ballon-head" cases. I expect they will be hard to find as I've never encountered them before. After many years of, "bad press", I never thought I'd see the day where they might be more desireable than solid heads; but right now, I'm thinking that they well be advantageous with black powder to get maximum velocity. What do you think?

[sundance44s]

Pathfinder I loaded a few up with 35 grs of the 3f Goex and Pyrodex P .
Here`s the difference through the Crono .
35 grs of Goex ..8 inch barrel 877 fps
30 grs of Goex ..8 inch barrel 830 fps
35 grs Pyrodex P 8 inch barrel 940 fps
30 grs Pyrodex P 8 inch barrel 935 fps
adding the extra powder didn`t make them much faster , the laws of deminishing returns seem to show up quick on a short barrel ...looks like the Pyrodex P doesn`t like the compression with more powder..the Goex does .
with 35 grs of powder and that heavy bullet ...it wasn`t much fun to shoot , too much recoil for my likeing ..they did shoot good groups , so I saved some for future hunting loads .

[Steve499]

I've managed to get 40 grains of Swiss 3f in a solid head .45 LC case by compressing the snarf out of it with a die before seating the bullet. I'll normally only load about 33 grains, which works fine for me. The 40 grain charge seemed to have more recoil but that may have been only a perception of mine influenced by a larger fireball and louder report. I did kill one hog with a 40 grain load behind a 250 grain bullet. The bullet penetrated the skull, exited the throat and lodged in one of the front legs, for a total penetration depth of about 14 -16 inches. As Sundance said about diminishing returns, I'm not convinced 40 grains would provide enough of an advantage to mess with trying to get that much loaded.

I have seen .45LC balloon head cases offered at gun shows, but they were pricy enough to decide me I was doing very well, thank you so much, with 33 grains in my solid head cases.

Steve

[sundance44s]

To get the 35 grs in my 45 cases ..I dropped it in and tapped on the side of the case to settle it down ..a drop tube would have come in handy ..Something I have been meaning to make ..

I wish I had a Walker to shoot through the Crono ..I`m wondering how much difference there really is in a 45 gr powder load and a 60 gr powder load ..might be just more smoke and flames . The walkers do have a longer barrel ..( 9 inches I think ) I`ll get me one some day ..

[Pathfinder45]

"Compressing the snarf out of it" Sounds like it could go off, yikes! I just tamped mine down gently but thoroughly with the eraser end of a pencil and all I could get in to base of bullet was 31.5 grains of gearhart-owens 3fg. I'm new to black-powder in cartridges, but have reloaded since '73 and the .45 Colt since '76. Dabbled with muzzle loaders and real black-powder back there somewhere. Do you use, "compression", dies? How do they work? I know the powder will go bang if placed on a hard surface and smacked with a hammer. I'd hate to have it go off inside a loading die by me over tweaking something..... Maybe y'all could set me straight.

[sundance44s]

I`ve never used a compression die , wouldn`t want to put that much in my cases ...I`m surrpised you can`t get 35 grs of 3f in your 45 colt cases ..or are you loading 2f powder ? That would make a difference larger grains ..I use Winchester brass because it`s thin walled compaired to Starline brass or Remington brass ..The pressures are low with real black powder ...compairing to 777 or smokeless . And the Winchester brass is easyer to size because it is thinner ....nothing worse for me than loading a batch of NEW brass ..much smoother after it`s been used at least once .Maybe my brass being thin walled is why I can get 35 grs in so easy .I use a short piece of wood dowel rod to pack the powder a little and make sure its level before I seat a bullet on it ..but my seating die , is all that is doing the compressing . I think the folks that use the compression die are trying to load 70 grs of black into a 45/70 case ..thats hard to do but it`s suppose to fit .

[Steve499]

My compression die is merely piece of rod with an outside diameter which will just barely slip into a .45 case. The upper end of the rod I turned down to .30 caliber and chucked it up into a .30 caliber collet type bullet puller which threads into a station on my turret press. I can place a case charged with powder into the shell holder, rotate the turret above the ram and use the handle to compress the powder charge to whatever degree I need. I mark the rod so I know where the base of the bullet will come to when it gets seated so there won't be deformation when seating a pure lead bullet. Before I used the compression die, I was deforming my bullets at anything over 33 grains. If the bullets were alloyed a little to make them harder, or if the cases were a different brand, maybe that would change some. I just had to try 40 grains out after reading Elmer Keith's HELL, I WAS THERE book, though I've pretty much settled on 33 grains for my loading since it works for me o.k.

I use the same compression die for .45 LC and 45/70 cases. The degree of compression required will vary depending on the seating depth of the bullet, of course, and the compressing I do is by a slow, steady application of pressure to just make the powder column touch the base of the bullet when it gets seated. It isn't anything like hitting powder with a hammer.

Steve

[long rider]

Hi sundance44s
I had a uberti 44 walker, i found the more bp i
loaded the more the loading ram droped down
at each shoot, so i got rid and keep the rems
smoking. Long Rider.
Sod Buster Tried To Pull On Willson.

[gus3836]

A good bullet lube is bees wax and sheep tallow aka lanolin. Same as spg.

[sundance44s]

Long Rider ..thats the only reason I don`t have a Walker..everyone I know that has one complains about the loading lever falling ...I was going to buy a Dragoon but I heard the same thing about it ..and it has a latch ....So I`ll just be happy with my Colt 51 Navy ..no problems with it . Some of the fixes I`ve heard for the loading lever falling ..have been use tape around it ..put a rubberband around it ...Nope not for me .

[long rider]

Yep, me to sundance44s.
Sod Buster Tried To Pull On Willson.