9mm reloads

[HD5]

I'm just starting to reload 9mm for my Kel-Tec P-11.
I've reloaded rifle and shotgun for 20 years, but I'm not up to speed on handgun loading.
OAL and crimping are my big concerns.
On my rifle I smoke up a bullet and chamber it to see where it hits the rifleing to set it to the maximum length for accuracy. I don't think the objective here is the same.
Also do I need to crimp these bullets? I am using 95 grain jhp magtechs, 115 jhp winchester, and 147 jhp xtps.
I have Unique, Red, Green and Blue dot powder from shotshell loads.
I loaded up about 10 rounds with 5 grains of Unique and a 95 grain bullet, did not crimp it and about half of them failed to eject. I suppose they were undercharged, since the recipe called for 6 grain. I was just approximating the 10% starting load reduction.
Any thoughts, ideas or ridicule?
Dan

[baker1425]

You're obviously not a newb, knowing how to smoke up bullets to find the perfect OAL, so I'd say you're on the right track.

I had the same kind of problems when i startd loading 9mm because of an apparent taper. I bought the Lee Factory Crimp Die and worked up my loads looking for overpressure indications. So, especially in the semi auto pistol, I'd reccomend a strong but not excessive crimp. I load the cheapest jacketed bullets in 9mm I can find and have run them through subguns without problems.

[Jim Watson]

Taper crimp with a regular or Lee CFC die.
This is more to aid smooth feeding than to hold the bullet in place.

No need to smoke and feel for the leade, pistol OAL is set to fit the magazine and feed reliably. Don't seat any deeper than necessary, it runs the pressure up much more than in a bottleneck rifle round.

Alliant shows Minimum OAL for that 147 gr XTP of 1.14" for their data.
The only batch of Winchester 115 gr JHPs I ever shot had a cannelure. If yours do, seat to it. If not, try the same 1.14". Hanged if I know about the 95 gr Magtech, maybe 1.05".

The powder companies furnish free load data. Get some. It is a lot easier to use than trying to look stuff up on the www unless your computer is a lot closer to your reloading press than mine is. If you are lucky, they will use a bullet you are interested in.

Green Dot is a pretty good standard load 9mm powder. Blue Dot is good for high velocity stuff. (But in a Kel-Tec? Not me.) Red Dot can be made to work, and Unique is very common. But check the powder level in your cases before you seat a bullet. If you are loading single stage, get 50 charged cases in a block and look at them under a strong light to be sure they all have the same amount of powder. If progressive, eyeball each case before you set the bullet on to be seated. A friend had some very erratic Unique loads because his powder measure was not handling the flake powder well.

A 5.0 grain load does not much approximate a 10% reduction of a 6.0 grain maximum. It is 16.67% less and I found that a 12% reduction was about the most that would function a 9mm I was loading light for a beginner.

[HD5]

Thanks for the replies, to be honest the reason I went down to 5 grains is it is readily marked on my scale. I guess I shouldn't have been lazy.
I will stay away from Blue Dot.
I have been weighing every charge so far. After I gain a little confidence I will probably check every fifth.
I can sure blast them a lot faster than I load em.
Thanks
Dan

[Poygan]

I load 9mm but sometimes wonder why? I'm still getting inconsistent results with cast but you are using jacketed stuff so that doesn't apply. Here's what I think I've learned: its a high pressure round with small case capacity and is a tapered case as so you can inadvertantly get very high pressures if the bullet is deep seated during cycling. With cast, I seem to get more primer pressure indications with faster powder like bullseye or red dot. I'm leaning more to HS-6, Accurate 9 or even blue dot. Haven't used BD much but seem to recall it fills the case nicely which can help moderate the deep seating I mentioned. I'd also try to stay with the same brand of cases as there seems to be a lot of variation with all the brands of 9mm out there. You might have some feeding issues with your pistol - I'm not familiar with it -using the JHPs. The FMJs are cheaper in bulk or maybe experiment with plated bullets for the same reasons.

[WESHOOT2]

IMI cases, CCI500's, OAL based on bullet used from 1.145--1.160"; I use 1.155" for RN.

Alliant Power Pistol / 3N37 / Ramshot Silhouette / HS6 / N350........and yes, Unique will work fine, too.

[HD5]

I loaded some of the 115 xtp at the beginning charge amount and seated to 1.12". They all worked great.
Didn't see any sign of excessive pressure.
I may try some of the 147 grain, but that looks like a lot of bullet for that case.
Dan

[larryf1952]

I've been reloading the 9mm since '76. All I've ever reloaded for it are 115 JHP's. I like 'em, so I stick with 'em. I've had enough time to figure out what works well, and what doesn't, in my guns, and I've developed what I consider to be some excellent 9mm loads. I load the 9 to combat velocities, just like I'd carry for personal defense, and that's what I shoot at the range. I've chronographed them at 1100 to over 1200 fps, without any signs of excessive pressure or primer flattening.

In the early days, I used Blue Dot, but it's a bit too slow for the 9, and the powder charges completely filled the case, almost overflowing. There were also too many unburnt flakes of powder with Blue Dot. I now reserve Blue Dot for only the .357 Magnum, in which it is excellent. AA#9 would be much too slow for the 9's small case, I'm afraid, but it'd likely work good in the .357, .41 and .44 Mags. I also stay away from powders like Bullseye in the 9...they're just too fast, and they pressure peak before the 9 has any chance of hitting it's available velocity performance. If you want slow little weeny loads, they might be OK, but in my view, that sort of defeats the potential and purpose of the 9mm.

I've long ago determined that the best powders for the 115 jacketed bullets seem to be the medium burn rate powders like HS6, AA#5, Power Pistol, and WSF. The goal is to gain maximum performance, complete powder combustion, clean burning, and safe pressures. These powders are very good at doing that. HS6 has been my favorite 9mm powder for many years, but WSF is neck and neck with HS6. HS6 gives me velocities just over 1200fps and burns clean as a whistle in the 9, with superb accuracy.

I determined 9mm OAL by measuring a factory round with the same bullet. When using Sierra or Nosler bullets, I'd adjust OAL by the difference in length between the bullets, in order to maintain the same case volume as the factory round. With the Remington 115JHP (not Golden Sabre), my OAL is 1.043"; with the 115 Hornady XTP, I seat to 1.051". I apply a firm, tight taper crimp (without crushing the cases!) with RCBS dies, and I've never had a bullet move in the case. All of these loads have consistently grouped 2" or under at 25 yards from my best guns, if I can hold them that tight.

[Fen]

I havn't been reloading too long but I was pointed in the right direction by some of my trusted elder in the field. I bought a can of HS6 and made the exact load it recomends on the label.

6.8gr powder
124gr JFP
cci500 primer
OAL is ~1.035
I also use a decent crimp.

I got a tougher recoil spring and went up to 7.5gr and it works nicely.

[BerettaBob]

What has been the experience out there with Winchester 231 for 9mm? I just started reloading and have 115 grain Hornady FMJ to reload. Win 231 was recommended by a friend.

[larryf1952]

BerettaBob, I'd put 231 into the same class as Bullseye for the 9mm. 231 is a fast burner, and you won't be able to make normal 9mm velocities before you hit the pressure peak. If you're interested in shooting light loads with low recoil, it's an adequate choice. I use 231 fairly often in low pressure rounds like the .38 Spl. and .45ACP, although I tend to prefer Bullseye. In the 9mm, I'd go on up to HS6 or AA#5, or another powder with that same general burn rate.

My HS6 load with 115JHP's is 6.6 grains @ 1213fps. My AA#5 load is also 6.6 grains @ 1175fps. With the Hornady XTP JHP, which is .548" long, I load to an OAL of 1.051". If your FMJ is longer, add that length to the OAL of the round. I'd also start out a little lighter, maybe around 6 grains or so, and work up. These loads are completely safe in my guns, but I can't accept responsibility for the reloading practices of others, so my recommendation would be to start out a little lower. Have fun and be safe!

[Poygan]

Correction: I meant to say AA-7, not AA-9.

[drinks]

Poygan;
I have good results with Unique/ Universal, seem to be almost the same, PB, an old IMR 20ga shotgun powder and for the heavier bullets, Herco, also an older shotgun powder, gives really good results in cast bullet loads in .41 mag., .44 sp. and .44-40 for loads at the lower range of factory loads with medium weight bullets, 180 -220 gr.
Don

[larryf1952]

drinks, thanks for reminding me about Herco. Early on, I used to use Herco quite a bit in the 9mm. It worked very well. As time went on, and I started to experiment with other powders, I sort of gave up on Herco because it was pretty difficult to meter it accurately from round to round, due to the large flake size. I was having to trickle every round to get the same charge in each case, so I finally gave up on it. It did perform on a par with HS6, though.

[caz223]

HS-6 for 9mm, WSF for .40 , unique for .45 acp.
I have a powder for each caliber, except for .41 and .44 mag, which share the can of H110.
I prolly should use 2400 in .41 mag, but I LIKE using H110 in it, so I continue to use it.

[Dogjaw]

Winchester 231
What has been the experience out there with Winchester 231 for 9mm? I just started reloading and have 115 grain Hornady FMJ to reload. Win 231 was recommended by a friend.

I tried 231 for 9mm and it sucked. Had a high number of stove pipes out of my XD9 sub. I switched to WSF and haven't had another problem. I'll save the 231 for my .38 and .357 target loads, in which it works extremely well.