|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
October 18, 2011, 10:32 AM | #76 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 9, 2010
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 541
|
Quote:
|
|
October 18, 2011, 10:44 AM | #77 |
Junior member
Join Date: January 10, 2010
Location: lockhart, texas
Posts: 161
|
Exactly, Fas1. Guys that post "well, I wouldnt shoot him for
stealing my tv, etc" probably in a real situation wouldnt shoot ANYONE! More than likely, he would freeze up and get shot with his own gun. You start making up rules to when and where you are gonna shoot someone THAT IS IN YOUR HOUSE, you are already in a world of hurt, in my opinion! |
October 18, 2011, 11:22 AM | #79 |
Junior member
Join Date: January 10, 2010
Location: lockhart, texas
Posts: 161
|
Its good, too! come on down, anytime!
|
October 18, 2011, 11:42 AM | #80 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 4, 2010
Posts: 5,468
|
There is also always the possibility that the perp is armed. Shoot, he just stole my ginsu knives. I keep pistols in my living room, a rifle in my closet, and my basement has a standard gun case with glass front.
No, I don't call 911 every time I hear a bump in the night. I go and investigate. Under those circumstances, an armed perp, especially if he is holding one of my loaded home defense weapons, will be in full rigor mortis before he leaves the place. The way my house is built, it would be simple suicide to go from floor to floor, knowing that there is an intruder. The beauty of that is that the intruder will also go bacon side up if he tries to invade a different floor. So, as I mentioned before, IF I HAVE A CONFIRMED HOME INVASION, I will retreat as possible. I already have. My family will be upstairs. Anywhere else, well, we're already boxed in if they even make it through the front door and I've no choice but use force, armed or not. I'm not taking any risks of being attacked by a NOT VISIBLY ARMED intruder. The real question. I'm upstairs. I've called 911. I've yelled that the cops are on the way, and get out. I'm going to be standing at the top of those stairs, and if a person so much as peeks around the corner, I will fire. I have retreated, and been pursued, and have no choices left. That's how it works for me. Any other person should be in a similar situation and probably have a similar plan. The first part of that plan, though, is a steel door and a deep set deadbolt. |
October 18, 2011, 12:27 PM | #81 | |
Staff
Join Date: June 8, 2008
Posts: 4,022
|
Quote:
|
|
October 18, 2011, 12:40 PM | #82 |
Member
Join Date: October 13, 2011
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 26
|
hesitation
I think hesitation is human nature in a scenario like this. I think that given his distance (not much) and the time of day (he just woke up) and the situation itself (punk kids), he probably did the best that anyone could hope for.
On the other hand, had those kids robbed a house from someone who had just gotten off work, or maybe a night owl of a man. . . wow. 4 funerals would be going on for sure. As far as the castle doctrine goes, I've never heard of a case where a home owner met the guidelines of the doctrine and was taken to civil court and sued. That being said. . . never heard of one involving kids. If you look hard enough you can find old Texas laws from the Republic that specifically state you can shoot a man for stealing your horse, being on your property after dark (cattle rustlers), and another one about stealing. . . somethign about if a thief takes property from you that you can use deadly force to stop him (while in progress). That being said, just because you can shoot someone legally, doesnt mean its always what NEEDS to be done. I've been in plenty of fights. Pull out a gun, fights over, and thank God I've never had to shoot someone yet. The last two fights were pretty ruff. . . and quick. . . too quick for a gun for whatever thats worth. So for safety's sake, retreat as possible, stay in relatively good shape, learn some defensive techniques as well as practicing with your firearm. |
October 18, 2011, 12:41 PM | #83 |
Member
Join Date: July 6, 2010
Location: Dallas tx
Posts: 73
|
Texas gives home owners $500 dollars and a gift certificate to bass pro shop for every thief they shoot in their property.. They call it a reward for making the neighborhood safer.. And if they die you also get a pair of free tickets for the state fair... You gotta love texas... Lol..lol..
__________________
my fear was thrown along with my last diaper.. |
October 18, 2011, 01:20 PM | #84 | ||
Staff
Join Date: June 8, 2008
Posts: 4,022
|
Quote:
That presumption is rebuttable. Should the forensic evidence indicate that they entered without force, or if they had been departing (perhaps empty handed, if in Texas), the homeowner would be in a world of hurt. And should that happen, what more damaging evidence could a prosecutor ask for than a public posting indicating that the actor was predisposed to shoot someone? Quote:
|
||
October 18, 2011, 01:34 PM | #85 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: June 16, 2011
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,497
|
Quote:
Quote:
Depends on the laws in your state, but a 2 second Google search of the terms "Burglar sues for injury" turns up an awful lot of articles and forum topics. About the same for "homeowner charged after shooting"
__________________
"The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank" - Montgomery Scott |
||
October 18, 2011, 01:44 PM | #86 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
|
fas1 and hartlock, glad to know we have two big, brave guys like you. We could use you over here in Afghanistan...
Seriously, though, from one of those guys you seem to think just couldn't pull the trigger... what if that figure in the dark turns out to be the thirteen or fourteen year old kid from the house next door, trying to steal your XBox? Are you really going to feel good about shooting him? I mean, he was a thief and all... Or what if he's one of your drunk buddies, who just had a fight with his wife, and decided to stay at your place? (That one has happened to more than one person.) Are you going to smile the next day, when you look in the mirror, thinking "Too bad my friend was such an idiot, but I'm good," ? As far as bravery, one could argue that it takes more bravery to wait long enough to identify the target and his intentions, than to shoot the intruder on sight. I have a lot of respect for US door-kickers, who are asked to do exactly that. Or do you think we've minimized casualties to women and children over the years because our guys have just shot everybody they encounter? Similarly, for all we read of SWAT teams hitting the wrong address, how often as a percentage of raids do we read about them shooting people who weren't shooting at them? It stands out, when it happens, because it normally doesn't happen. Personally, I think some of the louder mouths in here are compensating for some kind of lack. |
October 18, 2011, 02:02 PM | #87 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 16, 2011
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,497
|
Aren't you supposed to know your target...etc...etc?
As one who has looked at the business end of his future FiL's GP100 4", I can say that its generally a good idea to look before pulling the trigger. Girlfriend (now fiancee) lived with her parents at the time. I had a key. I stopped over after work but before she or her mom got home. Her dad was sleeping on the couch and when I grabbed a beer out of the fridge the bottle clanking woke him up. He was very stealthy for a disabled 70 year old. I was just standing up from the fridge when I heard the hammer cock and felt the front sight on my right earlobe. Ended well as he figured out it was me, but could have been bad. Ever since them I close the front door loudly and stomp my feet on the way in while calling out for him if he's the only one home.
__________________
"The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank" - Montgomery Scott |
October 18, 2011, 04:15 PM | #88 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 15, 2010
Location: United States of America
Posts: 1,877
|
Quote:
__________________
"Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!" -Admiral Farragut @ Battle of Mobile Bay 05AUG1864 |
|
October 18, 2011, 04:25 PM | #89 |
Junior member
Join Date: January 10, 2010
Location: lockhart, texas
Posts: 161
|
Here we go! Now, we got MLEAKE tellin us that we are
bloodthirsty killers, just shooting at stuff in the dark, and has to put in questions about our male anatomy, too! Get a grip, sir! You do what you want in your house, I will do what needs to be done in mine, if thats ok with you, and even if it aint ok! I never said anything bout shooting blindly in the dark, and neither did anyone else! Can you read? Im just wondering! And if you are really in Afghanistan, thank you for your service. Im not trying to be some hero, or whatever, just gonna protect what I own and my loved ones! I think you need to chill a little and maybe take a course in reading comprehension! |
October 18, 2011, 04:32 PM | #90 |
Junior member
Join Date: January 10, 2010
Location: lockhart, texas
Posts: 161
|
And one more thing, since YOU brought it up, when I was a kid,
cops came up to the door, asked if so and so were there, and if they were, they were asked to come outside, and they arrested them! Now, those big brave door-knockers, as you call them, come in the middle of the night, with body armor, masks on their faces, and kick down the doors! Yeah, THATS a real improvement! |
October 18, 2011, 04:44 PM | #91 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
|
Well, let's see, hartlock...
fas1 said, Quote:
Quote:
But now you are saying, Quote:
You're trying to have it both ways. As far as my service, I'm a retired Navy pilot, and now I do contract work in Afghanistan. One of the forum mods is also over here; he and I say hey sometimes on our way to work. |
|||
October 18, 2011, 04:50 PM | #92 |
Junior member
Join Date: January 10, 2010
Location: lockhart, texas
Posts: 161
|
I know the rules about shooting, sir. Ive been doin this for
a long time, too! Only guy I ever shot, I shot him in the daytime. I would never shoot at a shadow, or anything like that. I know well enough to identify my target before shooting, Im just not gonna make a War & Peace deal about it, like take as long to make a decision as it does to read that book! THAT will get you killed! |
October 18, 2011, 04:58 PM | #93 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
|
But you're ok with fas1 taking a shot before identifying whether the person is holding knife, gun, or TV? (Which would also imply not really identifying the person...)
Or you were just high-fiving him for some other reason, if you know better? |
October 18, 2011, 05:00 PM | #94 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 9, 2010
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 541
|
Quote:
I don't think I mentioned bravery in the equation at all, but I am brave enough to protect my loved ones and have no remorse about it. |
|
October 18, 2011, 05:05 PM | #95 |
Junior member
Join Date: January 10, 2010
Location: lockhart, texas
Posts: 161
|
MLEAKE, I think you have some issues, sir. If you wanta
continue this pointless discussion, have at it. I think ive made my point, and I think you understand what im saying, too! I always go back to what my mom used to tell me: never argue with someone that is bent on arguing just for the sake of arguing! Take care, sir, and be careful over there. Hartlock out! |
October 18, 2011, 05:07 PM | #96 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
|
So, you'd protect your loved ones by shooting a guy with his hands full of television...
And you don't think that would bother you, or your family? In Texas, you might even be ok. In most states, you would not be. But that's only talking in the legal sense, not the mental health sense. Most people who shoot somebody have at least some emotional issue with it; many times, the friends and relatives of the shooter have altered perceptions of the shooter as a result, too. |
October 18, 2011, 05:11 PM | #97 |
Junior member
Join Date: January 10, 2010
Location: lockhart, texas
Posts: 161
|
NO, SIR! IT WOULD NOT BOTHER ME AT ALL!
HE IS A THIEF. HE DOESNT HAVE A RIGHT TO MY TV! YES, I WOULD SHOOT HIM DEAD,RIGHT THERE! ( I thought I had explained what my actions would be!) Ah, the old lack of reading comprehension! |
October 18, 2011, 05:15 PM | #98 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
|
In that case, Hartlock, there are a good number of people who would say that, while your theoretical shooting would be legal in Texas, it would be considered immoral in most of the country, and even by some Texans.
And, in that case, I'd call you bloodthirsty, and not somebody with whom I'm likely to agree on much. I'll shoot somebody who poses a threat. I'm not shooting somebody over a TV. My dog will probably bite him, though. I'm fine with that. If that same guy drops the TV and pulls a weapon, he's done. (Edit: To clarify - he has made himself a legitimate target. I am NOT saying I'd execute him, just that he's now raised the bar to where shooting to stop is ethical and indicated.) Call it a philosophical difference if you will, but to me it's a huge distinction. |
October 18, 2011, 05:18 PM | #99 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 9, 2010
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 541
|
Quote:
“If he wouldn't have entered my house, he wouldn't have been shot,” Lemes responded to prosecutors before both sides rested. If he had it to do over again, homeowner Ray Lemes still would have shot a college student who bled to death on his cul-de-sac four years ago, he told jurors Tuesday at his murder trial. |
|
October 18, 2011, 05:27 PM | #100 | ||||
Staff
Join Date: June 8, 2008
Posts: 4,022
|
Quote:
This is somewhat less damning, but the effect would be additive: And, of course, this: We all need to understand a few things:
|
||||
|
|