Aim help for a Rookie handgunner!

topspin43 · June 5, 2005, 09:33 PM

A fairly new shooter (approx 2K rounds), I am struggling with my Beretta. I am very competent with my Buckmark as the adjustable sites are dialed in perfectly. But my Beretta with it's fixed sights (3 red dots) fires 5-7 inches low at 10 yards. I try to keep the 3 dots in aligned. My groupings are tight but extremely low and centered. To compensate I need to fire seriously high on my target (if I keep the 3 dots aligned). Or, if I try to raise the muzzle too high, so that the front dot is above the rear two, I can no longer see the bullseye. What is the proper way to sight a pistol that shoots low? Will the pistol sight any different at 25 yards?

Struggling... please help! I love this pistol and dammit I'm gonna learn to shoot it as well as my .22.

Pointer · June 5, 2005, 10:25 PM

I really don't mean to be facetious but... If you can get a really good custom smith he might be able to raise the rear sight. But that's probably too expensive.

You may have to replace the rear, or possibly both, sights. But the best approach in this case is to raise the rear.

This, too, is probably expensive.

The cheapest way is to send it back to Beretta and maybe they will fix it... FREE???

I don't think it ever should have left the factory shooting that badly!

I'm sorry you're having trouble with it... it's a pain in the rear sight!
Good luck to you.

Edward429451 · June 5, 2005, 10:26 PM

Just switching grips helped one of my guns to shoot higher, to POA. Others have switched to lighter bullets and still others file their front sight down a little.

If holding the front sight up all the way obscures the target, lower the pistol and use the same sight pic so you can see the target. No one could shoot it but you!

topspin43 · June 6, 2005, 08:08 PM

Some folks at BerettaForum.com suggested heavier ammo. I am shooting 115 gr. and they suggest 147s will shoot higher on the target as it stays in the bore longer. I don't really understand the physics... Sound correct? If so, I'll try it!

Dave Haven · June 6, 2005, 08:50 PM

That's generally correct in handguns. The slower, heavier bullet causes the gun to recoil further before the bullet leaves the barrel.

BillCA · June 6, 2005, 09:22 PM

Try changing your ammo. Experiment a little bit.

If you're using 115gr FMJ, try some 125gr or 147gr ammo. Start off with the generic brands like Winchester-USA, Federal American Eagle, Remington-UMC and PMC's "bronze" line. Your gun will probably like one configuration of bullet weight, powder and velocity better than the others. Once you find that combination look for a premium line of ammo with the same (or close) ballistics.

If your groups are consistent in their size and location, it's doubtful that you're doing something wrong, unless you have the front sight well below the top of the rear sight.

Eghad · June 6, 2005, 11:06 PM

If your groups are tight..then a change in the front sight might be in order....

see a gunsmith.... or aim 5 to 7 inches higher.

itsmike762 · June 12, 2005, 03:21 PM

Heavier bullets will bring up your POI but hopefully you dont have to go all the way to 147gr. From what I have heard and read 147s dont work well for SD.

zzirg · June 29, 2005, 10:15 PM

my brother in law has a beretta elite g and he shoots low with it at 25 yards and said he cant understand why, I shoot it and i get a pretty tight shot group every time and near the bullseye,he seems to be shooting good with good stance,breath and not pulling the gun and hes not jerking the trigger.He is a bit rusty but it happens every time ..he shoots low and im in the black..im thinking maybe theres such a thing as a persons eyes being offset,which causes them to shoot higher or lower then others.We have shot over 400 rounds and always come up with the same results.

armedandsafe · June 30, 2005, 01:21 PM

Quote:

he shoots low and im in the black

This is almost certainly due to grip and trigger control. I have had to change the grip used by most people I've taught. By this, I don't mean the physical stocks on the handgun, but the way a person grips the gun The way you grip a handgun the first time you ever raised one up to eye level is probably not the best way for YOU to grip the gun. This is why it is important to practice not only shooting but drawing and carrying.

Remember that accuracy is repeatability. If you , the gun, the ammo and the bullet do the same thing EVERY time, you are left with one hole in the target.

Pops

yorec · June 30, 2005, 04:14 PM

I've seen many shooters throw rounds low in nice tight little group through guns that others shoot in the black time after time... They do this by anticipation of the recoil. This is probably what Zzirg is experiencing and could very well be what topspin43's problem is. But to know for sure -

Try ball and dummy drills. Have someone load a magazine with live ammo mixed randomly with four or five rounds of dummy (dead) rounds. Then if you don't move when the gun goes "click" instead of "bang" you can be certain you aren't anticipating the recoil.

Also, have you had someone else shoot your gun like Zzirg did for his brother in law? Its a good way to tell whether your gun has the problem or if it IS you. Then you know where to look for further solutions...

I hate to see someone filing on a gun's sights only to find out later there was nothing wrong with them.

VirgilCaine · June 30, 2005, 06:08 PM

Don't line up those dots OOO

try more like this oOo

Pay more attention to the front sight dot....should help.

good luck...keep shooting

topspin43 · July 3, 2005, 06:12 PM

Was shooting Winchester White Box. Got a box of Magtech by accident and PRESTO!!! I'm in he black!!! Both are 115 grain....go figure. The Winchester's were louder and had more "pop" but the Magtechs were "smooth". Know what I mean? Tough to explain.

Dog Confetti · July 4, 2005, 12:08 PM

Sounds like anticipation to me...you can still get good groups, but they're going to be low. I've yet to figure out a way to keep someone from anticipating the shot...the best I can do is say "stop it!" If you have a revolver, that can be a good way to get around it...randomly load the chambers so you don't know when it's going to fire.

June 5, 2005, 09:33 PM	#1
topspin43 Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2005 Location: Palm Beach Posts: 761	Aim help for a Rookie handgunner! A fairly new shooter (approx 2K rounds), I am struggling with my Beretta. I am very competent with my Buckmark as the adjustable sites are dialed in perfectly. But my Beretta with it's fixed sights (3 red dots) fires 5-7 inches low at 10 yards. I try to keep the 3 dots in aligned. My groupings are tight but extremely low and centered. To compensate I need to fire seriously high on my target (if I keep the 3 dots aligned). Or, if I try to raise the muzzle too high, so that the front dot is above the rear two, I can no longer see the bullseye. What is the proper way to sight a pistol that shoots low? Will the pistol sight any different at 25 yards? Struggling... please help! I love this pistol and dammit I'm gonna learn to shoot it as well as my .22. __________________ Be careful out there.

June 6, 2005, 08:08 PM	#4
topspin43 Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2005 Location: Palm Beach Posts: 761	Some folks at BerettaForum.com suggested heavier ammo. I am shooting 115 gr. and they suggest 147s will shoot higher on the target as it stays in the bore longer. I don't really understand the physics... Sound correct? If so, I'll try it! __________________ Be careful out there.

June 6, 2005, 08:50 PM	#5
Dave Haven Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2000 Location: near Flagstaff, AZ Posts: 790	That's generally correct in handguns. The slower, heavier bullet causes the gun to recoil further before the bullet leaves the barrel. __________________ NRA Endowment Member FCSA Life Member Subs are cool, but belt-feds RULE!

June 6, 2005, 09:22 PM	#6
BillCA Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, Ca Posts: 7,117	Try changing your ammo. Experiment a little bit. If you're using 115gr FMJ, try some 125gr or 147gr ammo. Start off with the generic brands like Winchester-USA, Federal American Eagle, Remington-UMC and PMC's "bronze" line. Your gun will probably like one configuration of bullet weight, powder and velocity better than the others. Once you find that combination look for a premium line of ammo with the same (or close) ballistics. If your groups are consistent in their size and location, it's doubtful that you're doing something wrong, unless you have the front sight well below the top of the rear sight. __________________ BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)

June 6, 2005, 11:06 PM	#7
Eghad Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 6,231	If your groups are tight..then a change in the front sight might be in order.... see a gunsmith.... or aim 5 to 7 inches higher. __________________ Have a nice day at the range NRA Life Member

June 5, 2005, 10:25 PM	#2
Pointer Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2005 Location: Utah Posts: 2,559	I really don't mean to be facetious but... If you can get a really good custom smith he might be able to raise the rear sight. But that's probably too expensive. You may have to replace the rear, or possibly both, sights. But the best approach in this case is to raise the rear. This, too, is probably expensive. The cheapest way is to send it back to Beretta and *maybe* they will fix it... FREE??? I don't think it ever should have left the factory shooting that badly! I'm sorry you're having trouble with it... it's a pain in the rear sight! Good luck to you.

June 5, 2005, 10:26 PM	#3
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	Just switching grips helped one of my guns to shoot higher, to POA. Others have switched to lighter bullets and still others file their front sight down a little. If holding the front sight up all the way obscures the target, lower the pistol and use the same sight pic so you can see the target. No one could shoot it but you!

June 12, 2005, 03:21 PM	#8
itsmike762 Member Join Date: October 12, 2004 Posts: 60	Heavier bullets will bring up your POI but hopefully you dont have to go all the way to 147gr. From what I have heard and read 147s dont work well for SD.

June 29, 2005, 10:15 PM	#9
zzirg Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2005 Location: minnesota Posts: 184	shooting low my brother in law has a beretta elite g and he shoots low with it at 25 yards and said he cant understand why, I shoot it and i get a pretty tight shot group every time and near the bullseye,he seems to be shooting good with good stance,breath and not pulling the gun and hes not jerking the trigger.He is a bit rusty but it happens every time ..he shoots low and im in the black..im thinking maybe theres such a thing as a persons eyes being offset,which causes them to shoot higher or lower then others.We have shot over 400 rounds and always come up with the same results.

June 30, 2005, 04:14 PM	#11
yorec Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2000 Location: Wyoming Posts: 2,328	I've seen many shooters throw rounds low in nice tight little group through guns that others shoot in the black time after time... They do this by anticipation of the recoil. This is probably what Zzirg is experiencing and could very well be what topspin43's problem is. But to know for sure - Try ball and dummy drills. Have someone load a magazine with live ammo mixed randomly with four or five rounds of dummy (dead) rounds. Then if you don't move when the gun goes "click" instead of "bang" you can be certain you aren't anticipating the recoil. Also, have you had someone else shoot your gun like Zzirg did for his brother in law? Its a good way to tell whether your gun has the problem or if it IS you. Then you know where to look for further solutions... I hate to see someone filing on a gun's sights only to find out later there was nothing wrong with them. __________________ What part of "... shall not be infringed..." don't you understand?

June 30, 2005, 06:08 PM	#12
VirgilCaine Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 2004 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 419	Don't line up those dots OOO try more like this oOo Pay more attention to the front sight dot....should help. good luck...keep shooting __________________ "Danger Itself Is The Best Remedy For Danger"

July 3, 2005, 06:12 PM	#13
topspin43 Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2005 Location: Palm Beach Posts: 761	Ammo....it's the ammo! Was shooting Winchester White Box. Got a box of Magtech by accident and PRESTO!!! I'm in he black!!! Both are 115 grain....go figure. The Winchester's were louder and had more "pop" but the Magtechs were "smooth". Know what I mean? Tough to explain. __________________ Be careful out there.

July 4, 2005, 12:08 PM	#14
Dog Confetti Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2005 Location: New Mexico Posts: 212	Sounds like anticipation to me...you can still get good groups, but they're going to be low. I've yet to figure out a way to keep someone from anticipating the shot...the best I can do is say "stop it!" If you have a revolver, that can be a good way to get around it...randomly load the chambers so you don't know when it's going to fire.