Another stupid reloading question--scrap metal?

[MikeGoob]

Havent even loaded one round yet and im trying to think through lots of variables.

I have jars and jars of pennies. Is it possible to melt these suckers down to cast bullets out of? Maybe mix with lead? As far as i know pennies are nearly all zinc these days

[taylorce1]

Right now it is illegal to destroy pennies as far as I know.

http://www.recyclingtoday.com/news/news.asp?ID=12229

[Rottweiler]

Zinc is the bane of casting lead for bullets. You don't want no stinkin zinc in your melt. Use the pennies to buy you casting equipment and lead and happy casting. Go to http://castboolits.gunloads.com/index.php. These guys are a wealth of info for casting.

First thing you'll learn is bullets are copper jacketed things, boolits are cast from lead Don't ask just go with it

[SL1]

"First thing you'll learn is bullets are copper jacketed things, boolits are cast from lead Don't ask just go with it."

Now why would we just "go with" a new yuppie slang term like that in such a traditional pursuit as reloading and shooting?

SL1

[Rottweiler]

I made the mistake of asking them about that bullet/boolit thing when I registered..some of them almost ate me alive for asking. I don't think I'd call them yuppies there either. They seem to be an older crowd there. Many have been casting "boolits" longer than I have been alive. One or two have actually called me a whippersnapper, and I'm only 39.

[freakshow10mm]

Pennies are made of tin, not zinc.

[TexasSeaRay]

Pennies are made of tin, not zinc.

Tin, huh?

REALLY?!?

And tin helps the lead fill the mould better.

HMMMMMMMMM . . . .

Wonder what I'm thinking.

Jeff

P.S. I just looked it up and pennies are mostly zinc.

[freakshow10mm]

Yep.

[Sevens]

Did they recently change the composition of the penny?
What used to be mostly copper, then steel in 1943, then back to copper, ended up being mostly zinc at some point in the 70s or 80s

Tin?

A-ha-- here we go:

* The composition was pure copper from 1793 to 1837.
* From 1837 to 1857, the cent was made of bronze (95 percent copper, and five percent tin and zinc).
* From 1857, the cent was 88 percent copper and 12 percent nickel, giving the coin a whitish appearance.
* The cent was again bronze (95 percent copper, and five percent tin and zinc) from 1864 to 1962.
(Note: In 1943, the coin's composition was changed to zinc-coated steel. This change was only for the year 1943 and was due to the critical use of copper for the war effort. However, a limited number of copper pennies were minted that year. You can read more about the rare, collectible 1943 copper penny in "What's So Special about the 1943 Copper Penny.")
* In 1962, the cent's tin content, which was quite small, was removed. That made the metal composition of the cent 95 percent copper and 5 percent zinc.
* The alloy remained 95 percent copper and 5 percent zinc until 1982, when the composition was changed to 97.5 percent zinc and 2.5 percent copper (copper-plated zinc). Cents of both compositions appeared in that year.
http://www.usmint.gov/about_the_mint...ion=fun_facts2

I think the earlier post is correct... the amount of destruction you are allowed to due to U.S. money is limited. I know you can legally run one through the presser at the zoo, and they don't chase you down for placing one on the rail road tracks, but it's not likely legal to melt down many jars of them!

[TexasSeaRay]

Good thing pennies AREN'T made of tin, or lead or else I'd be in jeapordy of seriously considering the possibility of contemplating an act that might be illegal.

But since they're ZINC . . . and zinc is the sworn enemy of anyone who melts and casts lead boolits, I might just start melting my pennies and shipping the melted zinc off to China.

Jeff

[freakshow10mm]

I gave a penny to MI Tech's mineral research director. He ran a GSMS test on it and it came out at 93% Sn, 6.8% Cu, and .2% C.

[MikeGoob]

Well, say I got a load of free pure tin. Any reason not to cast bullets out of pure tin? Seems safer and easier to work with than lead.

Please excuse my ignorance but I couldnt find any answer while searching.

[freakshow10mm]

Tin is used to fill the mold better. Tin doesn't lend itself to casting very well in bullets. Lead with tin and antimony added is the best we've got.

[MikeGoob]

Again I appreciate everyones patience with me here, would it be insolent to want to know why?

[freakshow10mm]

In a lead-tin alloy, too much tin will increase leading. If you cast with pure tin, you will have tin streaks down your barrel. Same as if you used pure lead in smokeless powder cartridges.

Adding tin to lead aids in flow and fill properties. Antimony is a hardening agent.

[Sevens]

The density of the metal you wish to cast bullets with means a whole lot. Remember that your mold is going to determine the size and that's not a variable. You will get whatever size the mold is made to create. So what you do have control over is the weight.

I have no idea what pure tin ends up weighing in the shape of a bullet, but if you are making .358 cast SWC bullets out of tin, and these bullets end up weighing 65 grains, you aren't going to have much of a bullet. It's not like you can continue to make them bigger until you have them up to 158 grains in weight. Also, what would a pure tin bullet do to the rifling in your barrel? Will it harm that rifling? Will it take hold in the rifling or just start tumbling as soon as it exits the muzzle? You don't want minute-of-city bus accuracy with your new handloads.

There's a reason we've been shooting lead bullets for hundreds of years. To find a suitable replacement, you need something that has a similar density to lead, soft like lead to grab the rifling and not harm the barrel, and can also be melted at temperatures that casting equipment works in.

I've read where some guys are actually molding SILVER bullets. Real silver. Incredibly expensive and I don't know how they perform. I would think you could try anything, but the results?

[freakshow10mm]

Remember that your mold is going to determine the size and that's not a variable. You will get whatever size the mold is made to create. So what you do have control over is the weight.

You can vary the size with the alloy. It isn't set in stone, you have some variance in your control.

[MikeGoob]

Thanks for the very handy lesson!

[Sevens]

You can vary the size with the alloy. It isn't set in stone, you have some variance in your control.

I realize that you can vary the size by hundredths of an inch, but what I'm saying is, if you use an alloy that ends up weighing 75 grains, you can't double the length of that bullet in order to make it 150 grains in the event you were trying to make a 150 grain weight projectile.

Even if you could, with some strange array of different molds, you'd likely have a helluva lot of trouble loading those rounds in to most any modern firearm outside of, say, a single shot like a Contender, where the constraints of chamber size and magazine aren't as rigid.

[DaveInGA]

You boys listen to Freakshow10MM. He knows what he's talking about. And cast boolits is THE PLACE on the net to learn about casting lead boolits. Them old farts have forgotten more about casting and reloading than most learn in their entire lives.

It's where I go when I want an answer to a seriously hard question or problem related to casting or reloading. I know there's someone over there that can answer and knows more than I know.

Regards,

Dave

[GP100man]

fellas:
the terms evolved from a need to distinguish which we are talkin `bout!
visit the castboolit site & search it theres a whole thread on the subject,most of it`s good though there is some that dont like the term boolit.
i like it , nuff said !!

GP100man##

[snuffy]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=27898

Now why would we just "go with" a new yuppie slang term like that in such a traditional pursuit as reloading and shooting?

Go to the link above and call us a bunch of yuppies! I dare you! Don't be surprised if a big hand comes out of you monitor and grabs you by the throat! Just kidding, call it a fraternity if you must, or dismiss it as a quirk or a sense of belonging.

You COULD try to cast bullets out of bismuth. It has shown promise as a substitute for lead in shotguns. It is about 90% as dense as lead, terribly expensive,(7pound jug of shot,$100.00), but the drawback is it's brittle. With the addition of some tin it becomes more ductile.

Tungsten is denser that lead, even more expensive than bismuth, but is very hard. It would make a fine bullet IF it could be contained in a copper jacket. I doubt it could be molded in a home setting. Yeah I know there's already tungsten core bullets for armor penetrators.

If the greenies make us quit using lead for boolits, we're pretty much screwed. Oh, yeah, Kalifornicate has already done that!