The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: General Handgun Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old March 8, 2013, 09:17 PM   #26
PT-92
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 20, 2007
Location: "Undisclosed Bunker"
Posts: 1,464
+1 on the CCI recs above. Love em and they cycle even all of my Semi .22lr handguns reliably. Another comparable "hot-load" .22lr are the Aguila Super Maximum 30-gr. HP which are also very reliable for cycling semi-action pistols. That said, .22lr is by no means a recommended defensive round (though I carry a Bobcat 21A BUG) but it is also not to be dismissed if that is what you have at hand. Now for target ammo just get the chaep Bulk boxes of really any major brand (WallyWorld stuff is fine for cheap practice).

Prior to the "PANIC" I purchased a GSG 1911-22 specifically to save money by usiing this fine almost exact model of my actual .45acp 1911. But heck, now I cannot even find .22lr ammo to shoot at the moment (moments are turning into days, days into weeks, weeks into months etc...).

Be proud and become expert-like with whatever you have at hand and when you get the chance to "upgrade" and so desire, go for it. Lastly, another option for budget-minded individuals (anymore that means essentially all of us ) a good solid pump-shotgun which still can be had for well under $300 in this panic--for HD/CQB IMO it reigns supreme.
__________________
NRA Life Member
“A free people ought...to be armed..."
George Washington
PT-92 is offline  
Old March 9, 2013, 11:08 AM   #27
skoro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 30, 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,952
I'll break from the crowd here and say Winchester Super-X Powerpoints. They're a full 40 grains and have a wicked hollow point. I haven't shot them out of a handgun, but from a rifle they're real effective on anything I've shot, up to critters a 22LR has no business taking down.

Nothing against CCI, though. MiniMags, Stingers, and Velocitors are all rounds I've used a lot and they all work real well, too.
skoro is offline  
Old March 20, 2013, 01:02 AM   #28
biohazurd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 29, 2009
Posts: 340
When i first started carrying the only gun i had was a Smith 34-1 4". It was underpowered yes but i got my permit and figured it was better then a stick. For my self defence load i chose the 40gr minimag round nose. Most hollow points i had fired in ballistic tests from .22 handguns had very poor penetration. Sometimes less then 5 inches in gel. The round nose may not expand but i trusted it to dig much deeper in a would be murderer, allowing for a better chance at hitting vital organs. Just my 2 cents.
biohazurd is offline  
Old March 20, 2013, 06:49 AM   #29
m_liebst
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 301
I'd choose any "full 40 grain non-hollow point ammo" made by CCI for the ignition reliability. I've shot well over 9 K rounds of CCI ammo-(majority being blazers)..- and not 1 dud so far. Would never bet my life on Remington, Winchester, or even Federal for that matter- IMO.

The frangible ammo isn't reliable for deep penetration, as well as anything less than 40 grains.

CCI Velocitors would be a great choice despite their shallow dimple of a hollow point. This is a P+P+ full 40 g. load of the .22lr realm with a controlled expansion.
There's actually only slight expansion in most medium.

Practice practice practice.....

Last edited by m_liebst; March 20, 2013 at 06:55 AM.
m_liebst is offline  
Old March 21, 2013, 09:42 PM   #30
Deaf Smith
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 31, 2000
Location: Texican!
Posts: 4,453
Quote:
My question is what 22 shell would be good for home defense if that's all you have.
Any good high velocity .22 round like Remington Golden .22s.

See the .22 for home defense relies on accurate shot placement more than anything.

A good Ruger 10/22 rifle with 10 to 25 round mags makes a real good HD long gun (I prefer the 16 bbl 'bantam' versions myself for this) and a reliable .22 pistol also.

Good thing is you can actually practice with your HD ammo alot (well you will once the ammo craze dies down.)

Deaf
__________________
“To you who call yourselves ‘men of peace,’ I say, you are not safe without men of action by your side” Thucydides
Deaf Smith is offline  
Old March 21, 2013, 10:03 PM   #31
Dragline45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 30, 2010
Posts: 3,513
I would go with FMJ CCI Mini Mags. Stingers are great and all but don't function 100% in all .22's due to the longer profile.
Dragline45 is offline  
Old March 21, 2013, 11:15 PM   #32
lechiffre
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 3, 2008
Location: phoenix,az
Posts: 513
Quote:
My question is what 22 shell would be good for home defense if that's all you have

1. Disregard any notion of what is going to be the best "stopper"

2. Use whatever is the most reliable in your gun. (could be different for each one)

3. Accuracy is a tie breaker
__________________
if God hadn't meant us to shoot he wouldn't have given us trigger fingers

do the interns get glocks ?
lechiffre is offline  
Old March 22, 2013, 02:17 PM   #33
James K
Member In Memoriam
 
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 24,383
Accuracy (within reason) is the least important factor in a defense firearm.

Reliability of gun and ammunition is the most important factor, and I think that relates to what I also consider important - confidence. Confidence that the tool available will do the job and confidence that you can handle it properly.

Jim
James K is offline  
Old March 22, 2013, 02:32 PM   #34
-Xero-
Junior member
 
Join Date: March 14, 2013
Posts: 51
Some considerable time ago, someone posted regarding ammo choices:

"Stick with the Big Five: Federal, Remington, Winchester, CCI, Peters." -- not necessarily in that order. Once upon a time I owned a Jennings semi-auto in 22 cal. 6+1 capacity I think. I never felt that it wouldn't at least seriously slow down an assault.

Quote:
If you can place a round in the brainpain any .22 will work.
If 22 LR was what I had available, I'd get into the mind-set of emptying the gun, pretty much point-blank, center of mass. Would be nice to have a mag option, rather than having to reload a revolver.

Head shot is good IN THEORY, but in fact the first thing that goes in a defensive situation is small muscle control. You want to go for CENTER OF MASS, and be close enough that you'll hit it. (Under 10 feet). The SECOND part of your 22 cal. strategy is to develop and refine a speedy retreat.

ANY firearm serves as a potent deterrent. No one facing down the muzzle of a 22 LR handgun is going to taunt and cajole. The ol' 22 cal. is a favorite choice for hit-men in the mob -- because it's LETHAL.

At the risk of seeming to side w/ DKS Joe Biden -- your apparent budget constraints and current availability would suggest that a used 12 gauge would be an excellent choice.

Chuck Karwan in "Combat Handgunnery" -- in the FIRST chapter -- advises: "Never take a handgun to a gun fight." You want a rifle or shotgun. I had a State Trooper, when I asked him how he liked his 1911 Colt Gold Cup compared to the standard issue Glock 22, also noted: "The side arm serves only to cover my butt until I can get to the long guns in the squad car."

Used shotgun should come easy --

Last edited by -Xero-; March 22, 2013 at 02:47 PM.
-Xero- is offline  
Old March 22, 2013, 08:54 PM   #35
treg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 26, 2006
Posts: 1,102
CCI Velocitors or Winchester Super-X 40 Grain Hyper Velocity shells.

Both are heavy / fast rounds as .22 LR's go with well designed HP bullets and they pack a wallup.
__________________
.44 Special: For those who get it, no explanation is necessary. For those who don't, no explanation is possible.
treg is offline  
Old March 22, 2013, 10:00 PM   #36
Onward Allusion
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2009
Location: Back in a Non-Free State
Posts: 3,133
Quote:
delsol
Twenty Two
All I have is two 22 pistols & one rifle. My question is what 22 shell would be good for home defense if that's all you have.<SNIP>
CCI Stinger for hard(er) hitting and reliability. It is probably the most reliable 22LR cartridge around.

I've shot Stingers from the 90's and they were still fresh as the day they were produced. No excess smoke, a good loud bang, & decent "recoil" (as much recoil as you can get from a 22LR). All of which are good indicators.

I suspect it is because Stingers are one of the only 22LR cartridges with a roll crimp (like 22 Mags). All other 22LR cartridges I know of have heeled bullets where moisture can get in over the long run.

If I were going to use 22LR for defense, I'd take a box - shoot half & load the other half in the same firearm.
__________________
Simple as ABC . . . Always Be Carrying
Onward Allusion is offline  
Old March 23, 2013, 12:07 AM   #37
Webleymkv
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 10,435
CCI Velocitors would be my choice in .22 LR. While they are a hollowpoint, they won't typically expand from a handgun, which is probably a good thing because the lack of expansion enhances penetration. What I like about them is that not only do they penetrate reasonably well for a .22, but they also tend to destabilize and yaw at handgun velocities.
Webleymkv is offline  
Old March 23, 2013, 01:35 AM   #38
Bill DeShivs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2006
Posts: 10,967
Stingers use a heeled bullet just like every other .22 lr.
__________________
Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler
www.billdeshivs.com
Bill DeShivs is online now  
Old March 23, 2013, 01:56 AM   #39
ryan3465
Member
 
Join Date: March 17, 2013
Posts: 46
Twenty Two

I load my NAA .22LR with 3 CCI Mini-Mags first for the penetration issue as stated above, and then with two CCI Stingers as follow ups. I figure with the first three ill get my penetration to vital areas, and if things are still unpleasant at that point, the Stingers will give all of what little energy transfer there is from a .22. Just my thoughts.

Stay safe
-Ryan
ryan3465 is offline  
Old March 23, 2013, 11:15 AM   #40
Onward Allusion
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2009
Location: Back in a Non-Free State
Posts: 3,133
Quote:
Bill DeShivs
Stingers use a heeled bullet just like every other .22 lr.
So I had to trudge over the moat surrounding my man-cave, down its bunker, and dig down 3 feet of dirt to dig out my stash of CCI Stingers.

Well, I guess we are both right. CCI Stingers used to have a crimp. The pics show a box from <gasp> Sports Authority (which doesn't sell firearms any longer) from the 90's.

I also checked the new boxes...nope...no crimp...all smooth. Kinda sad actually. Country's going to hell in a hand-basket (and I say that only with a bit of tongue in cheek).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg OLD Stinger Box sm.jpg (155.5 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg OLD Stinger Crimp sm.jpg (118.6 KB, 26 views)
__________________
Simple as ABC . . . Always Be Carrying
Onward Allusion is offline  
Old March 23, 2013, 11:21 AM   #41
skoro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 30, 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,952
Quote:
All I have is two 22 pistols & one rifle.
CCI Velocitors from the rifle. The barrel length will let its velocity build up to where it's supposed to be. From the pistols, I think Winchester Power Points would be the thing. Those big hollow points would probably work even from shorter barrels.
skoro is offline  
Old March 23, 2013, 02:02 PM   #42
Super Sneaky Steve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 9, 2011
Posts: 1,246
I carry Stingers in my Bobcat. Mini Mags are more accurate and use a heavier bullet, but the Stingers use a nickel plated case so they cycle real smooth.

Stingers also turn my M&P 15-22 into a real good fighting weapon.
Super Sneaky Steve is offline  
Old March 23, 2013, 02:08 PM   #43
Bill DeShivs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2006
Posts: 10,967
Crimped or not, they are heeled bullets.
__________________
Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler
www.billdeshivs.com
Bill DeShivs is online now  
Old March 23, 2013, 05:32 PM   #44
Onward Allusion
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2009
Location: Back in a Non-Free State
Posts: 3,133
Ok - Heeled bullets WITH a rolled crimp.

Still, no other 22LR that I have run across that has that and it seems neither does CCI Stingers anymore.

Going back to the OP, if I were relying on 22LR for defensive purposes, I would change out the ammo on a regular basis and more often if using 22LR for carry.
__________________
Simple as ABC . . . Always Be Carrying
Onward Allusion is offline  
Old March 23, 2013, 10:21 PM   #45
Cheapshooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 2007
Location: Missouri
Posts: 8,306
Quote:
Another comparable "hot-load" .22lr are the Aguila Super Maximum 30-gr. HP which are also very reliable for cycling semi-action pistols.
Not in my Walther P22. They were 100% unreliable. No exageration, not a single round fully functionrd tye slide. It would eject the spent case, but not pick up a new live round. The P22 as been very reliable with other types of ammo from RGB to CCI MiniMag. My guess is that the light bullet didn't provide enough recoil force to push the slide completely back far enough to pick up the new round.
__________________
Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!
Cheapshooter is offline  
Old March 23, 2013, 11:37 PM   #46
PT-92
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 20, 2007
Location: "Undisclosed Bunker"
Posts: 1,464
Quote:
Cheapshooter

Another comparable "hot-load" .22lr are the Aguila Super Maximum 30-gr. HP which are also very reliable for cycling semi-action pistols.
Not in my Walther P22. They were 100% unreliable. No exageration, not a single round fully functionrd tye slide...
That's quite interesting in that it's a hotter load than the Stinger which would seem to lead one to believe that it would operate a semi's action even more reliably...? I know that's the case with all of mine as well as my range buddies via SIG 1911-22's, SR22's and M&P pistols as well (granted no Walther's though).
__________________
NRA Life Member
“A free people ought...to be armed..."
George Washington
PT-92 is offline  
Old March 24, 2013, 10:41 AM   #47
Cheapshooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 2007
Location: Missouri
Posts: 8,306
I think I have one more box of the Aguila so I might give it a try in my Buckmark, and PT22 Poly. Not planning to feed theme a regular diet of it however.
__________________
Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!
Cheapshooter is offline  
Old March 24, 2013, 11:10 AM   #48
PT-92
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 20, 2007
Location: "Undisclosed Bunker"
Posts: 1,464
Good point--I typically will break in my .22lr. semis with either the CCI or Aquila hot-stuff. Once I have done so I use the cheap bulk stuff almost exclusively to save both money and wear and tear (my BUG's always have Stingers). The example that immediately comes to mind is the SIG Mosquito which consistently jammed on all ammo until several hundred rounds of Stingers were run through it. It's kind of analogous to how I use the +P ammo in my larger calibers.
__________________
NRA Life Member
“A free people ought...to be armed..."
George Washington
PT-92 is offline  
Old March 24, 2013, 11:20 AM   #49
jimbob86
Junior member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 8,722
Quote:
No one facing down the muzzle of a 22 LR handgun is going to taunt and cajole.
Oh, I dunno ..... there was a guy awhile back in South Omaha that continued to challenge the homeowner to a fight after being shot in the leg with a .22 rifle ..... he eventually rushed the homeowner again, and was shot in the chest .......

What was it Einstein said about Hydrogen and Human Stupidity?
jimbob86 is offline  
Old March 24, 2013, 11:21 AM   #50
marine6680
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 24, 2012
Location: Parker, CO
Posts: 4,594
While most would not recommend 22lr as a primary round for defense... sometimes its all that you have available.

And while any bullet can be deadly if it hits just the right spot or other circumstances line up... There are round choices that help increase your chances of stopping an attacker.

Because 22lr is so much smaller in mass and cross sectional area than common pistol calibers, and the velocity is much less than the closest sized rifle round (.223/5.56mm)... the only thing you can really rely on is adequate penetration for effect on the target. So you need to pick rounds that maximize penetration.


The CCI Velocitors work well in pistols. The short barrel lowers velocity and the bullet does not expand and acts like a solid point. Because of the lower velocity of a pistol, expansion would lead to poor penetration.

Velocitors out of a 3" barrel will penetrate about 15" in gel tests.

I believe they penetrate about the same out of a rifle, with the added benifit of expansion, due to the higher velocity.

If you can not find Velocitors, which is most likely, get some CCI solid point Minimags. Not the hollowpoints, as they will not penetrate as well out of a pistol, and rifles will not let them penetrate much better. About 8" and 12" penetration in gel respectively, if memory serves.

If you can't find those... any 40gr solid point bullet with at least 1200fps velocity should work. The problem is that 22lr is known to have unreliable ignition. CCI is the most reliable, I have never had a round of CCI (not including bulk CCI) fail to fire on the first strike. This is why most people recommend CCI for defense roles if 22lr is all you have.

Most of the quality brands are almost as reliable, so long as you do not buy them in bulk.

If bulk is all you can find, I find the Blazer (made by CCI) to be good, and also the Winchester M-22. Both are 40gr solid points.

But do not forget feeding reliability... any round that will not feed reliably in your gun is never a good choice, no matter how good of performance it has down range on a target.

Last edited by marine6680; March 24, 2013 at 11:38 AM.
marine6680 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.11641 seconds with 11 queries