What Gives with Cowboy Action Shooting?

[Jbar4Ranch]

Originally Posted by Shotgun693

I've shot with folks using Walkers and a couple of guys in wheelchairs.

Do you know how long I thought about why someone with disabilities would use a Walker, before I realized you meant walker? (I'm pretty slow til I have my first gallon of coffee!)

[Rawg the Huug]

You're slow? On my own, I'd have never realized it all & kept wondering. Can only expect so much from a Jarhead with Polish blood runnin' through my veins.

[Noz]

This type of thread turns up every six months or so.

We in SASS play a game. It is not hunting preparation nor is it intended to make you a proficient self defense shooter, it is a game with guns.

The "mouse fart" loads are a thing of the past in most events. the good shooters discovered that even they need some feedback from the gun to shoot well and shoot fast.

Close targets? Yes they are SASS is a game of speed and accuracy. We try to shoot fast and we do not have bulls eyes on the targets. We will, however penalize you for missing the targets and/or shooting them out of order.

Limited motion? Yes, in some cases. Our shooters are not teenagers and many of us are limited in the way we travel. Our rules of engagement lean heavily toward the safe side of shooting.

Funny clothes? Not necessarily. Long sleeve shirt(protection from hot brass) leather foot gear, and a pair of Levis and you fulfill all of the costume requirements. Hats are not even required. How much more you wish to add to the costuming is up to you. You can go whole hog and do the ultra fancy B-Western Category or Classic Cowboy category. The only thing we object to is t-shirts, baseball caps and tennis shoes.

Social event? You betcha. I shoot with my friends. I enjoy the shooting but I also enjoy their company. Our club makes it a policy that everyone at the shoot is invited to go to lunch together after the match concludes. These lunches will frequently run 2 hours or longer.

If you know these things up front then I don't see where the gripes come from.

If you are wondering, the current world record for shooting at and hitting 10 rifle from a lever action or pump rifle on 5 targets in two sweeps, 10 pistol from 2 single action revolvers on 5 targets in two sweeps and 4 shot gun targets knocked down is just under 14 seconds. All long guns are staged on a table rifle loaded with 10 rounds, hammer down on an empty chamber and shot gun staged open and empty. Pistols are loaded with 5 rounds and hammer down on an empty chamber.

If you get off of your high horse and try to play the game as it is being offered, you will have a good time. Even if you are an experienced shooter in other venues, expect to get your butt kicked by an awfully lot of shooters when you first enter our game.

If you come and try it with an open mind and don't like it, we wish you well and hope you find a game you like.

But, we'll be there next month with our funny clothes and guns and having a ball!

[Chaz88]

Do you need two pistols for this? I have thought about trying it but the only thing I still have that I think would qualify is a side by side shot gun. I have planed on getting a single action in .357 and a lever action to match, just for fun. Thought if I do I might give competition a try. The main reason for .357 is that I already load and shoot a lot of it.

[Hawg]

Yeah, you really need two. You can reload on the clock or borrow one til you get another.

[Hellgate]

Much of the impetus for more speed comes from those who are marketing it. i.e. gunsmith services, repacement kits, springs, ammo/bullet/holster makers, instructors who put on classes, and those who need a reputation in order to endorse the above, etc., etc., etc. The majority are like me, we just like to shoot, belch smoke & fire, and compete against ourselves or a few friends in the same category. The one thing that distinguishes SASS from IPSC is there are no money prizes which has pretty much kept the sport amature and friendly to those who aren't fast for a variety of reasons (age, weight, arthritis, war wounds, etc.). A lot of the complaints about CAS can pretty much be focused on who is running the individual clubs. Some clubs are very into speed if the cowboy club president is too but not necessarily. Some clubs are run by "my way or the highway" types and others are pretty much fun loving and more tolerant. Typically, the my way/highway clubs will have blowups that lead to the formation of new cowboy clubs that are much more welcoming, open to new ideas and much less uptight. Those newer clubs are more fun to shoot at.

[NickW]

Many thanks to all who replied; after perusing the NCOWS web site I guess -in my ignorance- I thought that’s what SASS aspired to be; however, after looking at the SASS web site they appear to be based on social gatherings than western historical significance circa 1865 -1899 and that’s just fine too. Yet, for me NCOWS is more in line with what I consider Cowboy Action Shooting, sadly the nearest chapter is > 1K miles away. In any event, any organization that promotes any firearm sport is fine with me, so rock-on SASS and NCOWS.

[Tanker6]

Originally Posted by Noz

This type of thread turns up every six months or so.

We in SASS play a game. It is not hunting preparation nor is it intended to make you a proficient self defense shooter, it is a game with guns.

The "mouse fart" loads are a thing of the past in most events. the good shooters discovered that even they need some feedback from the gun to shoot well and shoot fast.

Close targets? Yes they are SASS is a game of speed and accuracy. We try to shoot fast and we do not have bulls eyes on the targets. We will, however penalize you for missing the targets and/or shooting them out of order.

Limited motion? Yes, in some cases. Our shooters are not teenagers and many of us are limited in the way we travel. Our rules of engagement lean heavily toward the safe side of shooting.

Funny clothes? Not necessarily. Long sleeve shirt(protection from hot brass) leather foot gear, and a pair of Levis and you fulfill all of the costume requirements. Hats are not even required. How much more you wish to add to the costuming is up to you. You can go whole hog and do the ultra fancy B-Western Category or Classic Cowboy category. The only thing we object to is t-shirts, baseball caps and tennis shoes.

Social event? You betcha. I shoot with my friends. I enjoy the shooting but I also enjoy their company. Our club makes it a policy that everyone at the shoot is invited to go to lunch together after the match concludes. These lunches will frequently run 2 hours or longer.

If you know these things up front then I don't see where the gripes come from.

If you are wondering, the current world record for shooting at and hitting 10 rifle from a lever action or pump rifle on 5 targets in two sweeps, 10 pistol from 2 single action revolvers on 5 targets in two sweeps and 4 shot gun targets knocked down is just under 14 seconds. All long guns are staged on a table rifle loaded with 10 rounds, hammer down on an empty chamber and shot gun staged open and empty. Pistols are loaded with 5 rounds and hammer down on an empty chamber.

If you get off of your high horse and try to play the game as it is being offered, you will have a good time. Even if you are an experienced shooter in other venues, expect to get your butt kicked by an awfully lot of shooters when you first enter our game.

If you come and try it with an open mind and don't like it, we wish you well and hope you find a game you like.

But, we'll be there next month with our funny clothes and guns and having a ball!

I need to copy this to my hard drive so that it can be repeated every six months or so when somebody makes the same inquiry. I don't think it can be said any better than that.

And as for "mouse fart" loads....well, I guess I've not been shooting SASS/CAS long enough (about a year) because I've not seen any. I know I wouldn't want to be shot by a 125 gn lead bullet at 800 fps out of a .38 special.....at least if that's the definition of "mouse fart" loads.

[Fingers McGee]

Originally Posted by Tanker6

I need to copy this to my hard drive so that it can be repeated every six months or so when somebody makes the same inquiry. I don't think it can be said any better than that.

+1. Noz does have a way with words.

[Hawg]

And as for "mouse fart" loads....well, I guess I've not been shooting SASS/CAS long enough (about a year) because I've not seen any. I know I wouldn't want to be shot by a 125 gn lead bullet at 800 fps out of a .38 special...

A mouse fart runs about 400 fps.

[Tanker6]

Originally Posted by Hawg Haggen

A mouse fart runs about 400 fps.

So, you've got scientific data to back that up? Nevermind....tmi.....

[Shotgun693]

125 gn lead bullet at 800 fps out of a .38 special...

One of the Gamers was recently talking about his 88 gr bullet at 600 fps, yes Mouse Farts.

[Fingers McGee]

One of the Gamers was recently talking about his 88 gr bullet at 600 fps, yes Mouse Farts.

Then he was shooting illegal ammunition. Minimum power factor is 60. His 88 at 600 only makes 52. It would have to be pushed out at at least 682 fps to be legal. A 150 grain bullet at 400 fps would be legal.

[Jbar4Ranch]

A .36 cal .380" round ball would weigh in around that, and there is no minimum power factor for C&B's.

[JacqueEagonSr]

The clubs I shoot with in the Cleburne, Texas area do this right. SASS/CAS and Wild Bunch are based on 'the Spirit of the Game'. This rhymes with good sportsmanship. There are a few 'rules' about what firearms can be used, how powerful the ammo must be and what clothes to wear. But, everyone follows the two basic rules of "be safe" and "have fun". If some young competitive minded fellow wants to shoot loads that go 'puff puff puff ' and shoots a stage is 23 seconds, that's fine. He's being safe and having fun. If some old phart like me wants the shoot near factory loads that go BOOM BOOM and shoots the same stage in 64.8 seconds, that's fine. I'm safe and having fun. So, get your hat, boots, and guns. Come out, be safe and have fun. You'll find a bunch of folks ready to help you out and do you a favor, expecting nothing more than you living the 'spirit of the game' and doing the same for someone else when it's your turn.

[Fingers McGee]

Originally Posted by Jbar4Ranch

A .36 cal .380" round ball would weigh in around that, and there is no minimum power factor for C&B's.

True. But I wouldn't exactly call a Frontiersman a gamer.

[NickW]

Mouse Farts are fast though:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1BwU...eature=related

[ZVP]

When you first look at the sport it looks simple, dress up like a Cowboy, shoot guns as fast as ys can and then cowboy party, BBQ, etc.
Well you have the gamers who shoot for trophys. Usually shoot .38's light loaded. Fast and furious action with shotgun and rifles. The lighter loaded the better for speed,recoil, and recovery and accuracy.
The the traditionalists who dress the part exactlly to change in their pockets and authentic guns. Speed is not as important as shooting the real thing. Trophys arent as important as historical correctness.
You then have the rest who can't afford or don't care as much for historical perfection but want to participate. they usually shoot Ubertis and Rugers any caliber, cheaper or used rifles and double barrel shotguns. Tey want to do it all and most DO! They don't often place in the top 10 or win any awards for costume but they seem to have the most fun because they are getting in on it!
For my opnion you have to dress the part correctlly and shoot a decent gun (Rugers are cool!) A Rossie 92 will do and a doublr for a shotgun. Go and play at it and have fun! You don't need to go overboard with costume but locking down a time period is necessary to look "right".
I'm still gathering equipment so it'll be a while for me to get shooting. I am shooting a .357 Vaquero. Lower cost pratice.
No .22's and no pipsqueak rounds full CAS loads.
ZVP

[Carolina Cowboy]

PLUS 100 on what Noz said, it is a game that is a blast (pun intented)....a game where the last place finisher is having as much fun as the first place finisher, and at most clubs, the last place finisher won the same prize as the first place finisher........the only game I have played, where you can go as slow or as fast as you want to, and have equel fun doing it your way, SASS is ALL ABOUT FUN ( safety first of course)

[Magnum Wheel Man]

newbie to CAS this last year... I have my own shooting range, & could probably hold my own on the TV show "Top Shot" as I shoot many, many different type of guns...

my 1st CAS match I did horrible... but I had enough fun to do it again... I was only competing against myself, & started a spread sheet, documenting my progress... in a nut shell, I cut 10 seconds off my time each time I went back, except for the last time, in which I had a rifle feeding issue, but still managed to improve my time, & shoot my 1st clean match...

my goal is classic cowboy... I guess I feel that if I'm cowboy shooting, I aught to dress the part... I haven't bought "old style pants" yet, or vintage shirts, but wear western shirts & button fly jeans, cowboy boots, spurs, hat, chaps ( chinks ) & leather cuffs, suspenders, & what not... when my wife starts shooting next year ( & I give up my 38 / 357 for a 45 Colt lever gun ) I think I'll have enough of the clothing requirements, & big enough cartridges to play that game... which won't change anything for me, as I'll still be just competing against myself...

BTW... I shot at the state championship ( no, I'm not that good, but they encouraged me to shoot for the expirience )... there were guys shooting booming black powder cartridge loads that filled the whole stage with thick black powder smoke, & gamers shooting 32 caliber light loads, & everything in between... plenty of period clothing vendors, & race ready guns for sale... I was glad I went, even though I placed in the bottom 10% ( I still improved from my previous match )

BTW #2... it can be tactical training for guys who like to carry single action revolvers ( which I do )... you learn to shoot fast, & point shoot... no bulls eyes on bad guys... I've improved my CCW shooting alot in both speed & effective accuracy since I started shooting cowboy... in fact I carry a snubbie version of my cowboy guns, & over the winter I'll be switching to matching birdshead grips, so that everything become 2nd nature... I have a buddy that carrys semi auto, & he feels more confident carrying, because of all the practice point shooting, he's been getting from shooting cowboy... sure there are better games if your a semi auto guy... but the speed practice & the bigger targets still helps for most shooting diciplines

[graysmoke]

Cowboy Action....Just a fancy made-up term.

Ask any real cowboy, about their Action....
They would reply "Cowboy Action"? "It's a fine little honey sitting on my lap".

[rodent.22]

light loads= WATCHING the .38's travel to the target....Impatience to new shooters, and unbreakable cliques made my SASS group get old very quickly. I did my best to blend in for a year, finally stayed at home. Won't go back. Best of luck to them all....

[salvadore]

I watched you tube stuff and noticed the capgun like recoil and asked about it on another forum. Some answered politely and honestly and others got all snotty about it. Who needs that?

[Hellgate]

Rodent,
You just ran into a bum club. Are there any others within easy driving distance? We have a club around here that keeps running people off but guess what? There are two other clubs that formed as a result and they are very welcoming of new talent.

[Fingers McGee]

What Hellgate said. I shoot at four clubs in Missouri. One is just as welcoming as the next.