158gn LDSWC .357 help for a newbie

[gac009]

Im a new reloader and will likely reload my first round tomorrow night, if I can pick out a powder to match this bullet

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...eitemid=553891

After having read Lee's Reloader Second Edition I thought about what he said in relation to pressure being the limiting factor with cast bullets but I am unable to locate the BHN of these bullets online and thus unable to decide what a safe pressure load would be. Orginally I decided to use 12gr of Herc 2400, but I would love to hear any advice offered on loading 158gr LDSWC in a 4inch GP100.

[REDCELL]

Gac009,
I have been using plated swc's and they they seem like good bullets.
As fas as loads,
Light loads: Titegroup , 5.0gr at col 0f 1.587
med load: Unique, 5.9gr at col of 1.585
med-heavy:HS-7 10.0gr with (mag primer) at col of 1.587
You said you haves Lees book, great book. Pick up Speers and Hodgdons too, its always nice to be able to cross referance.
BTW, i'm shooting out of my 6 inch GP100

[mjrodney]

My favorite .38 special plinking load is 2.9g of ordinary Clays for a lead 158 grain semi-wadcutter.

Alternatively, 3.5g of Titegroup or Bullseye works well.

All out of a 6" GP-100.

[JJB2]

i've used bullseye for .38 spl an .357 mag loads for years........ i get good loads and never had one fail to go off an get lots of reloads from one pound of powder... i'm on a tight budget so self cast bullets, lee speed dies, and bullseye powder keep me going.........

[HSMITH]

You will shoot a LOT of loads before you find one that is more pleasant to shoot than 6 grains of Unique with a 158 LSWC.......

In 38 I like 3 grains of Clays.

[gac009]

hearing alot of people advocate Unique, and was just wondering how well ite meters.

One of the reasons I was gonna use 2400 was to make some magnum jacketed loads to shoot the lead out and it seems to have a low pressure for its velocity. I was thinking that If I lowered the load even more and sat the bullet a little bit higher than the given OAL I could lower pressure to a suitable one for the lead bullets I want to use.

Everyone seems to be saying unique though so Im not one to ignore the advice of the expierenced.

[HSMITH]

Unique is a flake type powder, and it will challenge a low cost powder measure. It should work fine in a quality powder measure.

[JJB2]

if you have trouble with flake type powders sticking in your measure because of static an old trick is to wipe it inside and out with a fabric softener sheet for clothes driers............ it helps... i've done it to help keep bullseye from sticking to the sides of my lee powder measure........


LIFE IS SHORT.............

[918v]

If you use .358" size bullets, they will seal the throats of your GP-100 very well. The limiting factor will then be the velocity, and not so much the pressure. 12 grains of 2400 will not combust completely and will leave unburnt powder everywhere. Use a faster powder like Unique. It gives good load density and medium velocities. If you want good performance from 2400, load 15-16 grains.

[goose2w1]

I know this is far away from the original question, but thought it it may have some future reference value. I just came back from the range today after testing some reloads with my Ruger Sp-101 loaded up with Remington JSP. Different loadings of Blue Dot between 5.5 and 6.4 all shot VERY WELL!! I tried W231 also and HATED IT! It was quite a bit too snappy. That was just .38 specials. In .357 I found the blue dot @ 9.3 at W231@ 6.4to be vey shootable. I was alittle partial to blue dot because it felt a bit softer, but I will up the grains and see how that feels.

[goose2w1]

They were 158 grain bullets out of a 2 1/4" snubbie

[Ben Shepherd]

I agree with 918v's post.

HOWEVER: THE CHARGE WEIGHT HE RECCOMENDS IS ABOVE CURRENT PUBLISHED MAXIMUMS!! SO WORK UP SLOWLY AND USE AT YOUR OWN RISK!! How's that Johnny?

With that out of the way: I've found the sweet spot to be 15.2 grains of 2400 in winchester cases, with a federal small magnum pistol primer, topped with a 158 HCSWC. This load should do 1400-1450 out of your 4" GP100.

With a jacketed slug I back it down to 14.8 grains.

[gac009]

went out a bought a bottle of unique, Ill get some 2400 with my next check. Once I do I would like to see if 2400 can offer reduced pressure but maintain the same velocities as unique and if it reduces leading.

[918v]

Pressures have nothing to do with leading. Velocity, hardness, and bullet sizing affect leading. 2400 will burn incompletely at low pressures and you'll see crappy accuracy.

[Ben Shepherd]

When you try it, it will work, kinda. It will also be VERY dirty. 2400 likes to run at fairly high pressures(It was actually designed as a fast rifle powder).

See above post for explanation on leading.

[gac009]

Everything I am reading is pointing to the fact that 2400 dosnt burn well at low pressures, however there seem to be two schools of thought on leading. Some few sources say its got alot to do with pressure and most say its velocity. When I have more expierence Ill decide for myself. Both agree with sizing and bullet harndess.

[918v]

If you shoot an undersized bullet, and have enough pressure, the bullet will obturate the bore (swell to fit). That is the only effect pressure has on leading in handguns. Rifles are a whole different ballgame.

[gac009]

Sorry to ask so many questions but I still have alot to learn but why is it different in handguns and rifles, dosnt the pressure reach its peak pretty quickly?

[918v]

Because rifle cartriges generate up to twice the pressure generated by typical handguns. The 50000 PSI will mangle the base of a lead bullet very badly, unless it wears a gas check.

[gac009]

I was going by the chapters in Modern Reloading by Richard Lee that state that bullet strength is affected by pressure and not velocity except when an increase in velocity is generated by an increase in pressure. I have read a few other articles and the such that support this theory but most people seem dead set on the velocity and bullet hardness school of thought. I guess Im either misunderstanding mr lee or that Ill have to decide for myself though actual reloading and shooting on this one.

[918v]

For what you are planning, pressure is irrelevant. If you had a 454 Casull, pressure would matter.

[gac009]

please explain why pressure would affect bullet strength in a 454 to cause leading and not in a 357. I am just trying to lean, but why would a low pressure high velocity lead a .357 and not a 454? am I misunderstanding something about the relationship between pressure and leading?

[918v]

When a round is fired in a revolver, pressure builds up inside the chamber. The chamber is sealed by the brass case. The bullet is pushed down the bore because the bore is the path of least resistance.

Between the end of the cylinder and the beginning of the rifling exists a gap called the forcing cone. This is where the bullet is unsupported around the shank area.

If the pressure is high enough, and the bullet weak enough, it will swell in the area where it is unsupported. The weaker the alloy, the more the shank will swell. The more it swells, the more it has to swage down in the forcing cone. The more it swages down, the more lead is shaved off the bullet. This lead ultimately ends up in the bore, as leading.

Therefore, using a pure lead 357 bullet at 35000 PSI is not a good idea.

Similarly, using a medium hard (12 BHN) 454 bullet at 60000 PSI is not a good idea.

357's do fine with 12 BHN bullets at any pressure level, but 454's need a 20+ BHN bullet to withstand the 60000 PSI operating pressure.

However, this is just one variable that leads to leading. There are numerous others such as velocity, lube, bullet size, gun tolerances, bore roughness, rifling type, etc.

[gac009]

thanks, thats very helpful.

[Hook686]

I load 158 grain midway JSP bullets, with 7.8 grains of Unique. I find my cheap Lee Perfect Measure throws a variable charge of the flake powder (7.8 +/- .3 grains). I am not a bullseye shooter, so the deviation does not bother me. Personally I like the Unique ... very versatile powder, especially for the .38/.357 caliber. While I like 2400 better, for the .357 magnum, it also is almost twice the powder use, as with the Unique.

I recommend Unique, with 158 grain JSP, or JHP bullets, as a good economical choice.