laser cast in my 30-30

nick mcpheron · June 11, 2011, 07:32 PM

I was looking through my reloading supplies and found about 1000 Laser Cast 170gr FP bullits sized at .310. What loads do you guys use with these things? How hard can I push them before substantial leading occurs? Oh, my rifle is a model 94 made in 1972.

Missionary · June 11, 2011, 08:19 PM

Greetings First step is to be sure those lazers are of a diameter large enough to seal the throat area. In my lever rifles I routinely push 50-50 bullets to 1600 fps. Super hard bullets are no magic ingredient for accuracy or velocity. But a proper fitted bullet will sure get you started right. Bullets are pistons and especially with cast bullets, if they do not seal the rapidly expanding gasses to the rear then the shooter can exspect a leason in barrel cleaning.

res45 · June 11, 2011, 08:37 PM

The laser cast bullets are pretty hard alloy bullets,but I assume there not gas check bullet but the plain base version. I cast my own 170 gr. FN bullets for my 30-30 but the fastest I've pushed them without the gas check applied is around 1300 fps. using 8.0 grs. of Red Dot in my Sav. pump 30-30 and there very accurate and make great plinking and small game loads. Otherwise I slap a gas check on and shoot them close to factory J bullet velocity for hunting ammo,those bullets are cast form a much softer alloy for expansion purposes.

Leading can be caused by a combination of thing in most cases it's improper bullet to bore fit,don't think you will have that problem with the .310 dia. bullets,the next thing is your alloy isn't hard enough to withstand the pressure the load generates and you get gas cutting around the bullets base and the lube burns off which also causes leading. You can email or call Oregon Trail and they will send you load data for there cast rifle bullets from the reloading manual that no longer published.

Lyman Cast Bullet manual data,the two highlighted are what I have used with my 170 gr. bullets and two light coats of Lee Alox with no gas check and had no issues with leading.

170 gr. cast bullets

Red Dot 6.5 grs. 1159 fps. 8.5 grs. 1348 fps.

Unique 7.0 grs. 1240 fps. 10.6 grs. 1555 fps.

SR-4756 7.0 grs. 1102 fps. 10.5 grs. 1423 fps.

RX7 20.0 grs. 1632 fps. 28.6 grs. 2165 fps.

nick mcpheron · June 11, 2011, 10:05 PM

Your assumtions are right, they are plain base bullets. How do you keep those small charges of powder next to the primer? Are there any issues I need to watch? Thanks for the info. I will email Orgeon Trail.

res45 · June 12, 2011, 07:39 AM

With fast to medium burn rates of the "FAST" burning pistol and shotgun powders you don't need a filler as long as you stick to the prescribed load data.

Powders like Bullseye,Alliant 2400,Unique,Red Dot,SR-4756 to name a few are easily ignited and are not case capacity or position sensitive,when used with the prescribed data. It when you use powders in the Medium to slow burn rates with reduced loads for cast bullets that a filler is needed for reliable ignition and ballistic consistency. Commercial ammo mfg. selects a powder, which will perform within established velocity and pressure standards, while filling most of the cartridge case,so they don't need fillers.

I personally don't use the Med. to Slow burn powders for reduced loads that will need a filler in my various rifles with cast bullets. I either use the fast pistol or shotgun powder loads or I use powders/loads that fill the case to a point that no filler is needed. I can pretty much hit the Low,Med and High Velocity ranges I want to achieve going with those type loads.

I would recommend getting the Lyman Cast Bullet manual if you what to shoot cast bullets in a variety of rifles and handguns,it's a great resource and I've never used any filler with the load data in there manual.

PawPaw · June 12, 2011, 07:43 AM

In addition to what res45 said, I don't use fillers in bottlenecked cases like the .30-30. I do use a filler (dacron pillow stuffing) in large straight-wall cases like the .45-70. I'm concerned about the dacron being between the bullet and the powder and causing a constriction when it tries to go through the bottle neck.

nick mcpheron · June 12, 2011, 02:48 PM

Thanks for the schooling guys. Lord knows I need all I can get.

Mike / Tx · June 12, 2011, 08:09 PM

Laser Cast MAnual says,

"Best accuracy will be achieved at velocities in the 1200 to 1400fps range."

If you want the load data shoot me an email and I will scan it at work and send it to you.

In the mean time you might look at Trail Boss for a powder to work with. It was designed with these type loads in mind.

nick mcpheron · June 13, 2011, 12:03 AM

I really appreciate the offer, but I already emailed orgeon Trail for the load data.

June 11, 2011, 07:32 PM	#1
nick mcpheron Junior Member Join Date: May 27, 2011 Location: rogersville, tn Posts: 12	laser cast in my 30-30 I was looking through my reloading supplies and found about 1000 Laser Cast 170gr FP bullits sized at .310. What loads do you guys use with these things? How hard can I push them before substantial leading occurs? Oh, my rifle is a model 94 made in 1972.

June 11, 2011, 08:37 PM	#3
res45 Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2007 Location: NC Posts: 753	The laser cast bullets are pretty hard alloy bullets,but I assume there not gas check bullet but the plain base version. I cast my own 170 gr. FN bullets for my 30-30 but the fastest I've pushed them without the gas check applied is around 1300 fps. using 8.0 grs. of Red Dot in my Sav. pump 30-30 and there very accurate and make great plinking and small game loads. Otherwise I slap a gas check on and shoot them close to factory J bullet velocity for hunting ammo,those bullets are cast form a much softer alloy for expansion purposes. Leading can be caused by a combination of thing in most cases it's improper bullet to bore fit,don't think you will have that problem with the .310 dia. bullets,the next thing is your alloy isn't hard enough to withstand the pressure the load generates and you get gas cutting around the bullets base and the lube burns off which also causes leading. You can email or call Oregon Trail and they will send you load data for there cast rifle bullets from the reloading manual that no longer published. Lyman Cast Bullet manual data,the two highlighted are what I have used with my 170 gr. bullets and two light coats of Lee Alox with no gas check and had no issues with leading. 170 gr. cast bullets Red Dot 6.5 grs. 1159 fps. 8.5 grs. 1348 fps. Unique 7.0 grs. 1240 fps. 10.6 grs. 1555 fps. SR-4756 7.0 grs. 1102 fps. 10.5 grs. 1423 fps. RX7 20.0 grs. 1632 fps. 28.6 grs. 2165 fps. Last edited by res45; June 11, 2011 at 08:44 PM.

June 12, 2011, 07:39 AM	#5
res45 Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2007 Location: NC Posts: 753	With fast to medium burn rates of the "FAST" burning pistol and shotgun powders you don't need a filler as long as you stick to the prescribed load data. Powders like Bullseye,Alliant 2400,Unique,Red Dot,SR-4756 to name a few are easily ignited and are not case capacity or position sensitive,when used with the prescribed data. It when you use powders in the Medium to slow burn rates with reduced loads for cast bullets that a filler is needed for reliable ignition and ballistic consistency. Commercial ammo mfg. selects a powder, which will perform within established velocity and pressure standards, while filling most of the cartridge case,so they don't need fillers. I personally don't use the Med. to Slow burn powders for reduced loads that will need a filler in my various rifles with cast bullets. I either use the fast pistol or shotgun powder loads or I use powders/loads that fill the case to a point that no filler is needed. I can pretty much hit the Low,Med and High Velocity ranges I want to achieve going with those type loads. I would recommend getting the Lyman Cast Bullet manual if you what to shoot cast bullets in a variety of rifles and handguns,it's a great resource and I've never used any filler with the load data in there manual. Last edited by res45; June 12, 2011 at 07:48 AM.

June 12, 2011, 07:43 AM	#6
PawPaw Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2010 Location: Central Louisiana Posts: 3,137	In addition to what res45 said, I don't use fillers in bottlenecked cases like the .30-30. I do use a filler (dacron pillow stuffing) in large straight-wall cases like the .45-70. I'm concerned about the dacron being between the bullet and the powder and causing a constriction when it tries to go through the bottle neck. __________________ Dennis Dezendorf http://pawpawshouse.blogspot.com

June 11, 2011, 08:19 PM	#2
Missionary Member Join Date: June 2, 2011 Posts: 78	Greetings First step is to be sure those lazers are of a diameter large enough to seal the throat area. In my lever rifles I routinely push 50-50 bullets to 1600 fps. Super hard bullets are no magic ingredient for accuracy or velocity. But a proper fitted bullet will sure get you started right. Bullets are pistons and especially with cast bullets, if they do not seal the rapidly expanding gasses to the rear then the shooter can exspect a leason in barrel cleaning.

June 11, 2011, 10:05 PM	#4
nick mcpheron Junior Member Join Date: May 27, 2011 Location: rogersville, tn Posts: 12	Your assumtions are right, they are plain base bullets. How do you keep those small charges of powder next to the primer? Are there any issues I need to watch? Thanks for the info. I will email Orgeon Trail.

June 12, 2011, 02:48 PM	#7
nick mcpheron Junior Member Join Date: May 27, 2011 Location: rogersville, tn Posts: 12	Thanks for the schooling guys. Lord knows I need all I can get.

June 12, 2011, 08:09 PM	#8
Mike / Tx Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Posts: 2,101	Laser Cast MAnual says, "Best accuracy will be achieved at velocities in the 1200 to 1400fps range." If you want the load data shoot me an email and I will scan it at work and send it to you. In the mean time you might look at Trail Boss for a powder to work with. It was designed with these type loads in mind.

June 13, 2011, 12:03 AM	#9
nick mcpheron Junior Member Join Date: May 27, 2011 Location: rogersville, tn Posts: 12	I really appreciate the offer, but I already emailed orgeon Trail for the load data.