Printing vs Brandishing

CoffeedrinkerinNC · January 21, 2015, 08:24 AM

Is there a real difference in the eyes of the law? I carry a full size gun, G20, and I know at times the gun is printing. It's not often, but it does happen. I'm more worried about the over zealous anti-gun nut calling the law, and then getting the over zealous LEO.

I know how to dress properly to keep my gun covered 99% of the time, I have been carrying a full size gun from about 1996. But as we all know, it's the 1% that can get you in trouble.

jimbob86 · January 21, 2015, 08:49 AM

Quote:

I'm more worried about the over zealous anti-gun nut calling the law, and then getting the over zealous LEO.

If your state is Open Carry legal, then I would not worry about either one.

If not- better to get a more concealable gun, IMHO.

Might be a good idea, anyhow. You should not count on every criminally minded person to be an unobservant idiot ...... remember these people do this stuff for a living, sometimes.

aarondhgraham · January 21, 2015, 09:58 AM

It all depends on the District Attorney.

We had a DA here in Oklahoma who was very anti-2A,,,
He instructed the county sheriff office to cite any printing as brandishing.

Interestingly enough,,,
A judge shot down many of those citations.

He informed the DA's office that simply calling it brandishing doesn't make it so.

His take was that printing was a passive thing,,,
For it to be called brandishing it had to be an active thing.

Two people I know who received citations,,,
Had them thrown out when they challenged them in court.

Then the next DA was 2A friendly and he did away with that policy.

Then we got open carry so the point is now moot.

Law enforcement often makes their own definitions,,,
Based on the "because we can" principle.

Aarond

.

BarryLee · January 21, 2015, 10:10 AM

Not an expert, but I was under the impression that North Caroline was an open carry State. If so could this still be an issue in some way? In other words is open carry legal, but if you carry concealed it has to be totally concealed?

FITASC · January 21, 2015, 10:42 AM

In FL brandishing involves using your gun in a threatening manner, quite different that simply printing or inadvertently exposing it.

**Aguila Blanca** · January 21, 2015, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoffeedrinkerinNC

Is there a real difference in the eyes of the law?

Whose law? We have fifty states plus the District of Columbia, and each has its own laws.

The gun laws of many states have no definition of "brandishing," and I very much doubt that any state has a legal definition for printing. To me, "brandishing" means waving a firearm around in an open, obvious, and threatening manner. However, I am aware that people have been arrested for "brandishing" for simply brushing back a cover garment to reveal a concealed firearm. (But I don't know if the charges resulted in a conviction.)

Paul B. · January 21, 2015, 08:13 PM

Not sure how "printing" would be handled here in Arizona. Considering some of the LEO are definitely anti even though we are a "Constitutional" state and I know some of the assistant county Attorneys are rabidly anti I feel discretion is the better part of valor. I have a CCW permit and choose an S&W M60 that I carry in an IWB holster. It's small enough that I can wear it semi-openly most of the time, usually in my vehicle and when I go to a store or out to eat. it slips conveniently into my right front pocket. That way I don't freak some bliss-ninny out because. "He's got a GUN!" I do believe Arizona does have a specific brandishing law and IIRC, just moving the covering garment back to expose the weapon qualifies as brandishing.

Paul B.

**Tom Servo** · January 21, 2015, 09:06 PM

Let's consider the definition of the word "brandishing:"

Quote:

to wave or flourish (something, especially a weapon) as a threat or in anger or excitement.

While different states have different laws, I can't see a situation in which a holstered gun, not in the hand, could possibly meet that definition. Inadvertent exposure can be a problem in localities that forbid open carry, but it still doesn't meet the definition.

steve4102 · January 22, 2015, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Let's consider the definition of the word "brandishing:"

Quote:
to wave or flourish (something, especially a weapon) as a threat or in anger or excitement.
While different states have different laws, I can't see a situation in which a holstered gun, not in the hand, could possibly meet that definition. Inadvertent exposure can be a problem in localities that forbid open carry, but it still doesn't meet the definition.

What about, opening your coat or cover garment, to show your "weapon" to someone, letting them know you are armed?

btmj · January 22, 2015, 09:52 AM

How "printing" is handled is very much state by state, or even county by county dependent.

My sister's CCW class was taught by the chief of police of a mid-size municipality here in St Louis county (this was 3-4 years ago). According to her, he told the class the "concealed carry does not mean undetectable carry". If the gun is concealed, you are within the law, even if an observer is able to guess you might by armed by the way your clothing bulges or by the way the outline of the gun become visible when you bend over... those were his words paraphrased.

A different state, different county... it could be very different interpretation.

Jim

CowTowner · January 22, 2015, 10:55 AM

Quote:

What about, opening your coat or cover garment, to show your "weapon" to someone, letting them know you are armed?

I'd call that a flourish.

Quote:

noun: flourish; plural noun: flourishes
a bold or extravagant gesture or action, made especially to attract the attention of others.

**Frank Ettin** · January 22, 2015, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowTowner

Quote:

What about, opening your coat or cover garment, to show your "weapon" to someone, letting them know you are armed?

I'd call that a flourish...

If there was evidence that your purpose in showing your gun was to threaten or intimidate or secure compliance , a prosecutor, judge and/or jury might call it "brandishing" or "assault."

CowTowner · January 22, 2015, 12:45 PM

Quote:

a prosecutor, judge and/or jury might call it "brandishing" or "assault."

My point exactly, Frank. Flourish being used in the definition of brandishing as provided by Tom Servo in Post #8.

Don P · January 23, 2015, 12:50 PM

Quote:

What about, opening your coat or cover garment, to show your "weapon" to someone, letting them know you are armed?

I'd call that being foolish/childish/dumb idea and asking for trouble.
Try that in a traffic stop when the LEO walks up to your car door

January 21, 2015, 08:24 AM	#1
CoffeedrinkerinNC Junior Member Join Date: January 14, 2015 Location: Traid NC Posts: 1	Printing vs Brandishing Is there a real difference in the eyes of the law? I carry a full size gun, G20, and I know at times the gun is printing. It's not often, but it does happen. I'm more worried about the over zealous anti-gun nut calling the law, and then getting the over zealous LEO. I know how to dress properly to keep my gun covered 99% of the time, I have been carrying a full size gun from about 1996. But as we all know, it's the 1% that can get you in trouble.

January 21, 2015, 09:58 AM	#3
aarondhgraham Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma Posts: 8,638	It all depends on the DA,,, It all depends on the District Attorney. We had a DA here in Oklahoma who was very anti-2A,,, He instructed the county sheriff office to cite any printing as brandishing. Interestingly enough,,, A judge shot down many of those citations. He informed the DA's office that simply calling it brandishing doesn't make it so. His take was that printing was a passive thing,,, For it to be called brandishing it had to be an active thing. Two people I know who received citations,,, Had them thrown out when they challenged them in court. Then the next DA was 2A friendly and he did away with that policy. Then we got open carry so the point is now moot. Law enforcement often makes their own definitions,,, Based on the "because we can" principle. Aarond . __________________ Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat. Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once. Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it? Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)

January 21, 2015, 10:10 AM	#4
BarryLee Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2010 Location: The ATL (OTP) Posts: 3,946	Not an expert, but I was under the impression that North Caroline was an open carry State. If so could this still be an issue in some way? In other words is open carry legal, but if you carry concealed it has to be totally concealed? __________________ A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

January 21, 2015, 08:13 PM	#7
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,801	Not sure how "printing" would be handled here in Arizona. Considering some of the LEO are definitely anti even though we are a "Constitutional" state and I know some of the assistant county Attorneys are rabidly anti I feel discretion is the better part of valor. I have a CCW permit and choose an S&W M60 that I carry in an IWB holster. It's small enough that I can wear it semi-openly most of the time, usually in my vehicle and when I go to a store or out to eat. it slips conveniently into my right front pocket. That way I don't freak some bliss-ninny out because. "He's got a GUN!" I do believe Arizona does have a specific brandishing law and IIRC, just moving the covering garment back to expose the weapon qualifies as brandishing. Paul B. __________________ COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

January 21, 2015, 10:42 AM	#5
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,441	In FL brandishing involves using your gun in a threatening manner, quite different that simply printing or inadvertently exposing it.

January 22, 2015, 09:52 AM	#10
btmj Senior Member Join Date: November 1, 2011 Location: Near St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 864	How "printing" is handled is very much state by state, or even county by county dependent. My sister's CCW class was taught by the chief of police of a mid-size municipality here in St Louis county (this was 3-4 years ago). According to her, he told the class the "concealed carry does not mean undetectable carry". If the gun is concealed, you are within the law, even if an observer is able to guess you might by armed by the way your clothing bulges or by the way the outline of the gun become visible when you bend over... those were his words paraphrased. A different state, different county... it could be very different interpretation. Jim