Glock 17 issue

2ndsojourn · January 16, 2013, 02:04 PM

I'm not a new shooter, but a new poster. I did a quick search for this subject but didn't see anything, so I hope I'm not resurrecting an old subject.

I recently bought a G17c and went to the range with my girlfriend with a few guns and different ammo. We fired off a box of old military 9mm ammo with no problem. Going thru a box of UMC (yellow box), about every 5th ejected case stovepiped. After about the 3rd time, instead of taking the mag out and clearing it and reloading, I just knocked the partly ejected case out of the ejection port and continued. Then I tried a box of cheap Brown Wolf...Russian I think. About every 3rd round did the same thing.

Please....don't say we're limpwristing. Maybe she was, but I wasn't.

I guess there's the possibility that cheap ammo won't work in this gun, but it works in all my others. Or does my G17 need to be 'broken in'?

Jim Watson · January 16, 2013, 02:28 PM

What "generation" is it?
A Gen 4 G17 is, in my opinion, oversprung. The .40 needed more recoil spring but they should not have changed the setup in 9mm.

blackamos · January 16, 2013, 02:33 PM

Most stove pipes are from limp wristing.

Strafer Gott · January 16, 2013, 02:34 PM

That ammo won't cycle in guns with factory spec'd springs. If you want full power ammo you won't find it at discount. It's pretty much a buck a round, or learn to reload. A gen 4 G17 will run perfect with reloads at starting load values.

Tactical Jackalope · January 16, 2013, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Most stove pipes are from limp wristing.

I second this...

My gen 4 have been factory flawless.

The was an issue with Glock using the .40S&W dual recoil spring in the 9mm's. Give Glock a call and check. I think it needs to be changed from an 04 spring?

Someone here will give you the exact numbers.

But again, check for limp wristing anyways.

Model700 · January 16, 2013, 03:04 PM

The updated spring number is 042.

Mrgunsngear · January 16, 2013, 03:17 PM

If it's a C model it's most likely Gen3 (there are Gen2s out there)...

If it's really stovepiping that often something's wrong with the gun, shooter, or the ammo. I have a few

Glocks and not a one of them malfuctions any more often than 1/1000 rounds (most don't even do that).

9mm Glocks are more limp wrist sensitive than other calibers but if you say you're not I'll take your word.

Did you clean and lubricate the gun prior to shooting?

2ndsojourn · January 16, 2013, 03:41 PM

Yeah, it's a gen3 17c. (At the time I bought mine the 17c wasn't available in gen4.)

No, I didn't clean it or anything. Just took it out of the box and shot it.

And, again, I wasn't limp wristing. I know how to shoot. The spring 'problem' seems like a logical answer. The shop where I bought it has a Glock armorer so maybe I'll take it in for some mods.

AndyWest · January 16, 2013, 04:01 PM

I'm currently boycotting UMC. Unfortunately I don't have my notes with me but I recall mention of them being loaded light, and I think 9mm was my issue too. Here's a grain of salt.

Fishbed77 · January 16, 2013, 04:36 PM

Quote:

That ammo won't cycle in guns with factory spec'd springs. If you want full power ammo you won't find it at discount. It's pretty much a buck a round, or learn to reload.

I gotta call a bit of BS on this. A service pistol should be able to cycle cheap bulk practice ammo (be it UMC or anything else). If you think you need to pay $1 a round to shoot for practice, you are being ripped off.

My Walther P99 has never failed to cycle anything I've ever fed it, including el cheapo UMC ammo, Winchester White Box, Federal American Eagle, PMC, or CCI Blazer. Likewise, it shoots high-dollar defensive +P ammo just as great.

For the OP, my guess is limp-wristing, failure to clean and properly lubricate the new pistol (even Glocks need cleaning/lubrication), or a pistol that needs to go back to Glock.

Skans · January 16, 2013, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Most stove pipes are from limp wristing.

I doubt it. I have a Glock 17 and I have intentionally limp-wristed it while shooting and it functions flawlessly, even with Wolf steel-cased 9mm. I suspect that he may just have some weak ammo, or something is not "factory" about the gun.

Quote:

My Walther P99 has never failed to cycle anything I've ever fed it, including el cheapo UMC ammo, Winchester White Box, Federal American Eagle, PMC, or CCI Blazer. Likewise, it shoots high-dollar defensive +P ammo just as great.

I've had problems with CCI Blazer (aluminum cased) being too weak to cycle the action one one of my guns as well.

g.willikers · January 16, 2013, 06:40 PM

Was the magazine loaded with the same number of cartridges every time?
If the difference from no stove pipes, to once every five rounds, to once every three rounds, was associated with loading the mag differently, the problem might be the mag spring.

blackamos · January 16, 2013, 07:13 PM

"I doubt it. I have a Glock 17 and I have intentionally limp-wristed it while shooting and it functions flawlessly, even with Wolf steel-cased 9mm. I suspect that he may just have some weak ammo, or something is not "factory" about the gun."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh9JhCyFFxA

BillM · January 16, 2013, 07:20 PM

Remington UMC 115 gr FMJ is a little puny. Out of a G17 it will not
make the minor power factor floor for USPSA competition. To get it
to run 100% in my G17's (gen 2 and gen 3) I drop to a 15 lb or even a
13 lb recoil spring on a stainless guiderod. Stock spring on a gen 3 is 17 lbs.

Tactical Jackalope · January 16, 2013, 08:13 PM

Not going to lie. That video blackamos posted made me a little sad.

SIG Sauer 1911 XO - Custom Springfield MilSpec 1911 - Colt Gold Cup Trophy Model 1911 - Colt 70 Series 1911 - SIG Sauer P220 - SIG Sauer P226 E2 - Browning High-Power blue & stainless - Glock 17 - Glock 19 - Glock 21SF - Glock 22 - S&W Model 19 - H&k USP 40 - Remington Magnum 870 - Rock River AR-15 “Americans can no longer depend upon legislation to defend them from all who intend to do them harm.”

AK103K · January 16, 2013, 10:01 PM

Sturmgewehre's video has been around for a long time now, and been discussed a number of times.

When it first came out, I tried to duplicate it, and was only able to get one of my 17's to do it, by holding the gun as he does, sideways, with my thumb and trigger finger. Even then, it still fired without issue better than 60% of the time.

I really dont know what that type grip really proves either, as why would you even try to shoot that way (other than to intentionally try to get the gun to bobble), even if you were injured? While I was shooting, I was also trying to hit a "people" target, and when shooting like the video, I was lucky to even hit the 2.5x3.5' paper the target was printed on. Shooting it in a more normal fashion, even with no grip, I was still getting "good" hits on the person on the target.

As long as the gun was held more or less normally, with my wrist behind the gun, I had no troubles at all with the gun stopping. I actually shot it with no "grip" at all, and the gun was just resting on my middle finger and the web of my hand, and the only thing keeping it from leaving my hand, was my finger in the trigger. It ran fine for 4 full mags, or 68 rounds.

Interestingly enough, my Commander had more issues because the grip safety wasnt being engaged with the same "weak" grip, and would not fire until I adjusted my grip and engaged the safety.

Limp wristing really has nothing to do with the wrist, its more about the hand and arm holding the gun, moving rearward with the gun during recoil. If you correct that issue, the problem stops.

I shoot Glocks all the time, and the only time Ive had the stove pipe issue, was due to the ammo. It was either under powered, or, as what is usually the case for me, the brass was towards the end of its service live, and the case rims were chewed up and the extractor doesnt always get a good grip. The same gun, the same day, with new factory ammo of a proper power level, and the gun runs fine.

Glock has always recommended ammo in the hotter range, and when they first came out, actually sent around a factory letter to their dealers addressing just that, as they were having issues with ammo on the lower end of the power range.

When the gun does run, is the extraction/ejection pretty consistent and to the same place (and not into your face)? There is also always the possibility that you have one of the guns that has the extractor/ejector problem that they have been bitching about over on Glock Talk for over a year now. Ejection is usually the issue, but it may be part of your problem.

Mrgunsngear · January 16, 2013, 11:19 PM

Quote:

The spring 'problem' seems like a logical answer. The shop where I bought it has a Glock armorer so maybe I'll take it in for some mods.

There's no spring problem with the Gen3 guns. Perhaps an out of spec extractor but not a spring problem.

2ndsojourn · January 17, 2013, 07:51 AM

"When the gun does run, is the extraction/ejection pretty consistent and to the same place (and not into your face)?"

@AK...

Now that you mention it, the brass seemed to be all over the place. I'm going to call the armorer at the shop I bought it and take it in this weekend.

Thanks all for your comments.

Skans · January 17, 2013, 08:43 AM

I watched the video. I have a Gen 2 Glock 17 (2-pin). And, while I have intentionally limp wristed it, I didn't hold it the way the guy in the video did - that is beyond limp-wristing. I don't recall experiencing even one stovepipe while firing it over the past 20 years. In fact, the only problem I had with it was when a squib round lodged a bullet just past the barrel throat The good thing was, it wouldn't chamber another round - if that bullet went a little farther down the pipe, that would have been the end of my Glock 17.

myshoulderissore · January 17, 2013, 01:35 PM

Quote:

No, I didn't clean it or anything. Just took it out of the box and shot it.

Clean any gun, whether new or new to you, at least when you get it, unless wanting to do a test of "as it comes" reliability. See if that helps, my guess is it will be near flawless after a proper cleaning.

Fishbed77 · January 17, 2013, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Clean any gun, whether new or new to you, at least when you get it, unless wanting to do a test of "as it comes" reliability. See if that helps, my guess is it will be near flawless after a proper cleaning.

+1

Almost all new guns come packed with preservative grease of some sort that must be cleaned out, as it is not designed to be a lubricant.

gothcopter · January 18, 2013, 04:05 PM

Newer vintage Gen3's have been having ejection problems as well as the Gen4's. Here's a post I made on an earlier thread. As an update to that thread, after my ejector change I have put over 2000 rounds through that gun with no malfunctions at all.

Just because an ejector change fixed my gun doesn't mean it will fix yours. But if cleaning and lubricating it doesn't make the problem go away completely, something's probably out of spec. Whether you want to DIY or send it back to Glock is your call.

January 16, 2013, 02:04 PM	#1
2ndsojourn Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2013 Location: South Jersey Posts: 1,416	Glock 17 issue I'm not a new shooter, but a new poster. I did a quick search for this subject but didn't see anything, so I hope I'm not resurrecting an old subject. I recently bought a G17c and went to the range with my girlfriend with a few guns and different ammo. We fired off a box of old military 9mm ammo with no problem. Going thru a box of UMC (yellow box), about every 5th ejected case stovepiped. After about the 3rd time, instead of taking the mag out and clearing it and reloading, I just knocked the partly ejected case out of the ejection port and continued. Then I tried a box of cheap Brown Wolf...Russian I think. About every 3rd round did the same thing. Please....don't say we're limpwristing. Maybe she was, but I wasn't. I guess there's the possibility that cheap ammo won't work in this gun, but it works in all my others. Or does my G17 need to be 'broken in'?

January 16, 2013, 02:33 PM	#3
blackamos Senior Member Join Date: August 19, 2000 Location: Michigan Posts: 580	Most stove pipes are from limp wristing. __________________ Know of that you speak, Amos

January 16, 2013, 03:17 PM	#7
Mrgunsngear Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2011 Location: Carolina Posts: 3,415	If it's a C model it's most likely Gen3 (there are Gen2s out there)... If it's really stovepiping that often something's wrong with the gun, shooter, or the ammo. I have a few Glocks and not a one of them malfuctions any more often than 1/1000 rounds (most don't even do that). 9mm Glocks are more limp wrist sensitive than other calibers but if you say you're not I'll take your word. Did you clean and lubricate the gun prior to shooting? __________________ Mrgunsngear Youtube Channel

January 16, 2013, 04:01 PM	#9
AndyWest Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2011 Posts: 627	I'm currently boycotting UMC. Unfortunately I don't have my notes with me but I recall mention of them being loaded light, and I think 9mm was my issue too. Here's a grain of salt. __________________ Shoot smart. Shoot S-Mart.

January 16, 2013, 06:40 PM	#12
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Was the magazine loaded with the same number of cartridges every time? If the difference from no stove pipes, to once every five rounds, to once every three rounds, was associated with loading the mag differently, the problem might be the mag spring. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

January 16, 2013, 02:28 PM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	What "generation" is it? A Gen 4 G17 is, in my opinion, oversprung. The .40 needed more recoil spring but they should not have changed the setup in 9mm.

January 16, 2013, 02:34 PM	#4
Strafer Gott Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2011 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,315	That ammo won't cycle in guns with factory spec'd springs. If you want full power ammo you won't find it at discount. It's pretty much a buck a round, or learn to reload. A gen 4 G17 will run perfect with reloads at starting load values.

January 16, 2013, 03:04 PM	#6
Model700 Member Join Date: April 4, 2006 Location: Arkansas Posts: 48	The updated spring number is 042.

January 16, 2013, 03:41 PM	#8
2ndsojourn Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2013 Location: South Jersey Posts: 1,416	Yeah, it's a gen3 17c. (At the time I bought mine the 17c wasn't available in gen4.) No, I didn't clean it or anything. Just took it out of the box and shot it. And, again, I wasn't limp wristing. I know how to shoot. The spring 'problem' seems like a logical answer. The shop where I bought it has a Glock armorer so maybe I'll take it in for some mods.

January 16, 2013, 07:13 PM	#13
blackamos Senior Member Join Date: August 19, 2000 Location: Michigan Posts: 580	"I doubt it. I have a Glock 17 and I have intentionally limp-wristed it while shooting and it functions flawlessly, even with Wolf steel-cased 9mm. I suspect that he may just have some weak ammo, or something is not "factory" about the gun." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh9JhCyFFxA __________________ Know of that you speak, Amos

January 16, 2013, 07:20 PM	#14
BillM Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2009 Location: Amity Oregon Posts: 791	Remington UMC 115 gr FMJ is a little puny. Out of a G17 it will not make the minor power factor floor for USPSA competition. To get it to run 100% in my G17's (gen 2 and gen 3) I drop to a 15 lb or even a 13 lb recoil spring on a stainless guiderod. Stock spring on a gen 3 is 17 lbs.

January 16, 2013, 08:13 PM	#15
Tactical Jackalope Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 6,429	Not going to lie. That video blackamos posted made me a little sad. SIG Sauer 1911 XO - Custom Springfield MilSpec 1911 - Colt Gold Cup Trophy Model 1911 - Colt 70 Series 1911 - SIG Sauer P220 - SIG Sauer P226 E2 - Browning High-Power blue & stainless - Glock 17 - Glock 19 - Glock 21SF - Glock 22 - S&W Model 19 - H&k USP 40 - Remington Magnum 870 - Rock River AR-15 “Americans can no longer depend upon legislation to defend them from all who intend to do them harm.”

January 16, 2013, 10:01 PM	#16
AK103K Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2001 Posts: 10,223	Sturmgewehre's video has been around for a long time now, and been discussed a number of times. When it first came out, I tried to duplicate it, and was only able to get one of my 17's to do it, by holding the gun as he does, sideways, with my thumb and trigger finger. Even then, it still fired without issue better than 60% of the time. I really dont know what that type grip really proves either, as why would you even try to shoot that way (other than to intentionally try to get the gun to bobble), even if you were injured? While I was shooting, I was also trying to hit a "people" target, and when shooting like the video, I was lucky to even hit the 2.5x3.5' paper the target was printed on. Shooting it in a more normal fashion, even with no grip, I was still getting "good" hits on the person on the target. As long as the gun was held more or less normally, with my wrist behind the gun, I had no troubles at all with the gun stopping. I actually shot it with no "grip" at all, and the gun was just resting on my middle finger and the web of my hand, and the only thing keeping it from leaving my hand, was my finger in the trigger. It ran fine for 4 full mags, or 68 rounds. Interestingly enough, my Commander had more issues because the grip safety wasnt being engaged with the same "weak" grip, and would not fire until I adjusted my grip and engaged the safety. Limp wristing really has nothing to do with the wrist, its more about the hand and arm holding the gun, moving rearward with the gun during recoil. If you correct that issue, the problem stops. I shoot Glocks all the time, and the only time Ive had the stove pipe issue, was due to the ammo. It was either under powered, or, as what is usually the case for me, the brass was towards the end of its service live, and the case rims were chewed up and the extractor doesnt always get a good grip. The same gun, the same day, with new factory ammo of a proper power level, and the gun runs fine. Glock has always recommended ammo in the hotter range, and when they first came out, actually sent around a factory letter to their dealers addressing just that, as they were having issues with ammo on the lower end of the power range. When the gun does run, is the extraction/ejection pretty consistent and to the same place (and not into your face)? There is also always the possibility that you have one of the guns that has the extractor/ejector problem that they have been bitching about over on Glock Talk for over a year now. Ejection is usually the issue, but it may be part of your problem.

January 17, 2013, 07:51 AM	#18
2ndsojourn Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2013 Location: South Jersey Posts: 1,416	"When the gun does run, is the extraction/ejection pretty consistent and to the same place (and not into your face)?" @AK... Now that you mention it, the brass seemed to be all over the place. I'm going to call the armorer at the shop I bought it and take it in this weekend. Thanks all for your comments.

January 17, 2013, 08:43 AM	#19
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	I watched the video. I have a Gen 2 Glock 17 (2-pin). And, while I have intentionally limp wristed it, I didn't hold it the way the guy in the video did - that is beyond limp-wristing. I don't recall experiencing even one stovepipe while firing it over the past 20 years. In fact, the only problem I had with it was when a squib round lodged a bullet just past the barrel throat The good thing was, it wouldn't chamber another round - if that bullet went a little farther down the pipe, that would have been the end of my Glock 17.

January 18, 2013, 04:05 PM	#22
gothcopter Member Join Date: June 15, 2012 Location: Georgia Posts: 45	Newer vintage Gen3's have been having ejection problems as well as the Gen4's. Here's a post I made on an earlier thread. As an update to that thread, after my ejector change I have put over 2000 rounds through that gun with no malfunctions at all. Just because an ejector change fixed my gun doesn't mean it will fix yours. But if cleaning and lubricating it doesn't make the problem go away completely, something's probably out of spec. Whether you want to DIY or send it back to Glock is your call.

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