Enfield twist

Coinneach · February 14, 2000, 01:57 PM

OK, seriously geeky question here: anyone have the twist rate for an original Enfield No 4 Mk I? If not, I suppose I can do the cleaning rod and magic marker thing.

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"If your determination is fixed, I do not counsel you to despair. Few things are impossible to diligence and skill. Great works are performed not by strength, but perseverance."
-- Samuel Johnson

James K · February 14, 2000, 03:14 PM

1:10

Jim

Coinneach · February 14, 2000, 03:41 PM

Thanks, Jim... laconic as ever.

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"If your determination is fixed, I do not counsel you to despair. Few things are impossible to diligence and skill. Great works are performed not by strength, but perseverance."
-- Samuel Johnson

Harley Nolden · February 14, 2000, 05:55 PM

COINNEACH/JIM
It should be pointed out that the twist is 1-10 Left hand concentric. Just a little trivia.

Rifle No. 4, MARK 1:
Adopted in November 1939. This rifle was the main British service rifle in WWII. Simplified for manufacture, the No. 4 has the heavy barrel, smaller bolt head, rear sight mounted on the receiver bridge, lightened nose cap, projecting barrel with lugs for spike type bayonet and front sight mounted on heavy band with protecting ears, similar to the Mark IV. The receiver is stronger and heavier that of the No 1's. The No 4 Mark 1 has been made with four different patterns of rear sights varying from finely machined adjustable leaf to "L" types and six patterns of bayonets are usable on the weapon. This rifle was made by B.S.A., Maltby, and Fazakerly. B.S.A. production of this rifle wand the No. 4 Mark 1 (T) was over 1,000,000 from 1940 to 1945. The No 4 Mark 1 was also made for sometime at the Stevens Arms branch of Savage Arms Corp. at Chicopee Falls, Mass., and Long Branch before production of the No 4 Mark 1*

HJN

James K · February 14, 2000, 09:50 PM

Hi, guys,

Just to round out the picture: Early No. 4 Mk 1 rifles had 5 grooves, LH twist. All following were LH except for a few 6 groove RH twist made in Canada post WWII. US and Canadian wartime production No. 4 Mk 1* had 2, 5, and 6 groove barrels.

All, though, had concentric Enfield rifling.

FYI, the name "Lee-Enfield" denotes the inventor and the type of rifling. The Lee-Metford was the Lee design using Metford rifling, and the Martini-Henry was a Martini design using Henry rifling.

Jim

Coinneach · February 14, 2000, 10:09 PM

OK, dammit, now that my head is filled with even *more* useless information...

I just *had* to double-check. Left-5. Now can either of you tell me what the groove depth should be?

------------------
"If your determination is fixed, I do not counsel you to despair. Few things are impossible to diligence and skill. Great works are performed not by strength, but perseverance."
-- Samuel Johnson

**Bud Helms** · February 15, 2000, 06:22 AM

Heck, I have a better question than that!

Harley, what do you mean by "concentric" in reference to the rifling?

Can rifling be eccentric? You must mean something other than bore alignment ... ?

Harley Nolden · February 15, 2000, 09:23 AM

To All:
I have obviously infringed upon your discussion and I would like to apologize for that. As the SMLE has been brought up in this forum and others I thought the information could be usefull to someone.

Again let me apologize, it won't happen in your discussions again.

HJN

Coinneach · February 15, 2000, 11:46 AM

Jeez, Harley... lighten up a little, wouldja?

------------------
"If your determination is fixed, I do not counsel you to despair. Few things are impossible to diligence and skill. Great works are performed not by strength, but perseverance."
-- Samuel Johnson

Dr.Rob · February 15, 2000, 01:29 PM

Coinneach,

You should know by now that a rifle in production for that long would NOT have an easy answer.

Dr.Rob

James K · February 15, 2000, 09:11 PM

Sorry, Harley, it is your forum; I won't get in again.

Jim

Harley Nolden · February 16, 2000, 12:01 AM

Jim:
Your information is of superb quality and very informative. I see no reason for you not to contribute. Your knowledge and expertise is far above many of us, and for me or anyone else to say it is not, just doesn't know. Stick around. I've learned a lot from your imput as many others have.

HJN

James K · February 16, 2000, 04:30 PM

Thanks for the kind words. I will try to help but not be too obtrusive.

Jim

Big Bunny · February 21, 2000, 01:00 AM

Could I (carefully) add that the 2 groove Enfield barrels are in no way inferior to the others. In fact the reverse...NRA full-bore shooters preferred them (in Oz anyway) and also found they fouled less and were easier to clean.
[I believe the Bren(Brno-Enfield) 303 LMG also had this feature at one time, but the time(1972) I came to use them, they were re-barrelled in 308NATO and not so nice to shoot(compared with M60), also the magazine was horribly straight !]

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***Big Bunny***

February 14, 2000, 01:57 PM	#1
Coinneach Staff Alumnus Join Date: February 23, 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,272	OK, seriously geeky question here: anyone have the twist rate for an original Enfield No 4 Mk I? If not, I suppose I can do the cleaning rod and magic marker thing. ------------------ "If your determination is fixed, I do not counsel you to despair. Few things are impossible to diligence and skill. Great works are performed not by strength, but perseverance." -- Samuel Johnson

February 14, 2000, 03:14 PM	#2
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	1:10 Jim

February 14, 2000, 03:41 PM	#3
Coinneach Staff Alumnus Join Date: February 23, 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,272	Thanks, Jim... laconic as ever. ------------------ "If your determination is fixed, I do not counsel you to despair. Few things are impossible to diligence and skill. Great works are performed not by strength, but perseverance." -- Samuel Johnson

February 14, 2000, 05:55 PM	#4
Harley Nolden Staff In Memoriam Join Date: January 8, 1999 Location: Brunswick,GA USA Posts: 1,884	COINNEACH/JIM It should be pointed out that the twist is 1-10 Left hand concentric. Just a little trivia. Rifle No. 4, MARK 1: Adopted in November 1939. This rifle was the main British service rifle in WWII. Simplified for manufacture, the No. 4 has the heavy barrel, smaller bolt head, rear sight mounted on the receiver bridge, lightened nose cap, projecting barrel with lugs for spike type bayonet and front sight mounted on heavy band with protecting ears, similar to the Mark IV. The receiver is stronger and heavier that of the No 1's. The No 4 Mark 1 has been made with four different patterns of rear sights varying from finely machined adjustable leaf to "L" types and six patterns of bayonets are usable on the weapon. This rifle was made by B.S.A., Maltby, and Fazakerly. B.S.A. production of this rifle wand the No. 4 Mark 1 (T) was over 1,000,000 from 1940 to 1945. The No 4 Mark 1 was also made for sometime at the Stevens Arms branch of Savage Arms Corp. at Chicopee Falls, Mass., and Long Branch before production of the No 4 Mark 1* HJN

February 14, 2000, 09:50 PM	#5
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Hi, guys, Just to round out the picture: Early No. 4 Mk 1 rifles had 5 grooves, LH twist. All following were LH except for a few 6 groove RH twist made in Canada post WWII. US and Canadian wartime production No. 4 Mk 1* had 2, 5, and 6 groove barrels. All, though, had concentric Enfield rifling. FYI, the name "Lee-Enfield" denotes the inventor and the type of rifling. The Lee-Metford was the Lee design using Metford rifling, and the Martini-Henry was a Martini design using Henry rifling. Jim

February 14, 2000, 10:09 PM	#6
Coinneach Staff Alumnus Join Date: February 23, 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,272	OK, dammit, now that my head is filled with even more useless information... I just had to double-check. Left-5. Now can either of you tell me what the groove depth should be? ------------------ "If your determination is fixed, I do not counsel you to despair. Few things are impossible to diligence and skill. Great works are performed not by strength, but perseverance." -- Samuel Johnson

February 15, 2000, 06:22 AM	#7
Bud Helms Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 1999 Location: Middle Georgia, USA Posts: 13,198	Heck, I have a better question than that! Harley, what do you mean by "concentric" in reference to the rifling? Can rifling be eccentric? You must mean something other than bore alignment ... ?

February 15, 2000, 09:23 AM	#8
Harley Nolden Staff In Memoriam Join Date: January 8, 1999 Location: Brunswick,GA USA Posts: 1,884	To All: I have obviously infringed upon your discussion and I would like to apologize for that. As the SMLE has been brought up in this forum and others I thought the information could be usefull to someone. Again let me apologize, it won't happen in your discussions again. HJN

February 15, 2000, 11:46 AM	#9
Coinneach Staff Alumnus Join Date: February 23, 1999 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 4,272	Jeez, Harley... lighten up a little, wouldja? ------------------ "If your determination is fixed, I do not counsel you to despair. Few things are impossible to diligence and skill. Great works are performed not by strength, but perseverance." -- Samuel Johnson

February 15, 2000, 01:29 PM	#10
Dr.Rob Staff Alumnus Join Date: July 28, 1999 Location: Denver Posts: 2,454	Coinneach, You should know by now that a rifle in production for that long would NOT have an easy answer. Dr.Rob

February 15, 2000, 09:11 PM	#11
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Sorry, Harley, it is your forum; I won't get in again. Jim

February 16, 2000, 12:01 AM	#12
Harley Nolden Staff In Memoriam Join Date: January 8, 1999 Location: Brunswick,GA USA Posts: 1,884	Jim: Your information is of superb quality and very informative. I see no reason for you not to contribute. Your knowledge and expertise is far above many of us, and for me or anyone else to say it is not, just doesn't know. Stick around. I've learned a lot from your imput as many others have. HJN

February 16, 2000, 04:30 PM	#13
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Thanks for the kind words. I will try to help but not be too obtrusive. Jim

February 21, 2000, 01:00 AM	#14
Big Bunny Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 1999 Location: New South Wales - Australia Posts: 605	Could I (carefully) add that the 2 groove Enfield barrels are in no way inferior to the others. In fact the reverse...NRA full-bore shooters preferred them (in Oz anyway) and also found they fouled less and were easier to clean. [I believe the Bren(Brno-Enfield) 303 LMG also had this feature at one time, but the time(1972) I came to use them, they were re-barrelled in 308NATO and not so nice to shoot(compared with M60), also the magazine was horribly straight !] ------------------ *Big Bunny*