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September 15, 2011, 11:57 AM | #51 |
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I think that the "full faith and credit" clause means that if I have a permit to CCW in Virginia, then other States have to respect that I have a permit to CCW in Virginia, but they do not have to treat it as a permit to CCW in their State ... this new interpretation of the "full faith and credit" clause, where State permits have to be treated as interstate permits, seems like another giant leap towards consolidation.
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September 15, 2011, 03:04 PM | #52 |
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Here's what would happen if this bill passes and is signed into law (as improbable as it may be), the way the bill currently reads:
If you are a resident of MD; CA; NJ; NYC; and to a greater or lessor extent, NY; MA and CT, your not having a resident permit, you will not be able to carry in your resident State. Yet, everyone else who has a permit (resident or non resident) will be allowed to CC in your State. That is the bulk of US citizens that will not be able to exercise a fundamental right, in their own State. |
September 15, 2011, 05:05 PM | #53 | |
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September 15, 2011, 06:31 PM | #54 | |
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Illinois for instance requires a FOID to purchase a handgun or ammunition if I remember reading correctly. Are they going to let me carry the handgun I bought at a Virginia yard sale and let me have a box of spare ammo in the glove box with no FOID? Or is all this going to work itself out?
Sounds like something lawyers may get a wonky kick out of observing....as the nuances and loopholes get ironed out nationwide, but some of us maybe not so much as Random Officer Upset locks us in the pokey. I'll just watch this one with a bit of skepticism as I keep to the states I trust.
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September 15, 2011, 07:29 PM | #55 | |
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September 15, 2011, 07:33 PM | #56 | |
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September 15, 2011, 08:50 PM | #57 | |
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Incidentally, Dave Kopel spoke to Congress regarding the bill, and the transcript is up at Volokh.
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September 16, 2011, 04:55 PM | #58 | |
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September 16, 2011, 08:22 PM | #59 | |
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September 16, 2011, 10:43 PM | #60 | |
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http://legal-dictionary.thefreedicti...+Credit+Clause |
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September 17, 2011, 10:18 PM | #61 |
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Despite your interpretation of the "full faith and credit" clause, there have traditionally been State permits i.e. intrastate permits which other States do not have to recognize. CCW permits fall into this category, and to construe it otherwise would in fact be something new, not some settled/traditional construction as you seem to imagine.
Regardless, I don't recall that H.R. 822 relies on the "full faith and credit" clause. IIRC, it asserts that the right to carry a concealed weapon is protected by the 2nd and 14th Amendments, and that it is an interstate commerce issue ... and also that it reduces crime, as if they're saying that reciprocity is for the "general welfare". Can anyone think of a precedent, where federal legislation asserts that something is a constitutionally protected right, and an interstate commerce issue, yet recognizes that States can disallow it? "One of the great distinctions of the American system is that we try always to distinguish between the means and the end - between the goal itself, and the way in which a goal is reached." -Virginia Commission on Constitutional Government, 1963 |
September 17, 2011, 11:57 PM | #62 |
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To the guy that was talking about Denver...
Denver honors CCW's from any state that the state of Colorado has reciprocity with. No need to stow the gun in the glove compartment. BUT, do NOT try to open carry. Anywhere within the state, pretty much, unless you're up in the mountains. |
September 18, 2011, 12:08 AM | #63 | |
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I know it is not, so something akin to this bill is necessary. |
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September 23, 2011, 05:42 PM | #64 | |
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It seems a lot more complicated than just saying that the FF&C should mean that States must recognize CCW permits like they do driver's licenses. I don't know enough about all types of State permits to comprehend the end result of forcing reciprocity upon them all, but it seems evident that the FF&C clause had no such intent. |
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September 23, 2011, 08:23 PM | #65 |
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Hugh? This time I agree 100% with you.
Think about it, folks. If the FF&C clause did what some of you think it does, then why did the Feds have to try and "blackmail" the States into accepting the REAL ID? Why didn't the Federal Congress simply mandate the changes? The answer is that the Feds have no power whatsoever over State issued drivers licenses. It is strictly a State police power. It was the States that decided reciprocity between each other, not the feds. |
September 23, 2011, 10:48 PM | #66 | |
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Frankly, I have real doubts as to whether H.R. 822 will pass the Senate. Furthermore, I worry what will happen if more restrictive states choose to "opt out" of compliance by refusing to issue permits to even their own residents.
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September 24, 2011, 08:07 AM | #67 | |
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From the NRA-ILA this morning,
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