Query about Cowboy Action Shooting and Caliber?

[Driftwood Johnson]

I am well aware that the list in the handbook is not all inclusive. My point is that the examples sited are specific cartridges, not rifling groove diameters.

[salvadore]

Tis better to dwell in the desert than live with contentious cowboys.

[g.willikers]

There's really only one reason to complain about cowboy style matches.
Too danged many guns to clean!

[seeker_two]

Only thing I'd want to change in SASS would be in regard to the Wild Bunch matches. I would like to see DA revolvers of the type available then allowed (skinny-barrel M&P's, N-frame .44Spl). They would be as competitive as the 1911's and would open WB to revolver shooters.

[Driftwood Johnson]

There's really only one reason to complain about cowboy style matches.
Too danged many guns to clean!

Who cleans guns every time they are shot? Not me. Black Powder, yes, Smokeless, no way. They get cleaned when they need it.

Only thing I'd want to change in SASS would be in regard to the Wild Bunch matches. I would like to see DA revolvers of the type available then allowed (skinny-barrel M&P's, N-frame .44Spl). They would be as competitive as the 1911's and would open WB to revolver shooters.

It is not an officially recognized category, but some clubs have a Pike category, named after the William Holden character in the movie. I have shot 1917 Smiths and early M&P 38s in the Pike category at one club. That's why I like to go there, if you have cool old guns, you can usually use them.

I have also shot a couple of antique S&W 44 Double Actions at a couple of clubs. Just local matches, nobody gets upset about stretching the rules a little bit. I only shoot them single action, and everybody knows I am not going to go home with the gold Cadillac at the end of the day.



And therein lies a lesson. If you actually show up at a match, and get to know folks, and they get to know you, you can usually do some relatively unconventional things. But only if you actually show up, rather than sniping at a sport you have never tried from behind a keyboard.

[salvadore]

but the rest were just plain nasty.

My experience with the cowpokes was similar to SanctusBells, the ratio of jerks to regular folk was close to 50/50. Besides the ridiculous 'power factor', the amount of nasty romeo foxtrots was staggering. This was some years ago and maybe these cowboys gave up the game to pursue being serial killers. The small amount of sniping (get it?) in this thread suggests there are more unhappy cowboys than gay caballeros. I wish I could find the particular forum again just to see if the they had lightened up.

[Driftwood Johnson]

My experience with the cowpokes was similar to SanctusBells, the ratio of jerks to regular folk was close to 50/50. Besides the ridiculous 'power factor', the amount of nasty romeo foxtrots was staggering. This was some years ago and maybe these cowboys gave up the game to pursue being serial killers. The small amount of sniping (get it?) in this thread suggests there are more unhappy cowboys than gay caballeros. I wish I could find the particular forum again just to see if the they had lightened up.

That has not been my experience. Perhaps the club you showed up at was the exception. I have shot CAS now for over ten years in seven different states. Yes, you will run into different personalities, but by far the great majority of people I have met have been friendly, outgoing, and ready to lend me their equipment if mine brokedown. I can honestly say in all that time there is only one person I have shot with who I refuse to posse up with anymore. You can run into a jerk anywhere, but there are not that many in CAS.

[Crunchy Frog]

I've been shooting cowboy since 2010. I don't travel as much as some shooters; I've shot matches in the Carolinas and Florida and visited a club in Texas. In my experience cowboy shooters are the most friendly and helpful of shooters. The "ratio" of unpleasant people is low. This is consistent with the "culture" of cowboy shooting.

With any rule there are exceptions.

[salvadore]

The "ratio" of unpleasant people is low. This is consistent with the "culture" of cowboy shooting.

I stand corrected, this was a web forum of some years back and maybe anonymity allowed unpleasant people to be unpleasant.

This is exactly what one of them told me one evening,,,
That they purposefully designed the gun and cartridge rules,,,
To ensure that their game stayed in a certain economic category,,,
They wanted it to be somewhat expensive to attract a higher class clientele.

Having a larger income doesn't insure a higher class clientele, eg our ruling class.
It may encourage a bit of snob appeal by making it dificult for the peasants to play.

[Driftwood Johnson]

This is exactly what one of them told me one evening,,,
That they purposefully designed the gun and cartridge rules,,,
To ensure that their game stayed in a certain economic category,,,
They wanted it to be somewhat expensive to attract a higher class clientele.

Having a larger income doesn't insure a higher class clientele, eg our ruling class. It may encourage a bit of snob appeal by making it dificult for the peasants to play.

Whether or not the attributed quote is true, bear in mind that CAS started back in the 1980s. I can assure you that there is very little high end snobbery in CAS today. Yes, there are a few of us who actually shoot real Colts and antiques, but the great majority of CAS shooters are hard working folks who like to shoot old fashioned guns, and there is very little snobbery in CAS today.

[44 Dave]

The guys I shoot with are all easy on SASS rules especially for new people getting started.
Any of you cowboys shooting .44 WCF black powder? I am shooting an original '73 and wonder if it would handle 60 rounds with out a swab out?

[Model12Win]

The best thing to is get a .38 special and load about 1 grain of Hodgdon Trail Boss under a 125 grain LSWC bullet.

That way with your bb-gun like recoil you'll be able to stay on target and fire as fast as possible. Cowboy action shooting is about SPEED. Just like the real old cowboys in the Old West, whoever can get the shot on quickist would win the day and go home safe.

[Jbar4Ranch]

Originally Posted by 44 Dave

The guys I shoot with are all easy on SASS rules especially for new people getting started.
Any of you cowboys shooting .44 WCF black powder? I am shooting an original '73 and wonder if it would handle 60 rounds with out a swab out?

With subs, or a big lube groove, such as on a Big Lube bullet, yes.

[rclark]

Just like the real old cowboys in the Old West, whoever can get the shot on quickest would win the day and go home safe.

Except, most in those days were using 'factory' blackpowder loads or cap/ball loads... not the wimp loads that 'some' of the CAS shooters use today just to 'win'... Not quite in the 'spirit of the game' from my point of view . However, I can't throw stones as I don't participate or plan too .... just my observation of an outsider looking in .

[g.willikers]

The complaint that Cowboy matches are strictly high buck affairs isn't really true.
It's up to the participant how expensive they are.
Before getting involved in other things, I looked into how to get outfitted for SASS and found it could easily be done for well under $1,000.
Actually quite a bit less.
Just for fun, walking around a local gun show at the time, it would have been possible to get outfitted for around $600.
Nothing new or fancy, but plenty good enough to get involved and participate.

[thickice]

The complaint that Cowboy matches are strictly high buck affairs isn't really true.
It's up to the participant how expensive they are.
Before getting involved in other things, I looked into how to get outfitted for SASS and found it could easily be done for well under $1,000.
Actually quite a bit less.
Just for fun, walking around a local gun show at the time, it would have been possible to get outfitted for around $600.
Nothing new or fancy, but plenty good enough to get involved and participate.
_

I would really like to hear how you would have done this.

[Jim Watson]

When I was active, I treated it as the Single Action Shooting Society.

I put my money into guns, not clothes. I wore black J.C Penney's slacks with red suspenders, an old dress shirt with silk (OK, rayon) kerchief, and Russian surplus boots. I did buy a nice red brocade vest. My good hat was a doorprize, my regular one was a straw Resistol from the local western wear/feed store.

But I saw people who probably paid more for their boots than I paid for a sixgun.

[SG29736]

How many of the posters here, who don't participate in SASS, are members of USPSA or IDPA or ICORE or 3 Gun, and regularly shoot matches. A lot of shooters can find something about all of the shooting sports that they don't like, to avoid getting out in front of other shooters and seeing where they stack up. Many people find out "a little information" about these shooting sports and than go on to presume they know all about them and how they operate and base their opinions on this partial knowledge. Missing out on a lot of fun in the process. Mark

[Jbar4Ranch]

Originally Posted by thickice

The complaint that Cowboy matches are strictly high buck affairs isn't really true.
It's up to the participant how expensive they are.
Before getting involved in other things, I looked into how to get outfitted for SASS and found it could easily be done for well under $1,000.
Actually quite a bit less.
Just for fun, walking around a local gun show at the time, it would have been possible to get outfitted for around $600.
Nothing new or fancy, but plenty good enough to get involved and participate.
_

I would really like to hear how you would have done this.

Slightly modified from a previous post:
I can put together a set of four NEW, SASS legal guns that will come in under $850. Pietta 1851's are currently on sale at Cabela's for $149.99. An NEF Pardner 12 ga can be had for under $130.00. A Rossi 1892 can be had for under $400 - I just bought a .44 mag, new in box, for $397 including shipping. That comes to $826.98
This is for NEW guns, all SASS legal. I'm sure getting it under $600 is easily doable with used guns, and, although it won't likely be the guns you really want, it will be under $600, and all SASS legal guns.

[44 Dave]

I got in to SASS shooting to shoot the guns I already had. I did buy a cheap out side hammer coach gun, (made in china) that after a bit of "tune up" does what I need it to do.
I am not very worried about the scores, just like to shoot at steel with my Colt and Winchester. It is once a month for our 5 "Summer" here in Northern Wisconsin.

[Driftwood Johnson]

The guys I shoot with are all easy on SASS rules especially for new people getting started.
Any of you cowboys shooting .44 WCF black powder? I am shooting an original '73 and wonder if it would handle 60 rounds with out a swab out?

Howdy

Here is the latest batch of 44-40s I turned out, about 150 rounds. Starline brass, Big Lube Mav-Dutchman bullet, 2.2CC of Schuetzen FFg and Federal Large Pistol primers.



I run these through my Uberti 1860 Henry, Uberti replica Winchester 1873, Two original Winchester 1892s, and an old Marlin Model 1894. Sixty rounds is no problem, that is how much rifle ammo I go through at a typical six stage match.


******************



A word about trying to get started in CAS on a shoestring with Cap & Ball revolvers: A lot of guys get seduced by the low price of C&B revolvers. However unless you already have experience with C&B, I suggest you spend a bit more money and start out with cartridge revolvers. Or at least plan to spend a few range sessions getting used to loading and shooting C&B. Cartridges were invented for a reason. Faster to load, less troublesome, and more reliable than C&B. You have not experienced a really frustrating match until you have dealt with hangfires and cap fragments falling down inside the action jamming up the gun on the clock.

C&B revolvers can be tuned up to be much more reliable than they are off the shelf, but it takes time and somebody who knows what they are doing. If you are new to C&B, a match is just about the worst place I can think of to try to get familiar with them. I suggest spending the money on cartridge guns, and later on buying C&B pistols if they still interest you.

[Jbar4Ranch]

Absolutely, Driftwood. I certainly don't recommend starting with C&B guns unless a person is already familiar with shooting them - just pointing out that a complete set of SASS legal guns can indeed be had quite inexpensively. I don't recommend starting out with a single shot shotgun either, just pointing out...

[seeker_two]

Originally Posted by Model12Win

The best thing to is get a .38 special and load about 1 grain of Hodgdon Trail Boss under a 125 grain LSWC bullet.

That way with your bb-gun like recoil you'll be able to stay on target and fire as fast as possible. Cowboy action shooting is about SPEED. Just like the real old cowboys in the Old West, whoever can get the shot on quickist would win the day and go home safe.

I'm surprised....they actually still use powder in the cases?......

[Model12Win]

^ I'm not sure if it's a requirement or not, but it seems like just a primer and an empty case might work well for rootin' tootin' "cowboy" action shootin' too!

[Fingers McGee]

Originally Posted by Model12Win

I'm not sure if it's a requirement or not, but it seems like just a primer and an empty case might work well for rootin' tootin' "cowboy" action shootin' too!

Then don't be speaking out of turn on something you obviously know nothing about.

While full house BP .44 or 45 Colt caliber loads are not a requirement, (although I do use 31 g of fffg BP in my 44-40s) there is a power factor that must be met by all competitors