357 Blackhawk - Page 2

Guv · November 8, 2015, 09:03 PM

Nothing wrong with the 41Magnum. I've had several, all good shooters.

kcub · November 9, 2015, 09:36 AM

For me the fun stops at 41 when it comes to magnum ammo and revolvers.

Guv · November 9, 2015, 12:50 PM

I have an 8" octagon 44 mag Contender and a 255gr hard cast SWC over 11grs of Unique are enough for me.

rep1954 · November 9, 2015, 02:46 PM

Quote:

I have an 8" octagon 44 mag Contender and a 255gr hard cast SWC over 11grs of Unique are enough for me.

As I get older I have to agree. If that won't do it a rifle will. But then again there was a time when I was wild and crazy to.

jmstr · November 9, 2015, 06:37 PM

I have shot a cylinders worth of .454Casul, and it confirmed that a .44mag is enough for me also!

Ruger45LC · November 9, 2015, 08:22 PM

The Blackhawk .357 is a tank, from my 6.5" it's nothing to run 158 XTP's at 1500 fps, which isn't that impressive compared to the bigger bores but it's "original" .357 Mag ballistics.

kcub · November 10, 2015, 02:26 AM

I was handling my 357 Colt SAA and a 45 Colt SAA both with cavalry 7.5" barrels. That 357 is quite a bit heavier, thicker steel in the cylinder and barrel.

I have mammoth ivory grips I was cautioned not to shoot magnums with, do you think it would be ok? For the grips, I know the gun can take it.

Guv · November 10, 2015, 06:53 AM

How much are those grips worth and are they delicate? I don't have a clue about the durability but I would wager they are pretty rare and expensive. I bet they look nice!

kcub · November 10, 2015, 09:59 AM

They are indeed rare and expensive and beautiful.

I suppose the smart thing to do is just swap back to factory original plastique when I have the unquenchable urge to shoot magnum ammo in that particular gun.

DWFan · November 10, 2015, 05:33 PM

.357-44 B&D, .357 GNR; there is a third option. Get a frame-filling, unchambered Blackhawk cylinder (available from various sources) and chamber it for the .360 Dan Wesson. This is the .357 Maximum shortened to 1.415". Velocities with 140 and 158gr bullets will approach .357 Maximum velocities.Brass is available from Starline.
Actually, the ticket to a hot-rod .357 isn't the Ruger Blackhawk, but the Redhawk. It can be rechambered for the .360 DW and loaded to original .357 Maximum (48-50 kpsi) pressures. The result is a cartridge that surpasses even the .353 Casull. If single actions are your thing, look to a rechambered and rebarreled .22 Hornet BFR.

ElVaquero · November 28, 2015, 02:45 PM

It is true that the 45 Colt cartridge can be "souped up" to 44 mag levels. But why? To me it's like putting one-ton springs on a half-ton pickup and using it for one-ton level tasks. The frame, tranny, and axles aren't up to it, and probably not the engine, either. Likewise, 44 mag guns are built from the ground up to be what they are, do what they were intended to do. In most 45 Colt revolvers (except for Rugers), the frames are lighter, the springs are lighter, the barrels are usually thinner, and the cylinder walls are thinner.

Years ago a friend of mine hot-loaded 45 Colt ammo that he could barely hang onto his 4" Blackhawk with both hands and were punishing to shoot in his Winchester Model 94 Trapper. I bought those guns from him. The Winchester had to be rebuilt, the damage was so heavy, but, as you might guess, the Ruger was as tight as new.

**44 AMP** · November 29, 2015, 12:30 PM

Quote:

It's always been my opinion that the downsizing of the 357 power wise was done to help promote the larger calibers more.

I have always been of the opinion that it was done to promote its use in smaller guns. One simply cannot shoot (or shoot for very long) the original 1935 load levels in K frame size guns. And don't even think about it in smaller J frame size guns, no matter what the factory says they are rated for.

Even if the GUN can take it, your hands (and your nervous system) are another matter.

kcub · November 29, 2015, 05:04 PM

On the other hand you can shoot as much hot 357 as you like out of a Ruger SP101 and its just as pocketable as any other steel frame snub. I've shot 200 grain Double Tap out of mine no problem.

It's my pocket skunk ape gun.

ElVaquero · November 29, 2015, 10:53 PM

Rugers Rock!

45 Dragoon · November 30, 2015, 12:09 AM

ElVaquero,
You answered your own question. In your scenario, the Ruger is the 1 ton truck. Everyone agrees and even you said it's up to it so . . . . . what's wrong with hot rodding some .45s and having some fun hualing a "ton" instead of a "half ton".
Besides, it's fun to have a versatile six shooter instead of a gun for every different setup you want to shoot. I have a .45 acp cyl for my El Patron Comp and it's fun to be able to switch but, shooting hot 45s and reg. 45s from the same cyl/same gun is akin to shooting 44 spl in a 44 mag minus the chambering length difference. See, actually makes more sense when you think about it!!

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

Pathfinder45 · November 30, 2015, 02:55 PM

Mammoth Ivory grips? Do you have any pix of them on the revolver that you would like to share? Must be eye-candy, right?

jackmoser65 · November 30, 2015, 10:48 PM

Quote:

The frame, tranny, and axles aren't up to it, and probably not the engine, either.

Interesting but a poor analogy.

Kosh75287 · December 1, 2015, 12:20 AM

I think I'd replace those ivory grips and set them in a place of honor in your gun room.

A great many .45 Colts are not up to much hot-rodding (the conversion replicas, pre-war anything, non-Rugers), but how much hot-rodding does the round really need? 9.5/Herco/250 LSWC gives a shade over 1000 f/s from a 5.5" barrel, and (according to Alliant) does not exceed SAAMI max pressure. Another 0.5 - 1.0 gr. WILL exceed SAAMI max, but not by much, and would likely break 1100 f/s. How much more does one need?

As to the Blackhawk .357, it can be loaded to give true .357 Magnum performance. Striving for performance beyond that will retire a firearm early.

jackmoser65 · December 3, 2015, 09:50 PM

Quote:

I have mammoth ivory grips I was cautioned not to shoot magnums with, do you think it would be ok? For the grips, I know the gun can take it.

Fossil ivory grips are usually stabilized, which would make them tougher than most woods.

oldmanFCSA · December 4, 2015, 04:21 AM

Ruger made a 10" Blackhawk in 357MAXIMUM but stopped production and recovered all revolvers possible due to the jetting action between cylinder and forcing cone causing the bottom side of top strap being cut rather deeply to point of not being safe. The standard pressure of this cartridge was 48,000 PSI and required the use of CCI Small Rifle Magnum primers to retain the pressures generated without lockup of the action. Edited to correct pressure specification error - memory failed me again.

My new revolver was stopped while in shipment to my dealer and sent back to factory for destruction. I had purchased it thru the International Handgun Metallic Shooters Association (IHMSA). My wife purchased the Dan Wesson Model legal as a Production Gun that met weight requirements.

I went back to my Ruger Super Blackhawk 10.5" 44Magnum using 320 grain cast hard projectiles with a gascheck. Bullets were drilled to reduce weight to 220 grains before sealing with application of gascheck. Was very accurate until determined to be non-production and restricted to Unlimited Class only.

jackmoser65 · December 4, 2015, 11:04 AM

Operating pressures for the .357Maximum are 48,000CUP, which is a long way from 62,000psi. The flame cutting was only an issue for those who were running lightweight bullets of 110-125gr over heavy doses of spherical powder. The heavier bullets the cartridge was designed for proved a non-issue. It's shameful that Ruger has destroyed so many of these fine guns, due to the actions of idiots trying to turn a revolver into a rifle.

oldmanFCSA · December 4, 2015, 11:49 AM

JackMoser65,

You are correct sir - I edited my posting to show correct pressure.

I loaded 180 grain Truncated Cone FMJ's - forget the powder and charge - for my now ex-wife's Dan Wesson revolver in 357 Maximum.

Creek Henry · December 6, 2015, 03:38 PM

360 Dan Wesson... Pushed to 40kPsi this load is said to push the 357 to a new level of performance

ElVaquero · December 6, 2015, 04:13 PM

KCub, where did you get 200 grain bullets for .357? I thought they were long out of production.

johnwilliamson062 · December 6, 2015, 11:48 PM

If you want to push it get an Encore. Lots of guys push it pretty hard in an encore.

November 10, 2015, 05:33 PM	#35
DWFan Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2008 Posts: 305	.357-44 B&D, .357 GNR; there is a third option. Get a frame-filling, unchambered Blackhawk cylinder (available from various sources) and chamber it for the .360 Dan Wesson. This is the .357 Maximum shortened to 1.415". Velocities with 140 and 158gr bullets will approach .357 Maximum velocities.Brass is available from Starline. Actually, the ticket to a hot-rod .357 isn't the Ruger Blackhawk, but the Redhawk. It can be rechambered for the .360 DW and loaded to original .357 Maximum (48-50 kpsi) pressures. The result is a cartridge that surpasses even the .353 Casull. If single actions are your thing, look to a rechambered and rebarreled .22 Hornet BFR. Last edited by DWFan; November 11, 2015 at 12:50 AM.

November 28, 2015, 02:45 PM	#36
ElVaquero Member Join Date: November 15, 2015 Posts: 42	Thought I would Weigh In... It is true that the 45 Colt cartridge can be "souped up" to 44 mag levels. But why? To me it's like putting one-ton springs on a half-ton pickup and using it for one-ton level tasks. The frame, tranny, and axles aren't up to it, and probably not the engine, either. Likewise, 44 mag guns are built from the ground up to be what they are, do what they were intended to do. In most 45 Colt revolvers (except for Rugers), the frames are lighter, the springs are lighter, the barrels are usually thinner, and the cylinder walls are thinner. Years ago a friend of mine hot-loaded 45 Colt ammo that he could barely hang onto his 4" Blackhawk with both hands and were punishing to shoot in his Winchester Model 94 Trapper. I bought those guns from him. The Winchester had to be rebuilt, the damage was so heavy, but, as you might guess, the Ruger was as tight as new.

December 1, 2015, 12:20 AM	#43
Kosh75287 Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2007 Posts: 820	I think I'd replace those ivory grips and set them in a place of honor in your gun room. A great many .45 Colts are not up to much hot-rodding (the conversion replicas, pre-war anything, non-Rugers), but how much hot-rodding does the round really need? 9.5/Herco/250 LSWC gives a shade over 1000 f/s from a 5.5" barrel, and (according to Alliant) does not exceed SAAMI max pressure. Another 0.5 - 1.0 gr. WILL exceed SAAMI max, but not by much, and would likely break 1100 f/s. How much more does one need? As to the Blackhawk .357, it can be loaded to give true .357 Magnum performance. Striving for performance beyond that will retire a firearm early. __________________ GOD BLESS JEFF COOPER, whose instructions, consultations, and publications have probably saved more lives than can ever be reliably calculated. DVC, sir. انجلو. المسلحة. جاهزة. Carpe SCOTCH! Last edited by Kosh75287; December 1, 2015 at 12:30 AM.

December 4, 2015, 04:21 AM	#45
oldmanFCSA Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2010 Location: WISCONSIN Posts: 283	Ruger made a 10" Blackhawk in 357MAXIMUM but stopped production and recovered all revolvers possible due to the jetting action between cylinder and forcing cone causing the bottom side of top strap being cut rather deeply to point of not being safe. The standard pressure of this cartridge was 48,000 PSI and required the use of CCI Small Rifle Magnum primers to retain the pressures generated without lockup of the action. Edited to correct pressure specification error - memory failed me again. My new revolver was stopped while in shipment to my dealer and sent back to factory for destruction. I had purchased it thru the International Handgun Metallic Shooters Association (IHMSA). My wife purchased the Dan Wesson Model legal as a Production Gun that met weight requirements. I went back to my Ruger Super Blackhawk 10.5" 44Magnum using 320 grain cast hard projectiles with a gascheck. Bullets were drilled to reduce weight to 220 grains before sealing with application of gascheck. Was very accurate until determined to be non-production and restricted to Unlimited Class only. __________________ OldmanFCSA = "Oldman" at www.fcsa.org FCSA Member, SCSA Member, NRA Member, & AMA Member "Oldage & Treachery will overcome Youth & Skill" Last edited by oldmanFCSA; December 4, 2015 at 11:44 AM.

December 4, 2015, 11:49 AM	#47
oldmanFCSA Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2010 Location: WISCONSIN Posts: 283	JackMoser65, You are correct sir - I edited my posting to show correct pressure. I loaded 180 grain Truncated Cone FMJ's - forget the powder and charge - for my now ex-wife's Dan Wesson revolver in 357 Maximum. __________________ OldmanFCSA = "Oldman" at www.fcsa.org FCSA Member, SCSA Member, NRA Member, & AMA Member "Oldage & Treachery will overcome Youth & Skill"

November 8, 2015, 09:03 PM	#26
Guv Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2012 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,126	Nothing wrong with the 41Magnum. I've had several, all good shooters.

November 9, 2015, 09:36 AM	#27
kcub Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2010 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 3,318	For me the fun stops at 41 when it comes to magnum ammo and revolvers.

November 9, 2015, 12:50 PM	#28
Guv Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2012 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,126	I have an 8" octagon 44 mag Contender and a 255gr hard cast SWC over 11grs of Unique are enough for me.

November 9, 2015, 06:37 PM	#30
jmstr Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2001 Location: San Joaquin Valley, CA Posts: 1,281	I have shot a cylinders worth of .454Casul, and it confirmed that a .44mag is enough for me also!

November 9, 2015, 08:22 PM	#31
Ruger45LC Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 768	The Blackhawk .357 is a tank, from my 6.5" it's nothing to run 158 XTP's at 1500 fps, which isn't that impressive compared to the bigger bores but it's "original" .357 Mag ballistics.

November 10, 2015, 02:26 AM	#32
kcub Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2010 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 3,318	I was handling my 357 Colt SAA and a 45 Colt SAA both with cavalry 7.5" barrels. That 357 is quite a bit heavier, thicker steel in the cylinder and barrel. I have mammoth ivory grips I was cautioned not to shoot magnums with, do you think it would be ok? For the grips, I know the gun can take it.

November 10, 2015, 06:53 AM	#33
Guv Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2012 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,126	How much are those grips worth and are they delicate? I don't have a clue about the durability but I would wager they are pretty rare and expensive. I bet they look nice!

November 10, 2015, 09:59 AM	#34
kcub Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2010 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 3,318	They are indeed rare and expensive and beautiful. I suppose the smart thing to do is just swap back to factory original plastique when I have the unquenchable urge to shoot magnum ammo in that particular gun.

November 29, 2015, 05:04 PM	#38
kcub Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2010 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 3,318	On the other hand you can shoot as much hot 357 as you like out of a Ruger SP101 and its just as pocketable as any other steel frame snub. I've shot 200 grain Double Tap out of mine no problem. It's my pocket skunk ape gun.

November 29, 2015, 10:53 PM	#39
ElVaquero Member Join Date: November 15, 2015 Posts: 42	Rugers Rock!

November 30, 2015, 12:09 AM	#40
45 Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2013 Posts: 656	ElVaquero, You answered your own question. In your scenario, the Ruger is the 1 ton truck. Everyone agrees and even you said it's up to it so . . . . . what's wrong with hot rodding some .45s and having some fun hualing a "ton" instead of a "half ton". Besides, it's fun to have a versatile six shooter instead of a gun for every different setup you want to shoot. I have a .45 acp cyl for my El Patron Comp and it's fun to be able to switch but, shooting hot 45s and reg. 45s from the same cyl/same gun is akin to shooting 44 spl in a 44 mag minus the chambering length difference. See, actually makes more sense when you think about it!! Mike www.goonsgunworks.com Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

November 30, 2015, 02:55 PM	#41
Pathfinder45 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Posts: 3,224	Mammoth Ivory grips? Do you have any pix of them on the revolver that you would like to share? Must be eye-candy, right?

December 4, 2015, 11:04 AM	#46
jackmoser65 Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2014 Posts: 754	Operating pressures for the .357Maximum are 48,000CUP, which is a long way from 62,000psi. The flame cutting was only an issue for those who were running lightweight bullets of 110-125gr over heavy doses of spherical powder. The heavier bullets the cartridge was designed for proved a non-issue. It's shameful that Ruger has destroyed so many of these fine guns, due to the actions of idiots trying to turn a revolver into a rifle.

December 6, 2015, 03:38 PM	#48
Creek Henry Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2009 Location: Dallas Posts: 514	360 Dan Wesson... Pushed to 40kPsi this load is said to push the 357 to a new level of performance

December 6, 2015, 04:13 PM	#49
ElVaquero Member Join Date: November 15, 2015 Posts: 42	KCub, where did you get 200 grain bullets for .357? I thought they were long out of production.

December 6, 2015, 11:48 PM	#50
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	If you want to push it get an Encore. Lots of guys push it pretty hard in an encore.