Why did homeland security buy millions of 135 grain .40? - Page 3

WESHOOT2 · June 20, 2010, 08:15 AM

Maybe just maybe from the muzzle end (maybe), but most definitely NOT on the end we hold on to......

Think think think think think, ay?

stevedscross · June 20, 2010, 11:17 PM

Just to correct the U.S. Secret Service carries the Sig P229 in .357 sig not in 40 S&W. However the US Coast Gaurd uses the P229 in .40.
ICE uses the H&K in .40. The guy who said Air Marshalls carry in .357 sig is also correct they don't carry a .40. There are also other agentcies that carry a .40 like BATF, USMS, both list it as optional.
I can't remember where FBI is in things now but they issue one of five guns and allow others. Last I checked they issue either a Glock 22, G23, G17, G19, and of course the 1911 for the HRT teams.

zenner22 · June 21, 2010, 07:38 AM

ICE carries Sig 229s in 40.

**Mike Irwin** · June 21, 2010, 08:43 AM

Why?

Because it was an administrative decision based on a recommendation from a panel that chose the original duty weapon in the first place.

After that ammunition supply is more a factor of lowest bid based on issued specifications rather than that same panel going over reams of ballistics data.

scorpiusdeus · June 21, 2010, 01:27 PM

Mike-Mat · June 22, 2010, 10:41 AM

Why? Because they can afford to but whatever they want. After all, they have our money to do it with. You dont have to make good/smart decisions when you have unlimited funds.

Sure the 9mm would work fine. But there's a new toy on the block and they all want one. .40S&W for Everyone. Woo Woo !

tipoc · June 22, 2010, 11:03 AM

Let's keep this thread going!

Mike-Mat · June 22, 2010, 11:17 AM

After you wrap that cat in foil, how long do you have to cook it?

Adrian · June 22, 2010, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgcoastie

Do you honestly think any of the firearms, ammunition, and weapon accessory companies are hurting for cash?

Where have you been for the past two years?

I don't know about tipoc, but I watched ATK's stock lose 30%, unfortunately...

But then the bailout should be going to Federal, not Winchester. Olin's doing fine.

indykappa · June 22, 2010, 03:09 PM

i am not an expert, and don't have alot of experience with the 40s&w round (although i will be picking one up in a month)...

but i am with WESHOOT (post #48)...what if they purchased this round because it works?!

i know it's a light round...i get that. but what if it REALLY DOES WORK?

i found it a bit interesting that nobody replied to WESHOOT's last comment

TampaJim · June 23, 2010, 08:22 AM

Quote:

why the 135 at such a low velocity?

Since when is 1200 fps "low velocity"?

pythagorean · June 23, 2010, 08:33 AM

I don't really appreciate the .40 SW I admit it. I had one in a Browning Hi Power. It was a great gun but the round is an "in between" in my mind to the 9mm and .45.
Funny thing is the .41 Magnum was an "in between" but it packs a LOT more punch than the auto round.

So why did Homeland Security buy those 40SW rounds?

I can think of another question that questions the effectiveness of Homeland Security altogether and that makes me mum on this one.

scorpiusdeus · June 23, 2010, 01:14 PM

Size, Speed, and capacity, the .40 S&W offers the best of all three.

It's bigger than a 9mm, faster than a .45, and comes in MANY platforms that have reasonable capacity, not much less than 9mm and much more than .45.

I own 4 different brands of handgun .40 S&W that I can have a 9mm barrel and mags for, and .357 Sig barrels for.

In these handguns I have three potential calibers in one weapon.

What's not to love?

I'm unaware of any study showing the the .40 S&W is any worse and dispatching bad guys than 9mm or .45.

All we're really talking about here is preference ans prejudice.

I don't dislike ANY caliber that may save my life some day.

Erik · June 25, 2010, 10:07 PM

I know a variety of personnel spread across DHS components which carry pistols chambered in .357 Sig and .40 S&W. Of those with the 40s, none can recall being issued anything other than 155 and 180 grain varieties from various manufacturers.

scorpion_tyr · June 25, 2010, 10:28 PM

Quote:

You can get the same results with 125 grain 9mm at 1250 fps

No, you can't. 9mm is smaller around than .40. Bigger bullets make bigger holes. The bigger the hole, the more blood that comes out, so the faster the kill. Velocity and energy don't mean crap until you get into the rifle ammo.

**Mal H** · June 27, 2010, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super-Dave

Why did homeland security buy millions of 135 grain .40?

Answer: Because they needed them.

Closed.

June 20, 2010, 08:15 AM	#51
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	"Same results" Maybe just maybe from the muzzle end (maybe), but most definitely NOT on the end we hold on to...... Think think think think think, ay? __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

June 21, 2010, 08:43 AM	#54
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	Why? Because it was an administrative decision based on a recommendation from a panel that chose the original duty weapon in the first place. After that ammunition supply is more a factor of lowest bid based on issued specifications rather than that same panel going over reams of ballistics data. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

June 22, 2010, 10:41 AM	#56
Mike-Mat Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2010 Location: Phoenix area Posts: 361	Why? Because they can afford to but whatever they want. After all, they have our money to do it with. You dont have to make good/smart decisions when you have unlimited funds. Sure the 9mm would work fine. But there's a new toy on the block and they all want one. .40S&W for Everyone. Woo Woo ! __________________ Mike Mattera - Tips For Mfg Video Training For CadCam Systems http://www.tipsforcadcam.com

June 22, 2010, 11:17 AM	#58
Mike-Mat Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2010 Location: Phoenix area Posts: 361	After you wrap that cat in foil, how long do you have to cook it? __________________ Mike Mattera - Tips For Mfg Video Training For CadCam Systems http://www.tipsforcadcam.com

June 22, 2010, 03:09 PM	#60
indykappa Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2010 Location: charlotte, nc (but indianapolis is home) Posts: 100	not an expert... i am not an expert, and don't have alot of experience with the 40s&w round (although i will be picking one up in a month)... but i am with WESHOOT (post #48)...what if they purchased this round because it works?! i know it's a light round...i get that. but what if it REALLY DOES WORK? i found it a bit interesting that nobody replied to WESHOOT's last comment

June 20, 2010, 11:17 PM	#52
stevedscross Member Join Date: June 5, 2010 Location: Michigan Posts: 48	Just to correct the U.S. Secret Service carries the Sig P229 in .357 sig not in 40 S&W. However the US Coast Gaurd uses the P229 in .40. ICE uses the H&K in .40. The guy who said Air Marshalls carry in .357 sig is also correct they don't carry a .40. There are also other agentcies that carry a .40 like BATF, USMS, both list it as optional. I can't remember where FBI is in things now but they issue one of five guns and allow others. Last I checked they issue either a Glock 22, G23, G17, G19, and of course the 1911 for the HRT teams.

June 21, 2010, 07:38 AM	#53
zenner22 Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2006 Posts: 229	ICE carries Sig 229s in 40.

June 21, 2010, 01:27 PM	#55
scorpiusdeus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2007 Location: Ventura County, CA Posts: 300

June 22, 2010, 11:03 AM	#57
tipoc Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Location: Redwood City, Ca. Posts: 4,114	Let's keep this thread going!

June 23, 2010, 08:33 AM	#62
pythagorean Junior member Join Date: January 27, 2008 Posts: 970	I don't really appreciate the .40 SW I admit it. I had one in a Browning Hi Power. It was a great gun but the round is an "in between" in my mind to the 9mm and .45. Funny thing is the .41 Magnum was an "in between" but it packs a LOT more punch than the auto round. So why did Homeland Security buy those 40SW rounds? I can think of another question that questions the effectiveness of Homeland Security altogether and that makes me mum on this one.

June 23, 2010, 01:14 PM	#63
scorpiusdeus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2007 Location: Ventura County, CA Posts: 300	Size, Speed, and capacity, the .40 S&W offers the best of all three. It's bigger than a 9mm, faster than a .45, and comes in MANY platforms that have reasonable capacity, not much less than 9mm and much more than .45. I own 4 different brands of handgun .40 S&W that I can have a 9mm barrel and mags for, and .357 Sig barrels for. In these handguns I have three potential calibers in one weapon. What's not to love? I'm unaware of any study showing the the .40 S&W is any worse and dispatching bad guys than 9mm or .45. All we're really talking about here is preference ans prejudice. I don't dislike ANY caliber that may save my life some day.

June 25, 2010, 10:07 PM	#64
Erik Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 1999 Location: America Posts: 3,479	I know a variety of personnel spread across DHS components which carry pistols chambered in .357 Sig and .40 S&W. Of those with the 40s, none can recall being issued anything other than 155 and 180 grain varieties from various manufacturers. __________________ Meriam Webster's: Main Entry: ci·vil·ian Pronunciation: \sə-ˈvil-yən also -ˈvi-yən\, Function: noun, Date: 14th century, 1: a specialist in Roman or modern civil law, 2 a: one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force b: outsider 1, — civilian adjective Last edited by Erik; June 26, 2010 at 08:02 PM.