Brass Grouping- The ultimate handload!

AlbertaCanada · October 5, 2001, 07:20 PM

Lets face it... Most anybody can load accurate handloads, but can you get your ejected brass to group?
A buddy of mine says this is silly...And so do I, but hey, what the heck!
Myself, I prefer 5.3gr of Unique on IVI Brass, ejected from a Beretta '92 with a stock ejector. Average is 2 feet on a 10 round mag

Brian Gibbons · October 5, 2001, 07:32 PM

Well now that you brought it up. I have a Mini 14 Ranch Rifle that will eject it's brass about twenty feet. On a good day, with a no wind condition, I can get a brass gouping at that distance of a consistant 16 inches using factory loads. I don't know if I can improve this with reloads, but I would like to hear from others who may have tried to improve their brass grouping ...

WESHOOT2 · October 5, 2001, 08:22 PM

Tested indoors but still couldn't find the cases...........

AlbertaCanada · October 5, 2001, 10:03 PM

WESHOOT,
Try using a brass catcher set up strategically and at a known distance...Oh say 4 feet from the ejector port. Stick an NRA 50 yard zeroing target on it Carefully mount a paint brush over your ejection port and then slobber a quantity of paint on it. Presto! When you shoot the firearm, the ejected case gets covered in paint, strikes the target amd then you can use your ballistics/ distance X grains of powder +ummm 3.452, to figure out the average group @ 10 feet. Simple huh?

If you want to figure out your Knock down index, multiply the speed of a sparrow by the weight (in grains) of the case/ drag coefficient of the tumbling case. Pure Freakin' Magic!

Gewehr98 · October 5, 2001, 10:13 PM

each time I shoot my Czech CZ-52 at the outdoor range. Sometimes I think the brass duplicates the ballistics of the bullet, as far and fast as it flies.

Brian Gibbons · October 5, 2001, 10:25 PM

that says if the "ejector port velocity" of the expended case exceeds 500 fps that you must register your firearm as an NFA Class III Weapon? Maybe some-one could check with the BATF and get back to us on this one ...

Brian Gibbons · October 5, 2001, 10:42 PM

that says if the "ejector port velocity" of the expended case exceeds 500 fps that you must register your firearm as an NFA Class III Weapon? Maybe some-one could check with the BATF and get back to us on this one ...

WESHOOT2 · October 5, 2001, 10:58 PM

Lost cases INDOORS. INDOORS.

(Have a 'brass-catcher', but some loads miss LOL.)

AlbertaCanada · October 5, 2001, 11:01 PM

"ejector port velocity"

I think that the case overall length (fired) just might be the determining factor between Restricted and non-restricted.
Dee doesn't understand any of this thread, but that's alright... Some things just aren't worth explaining.I thought you'd qustion the geographical sub species of feathered friend. WAAAAAAA!!!!!!
I need to find a picture of the "Killer Rabbit" on the net, or a ready made target. I think our "Brass has a pupose!"

Archie · October 6, 2001, 06:36 AM

He was a Major in the USMC reserve and we shot together on the local team.

He had a High Standard .22lr target pistol that was very accurate. And the brass went East almost as fast as the bullets went North. Rangemasters would put him on the right hand end of the range.

He had a 45 Guvmint model that was all tuned up as a bullseye gun. With the 230 match ammo and his "heavy" recoil spring, it shoot very well. With his "light" recoil spring and wadcutter (185 grain) ammo, the cases would dance all over his face and head. He was used to it and ignored it, but other shooters on line couldn't help but watch..... it was amazing.

As both guns shot real well, he wouldn't allow any tinkering to correct the situations. He feared "something would change".

AlbertaCanada · October 6, 2001, 10:44 AM

aRCHIE

the cases would dance all over his face and head. He was used to it and ignored it, but other shooters on line couldn't help but watch..... it was amazing.

I bet you could check the grouping by the little welts in his face.

Freedom in theSkies · October 7, 2001, 08:07 PM

Maybe Sky Marshals should adopt this theory for minimum airframe damage if they find themselves in a hijack situation.

griz · October 9, 2001, 05:46 AM

Quote:

If you want to figure out your Knock down index, multiply the speed of a sparrow by the weight (in grains) of the case/drag coefficient of the tumbling case. Pure Freakin' Magic!

Is that a European or English sparrow? Or is it a swallow? Or was it not a reference to Monty Python at all?

Guy B. Meredith · October 9, 2001, 09:29 AM

I note that grouping of brass seems to be a function of the pistol itself. Differernt pistols group differently and in competition I look forward to either those that group for easy cleanup or those that are so erratic that I do not feel guilty in losing the brass.

Course, my moon clip fed revolvers always group consistently and I prefer shooting ICORE (International Confederation of Revolver Enthusiasts) events where the others are behaving the same.

AlbertaCanada · October 11, 2001, 12:02 AM

COLOR=blue]Is that a European or English sparrow? Or is it a swallow? Or was it not a reference to Monty Python at all?[/COLOR]

I'm impressed...
You may pass...But watch out for the killer rabbit!!

My buddy has a Mini-14 ranch, and man, does that thing throw brass! I think that the person on his right is just as likely to become a statistic as the target is.

J.T.King · October 11, 2001, 01:37 AM

Ahhh... whew! (wiping the tears form my eyes!)

Ahem.

Yeah, what he said!

JT

October 5, 2001, 07:20 PM	#1
AlbertaCanada Member Join Date: November 2, 2000 Posts: 73	Brass Grouping- The ultimate handload! Lets face it... Most anybody can load accurate handloads, but can you get your ejected brass to group? A buddy of mine says this is silly...And so do I, but hey, what the heck! Myself, I prefer 5.3gr of Unique on IVI Brass, ejected from a Beretta '92 with a stock ejector. Average is 2 feet on a 10 round mag

October 5, 2001, 07:32 PM	#2
Brian Gibbons Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2001 Posts: 388	Brass Grouping ?? Well now that you brought it up. I have a Mini 14 Ranch Rifle that will eject it's brass about twenty feet. On a good day, with a no wind condition, I can get a brass gouping at that distance of a consistant 16 inches using factory loads. I don't know if I can improve this with reloads, but I would like to hear from others who may have tried to improve their brass grouping ...

October 5, 2001, 08:22 PM	#3
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	400 CORBON Tested indoors but still couldn't find the cases........... __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

October 5, 2001, 10:13 PM	#5
Gewehr98 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2000 Location: Token Creek, WI Posts: 4,067	I ALWAYS lose a bunch of Starline 7.62x25 brass each time I shoot my Czech CZ-52 at the outdoor range. Sometimes I think the brass duplicates the ballistics of the bullet, as far and fast as it flies. __________________ "Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round... Neural Misfires

October 5, 2001, 10:25 PM	#6
Brian Gibbons Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2001 Posts: 388	Isn't there a law ... that says if the "ejector port velocity" of the expended case exceeds 500 fps that you must register your firearm as an NFA Class III Weapon? Maybe some-one could check with the BATF and get back to us on this one ...

October 5, 2001, 10:03 PM	#4
AlbertaCanada Member Join Date: November 2, 2000 Posts: 73	WESHOOT, Try using a brass catcher set up strategically and at a known distance...Oh say 4 feet from the ejector port. Stick an NRA 50 yard zeroing target on it Carefully mount a paint brush over your ejection port and then slobber a quantity of paint on it. Presto! When you shoot the firearm, the ejected case gets covered in paint, strikes the target amd then you can use your ballistics/ distance X grains of powder +ummm 3.452, to figure out the average group @ 10 feet. Simple huh? If you want to figure out your Knock down index, multiply the speed of a sparrow by the weight (in grains) of the case/ drag coefficient of the tumbling case. Pure Freakin' Magic!

October 5, 2001, 10:42 PM	#7
Brian Gibbons Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2001 Posts: 388	Isn't there a law ... that says if the "ejector port velocity" of the expended case exceeds 500 fps that you must register your firearm as an NFA Class III Weapon? Maybe some-one could check with the BATF and get back to us on this one ...

October 5, 2001, 10:58 PM	#8
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	REREAD POST Lost cases INDOORS. INDOORS. (Have a 'brass-catcher', but some loads miss LOL.) __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

October 5, 2001, 11:01 PM	#9
AlbertaCanada Member Join Date: November 2, 2000 Posts: 73	"ejector port velocity" I think that the case overall length (fired) just might be the determining factor between Restricted and non-restricted. Dee doesn't understand any of this thread, but that's alright... Some things just aren't worth explaining.I thought you'd qustion the geographical sub species of feathered friend. WAAAAAAA!!!!!! I need to find a picture of the "Killer Rabbit" on the net, or a ready made target. I think our "Brass has a pupose!"

October 6, 2001, 06:36 AM	#10
Archie Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 2000 Location: Hastings, Nebrasksa - the Hear Posts: 2,209	Brings to mind an old shooting partner.... He was a Major in the USMC reserve and we shot together on the local team. He had a High Standard .22lr target pistol that was very accurate. And the brass went East almost as fast as the bullets went North. Rangemasters would put him on the right hand end of the range. He had a 45 Guvmint model that was all tuned up as a bullseye gun. With the 230 match ammo and his "heavy" recoil spring, it shoot very well. With his "light" recoil spring and wadcutter (185 grain) ammo, the cases would dance all over his face and head. He was used to it and ignored it, but other shooters on line couldn't help but watch..... it was amazing. As both guns shot real well, he wouldn't allow any tinkering to correct the situations. He feared "something would change". __________________ There ain't no free lunch, except Jesus. Archie Check out updated journal at http://oldmanmontgomery.wordpress.com/

October 6, 2001, 10:44 AM	#11
AlbertaCanada Member Join Date: November 2, 2000 Posts: 73	aRCHIE the cases would dance all over his face and head. He was used to it and ignored it, but other shooters on line couldn't help but watch..... it was amazing. I bet you could check the grouping by the little welts in his face.

October 7, 2001, 08:07 PM	#12
Freedom in theSkies Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2001 Location: The "Nice Dictatorship" of Canada Posts: 250	Maybe Sky Marshals should adopt this theory for minimum airframe damage if they find themselves in a hijack situation. __________________ Live in peace... But defend it...Embrace it... But never take it for granted...

October 9, 2001, 09:29 AM	#14
Guy B. Meredith Senior Member Join Date: August 29, 1999 Location: Salem, Oregon Posts: 1,581	I note that grouping of brass seems to be a function of the pistol itself. Differernt pistols group differently and in competition I look forward to either those that group for easy cleanup or those that are so erratic that I do not feel guilty in losing the brass. Course, my moon clip fed revolvers always group consistently and I prefer shooting ICORE (International Confederation of Revolver Enthusiasts) events where the others are behaving the same.

October 11, 2001, 12:02 AM	#15
AlbertaCanada Member Join Date: November 2, 2000 Posts: 73	COLOR=blue]Is that a European or English sparrow? Or is it a swallow? Or was it not a reference to Monty Python at all?[/COLOR] I'm impressed... You may pass...But watch out for the killer rabbit!! My buddy has a Mini-14 ranch, and man, does that thing throw brass! I think that the person on his right is just as likely to become a statistic as the target is.

October 11, 2001, 01:37 AM	#16
J.T.King Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2000 Location: SoCal Posts: 345	HAHAHAH!!!! Ahhh... whew! (wiping the tears form my eyes!) Ahem. Yeah, what he said! JT