.45acp loads spit back ! Help

AL@PA · March 24, 2000, 06:07 PM

I just can't figure this, brass is at .890
bullets are seated at the proper OAL powder
loads are moderate.....but it spits powder
back at my face. Tried blue Dot,HS6,Bullseye
What am I doing wrong here. This is a Para-Ord P-12 Stainless, and no, it does not
do this with any factory ammo, it has to be
something I'm doing wrong. I am using a Dillon 650 with Lyman carbide dies. Any ideas
out there ?

char923 · March 24, 2000, 06:58 PM

Is it burn powder or unburn powder that is spits back. You may need alittle more crimp if it is unburn powder. To help complete the burning.

AL@PA · March 24, 2000, 08:18 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by char923:
Is it burn powder or unburn powder that is spits back. You may need alittle more crimp if it is unburn powder. To help complete the burning.[/quote]

OH OH....I do not apply a crimp, I would
not know if the powder is burnt or not, I
know my face does not like it. My die set
instruction sheet states not to apply a crimp
however, I've seen somewhere a post about using a "taper" crimp die. Who makes one of
these type ? Would this apply to a 9mm as well ? I don't seem to have a problem with
them though.

Banzai · March 24, 2000, 08:34 PM

A firm taper crimp, assuming all other elements of your loads are ok, should solve your problem. A taper crimp usually fixes problems like this, if and only if everything else is on par with your load manual.
Here's a simple test, turn a loaded cartridge upside down, push on the bullet on your work bench and see if you can push it deeper into the case. If you can, you've got a neck tension problem. Neck tension is what holds the bullet in the case, and it's this friction fit that you're currently relying on to establish a "Pressure Floor". This is the pressure point where the bullet begins to slide from the case and enter the forcing cone of the barrel. To keep this uniform, and high enough to maintain pressure to keep all the powder burning, the tension must be proper. Sounds like yours is too low, which can lead to dangerous pressure spikes in the extreme cases. In slight cases, you get what you've got, sandblasted by burned/unburned powder.
Sometimes, you have to adjust your sizing dies deeper to more fully size the round, and pay particular attention to the upper area, to make sure that it's sizing to the proper diameter.
Next, make sure that you're not over flaring the case mouth when bullet seating. This will aid in weakening the brass over the long run, and will wear out the neck area FAST. Flare only enough to get the bullet heel to stay in the case as you raise the ram.
Next, a firm taper crimp will help "Post Size" the round that you just loaded. Not only will this help in cartridge feeding, but will even out any small irregularities in each round in respect to case diameter. You'll notice a definate difference, especially in your 9mm rounds.
I recommend the dies fom Lee for your post loading taper crimp. Doing this in a seperate operation from bullet seating goes a long way to making a higher quality round. Use about 2/3 to 1 full turn for best results, copper jacket or lead bullets.
I reload about 1000 9mm and 40 each week, without any problems.
I've tried other brands of crimp dies, but I always come back to Lee. Carbide, great waranty, and only $15.

Tom

------------------
A "Miss" is the ultimate overpenetration!
You can never be too rich, too skinny, or too well armed!

char923 · March 24, 2000, 10:46 PM

Most die set have a seater/crimper die in them, seats and crimp at the same time. I use Dillon dies so I can seat in one step and crimp in other step on my 550B press. 9mm, 40S&W, 45ACP, just to name some, all use taper crimp of some what

**Bud Helms** · March 25, 2000, 07:55 AM

AL@PA,

Char293 is on the money. I'll bet it's unburned powder, since you aren't using a crimp. A taper crimp is the only way to go and Banzai's right about Lee taper crimp dies.

I used Blue Dot in .45 ACP because I was looking for the slowest powder I could find for the purpose of avoiding double charges. I was also loading light. It works, but it burns a little dirty, as you may have found out, and I don't think it all burns, frankly. I have gone to Herco. But there are still cleaner burning powders.

rinoray · March 25, 2000, 09:15 AM

Lee Factory Taper Crimp Die. I think there about $13.00 at MidwayUsa. http://www.midwayusa.com/products.html

I had similar problem in 40SW, factory crimp die solved it. I have a 45ACP on order.
Highly recommended!

Hope it helps!

AL@PA · March 26, 2000, 08:01 PM

Thanks for the input guys, just got my hands on a Lee factory crimp die. Seems simple. I'll let you know how I make out.

March 24, 2000, 06:07 PM	#1
AL@PA Member Join Date: March 22, 2000 Posts: 24	I just can't figure this, brass is at .890 bullets are seated at the proper OAL powder loads are moderate.....but it spits powder back at my face. Tried blue Dot,HS6,Bullseye What am I doing wrong here. This is a Para-Ord P-12 Stainless, and no, it does not do this with any factory ammo, it has to be something I'm doing wrong. I am using a Dillon 650 with Lyman carbide dies. Any ideas out there ?

March 24, 2000, 06:58 PM	#2
char923 Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2000 Location: Anchorage AK Posts: 237	Is it burn powder or unburn powder that is spits back. You may need alittle more crimp if it is unburn powder. To help complete the burning.

March 24, 2000, 08:18 PM	#3
AL@PA Member Join Date: March 22, 2000 Posts: 24	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by char923: Is it burn powder or unburn powder that is spits back. You may need alittle more crimp if it is unburn powder. To help complete the burning.[/quote] OH OH....I do not apply a crimp, I would not know if the powder is burnt or not, I know my face does not like it. My die set instruction sheet states not to apply a crimp however, I've seen somewhere a post about using a "taper" crimp die. Who makes one of these type ? Would this apply to a 9mm as well ? I don't seem to have a problem with them though.

March 24, 2000, 08:34 PM	#4
Banzai Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2000 Posts: 275	A firm taper crimp, assuming all other elements of your loads are ok, should solve your problem. A taper crimp usually fixes problems like this, if and only if everything else is on par with your load manual. Here's a simple test, turn a loaded cartridge upside down, push on the bullet on your work bench and see if you can push it deeper into the case. If you can, you've got a neck tension problem. Neck tension is what holds the bullet in the case, and it's this friction fit that you're currently relying on to establish a "Pressure Floor". This is the pressure point where the bullet begins to slide from the case and enter the forcing cone of the barrel. To keep this uniform, and high enough to maintain pressure to keep all the powder burning, the tension must be proper. Sounds like yours is too low, which can lead to dangerous pressure spikes in the extreme cases. In slight cases, you get what you've got, sandblasted by burned/unburned powder. Sometimes, you have to adjust your sizing dies deeper to more fully size the round, and pay particular attention to the upper area, to make sure that it's sizing to the proper diameter. Next, make sure that you're not over flaring the case mouth when bullet seating. This will aid in weakening the brass over the long run, and will wear out the neck area FAST. Flare only enough to get the bullet heel to stay in the case as you raise the ram. Next, a firm taper crimp will help "Post Size" the round that you just loaded. Not only will this help in cartridge feeding, but will even out any small irregularities in each round in respect to case diameter. You'll notice a definate difference, especially in your 9mm rounds. I recommend the dies fom Lee for your post loading taper crimp. Doing this in a seperate operation from bullet seating goes a long way to making a higher quality round. Use about 2/3 to 1 full turn for best results, copper jacket or lead bullets. I reload about 1000 9mm and 40 each week, without any problems. I've tried other brands of crimp dies, but I always come back to Lee. Carbide, great waranty, and only $15. Tom ------------------ A "Miss" is the ultimate overpenetration! You can never be too rich, too skinny, or too well armed!

March 24, 2000, 10:46 PM	#5
char923 Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2000 Location: Anchorage AK Posts: 237	Most die set have a seater/crimper die in them, seats and crimp at the same time. I use Dillon dies so I can seat in one step and crimp in other step on my 550B press. 9mm, 40S&W, 45ACP, just to name some, all use taper crimp of some what

March 25, 2000, 07:55 AM	#6
Bud Helms Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 1999 Location: Middle Georgia, USA Posts: 13,198	AL@PA, Char293 is on the money. I'll bet it's unburned powder, since you aren't using a crimp. A taper crimp is the only way to go and Banzai's right about Lee taper crimp dies. I used Blue Dot in .45 ACP because I was looking for the slowest powder I could find for the purpose of avoiding double charges. I was also loading light. It works, but it burns a little dirty, as you may have found out, and I don't think it all burns, frankly. I have gone to Herco. But there are still cleaner burning powders.

March 25, 2000, 09:15 AM	#7
rinoray Member Join Date: March 11, 2000 Posts: 71	Lee Factory Taper Crimp Die. I think there about $13.00 at MidwayUsa. http://www.midwayusa.com/products.html I had similar problem in 40SW, factory crimp die solved it. I have a 45ACP on order. Highly recommended! Hope it helps!

March 26, 2000, 08:01 PM	#8
AL@PA Member Join Date: March 22, 2000 Posts: 24	Thanks for the input guys, just got my hands on a Lee factory crimp die. Seems simple. I'll let you know how I make out.