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April 17, 2009, 09:34 AM | #1 | |
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Obama Seeks to Reintroduce Failed 1997 U.S.-Mexico Weapons Treaty
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/17/wo...litics&emc=rss
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The text of the treaty (Inter-American Convention Against the Illicit Manufacturing of and Trafficking in Firearms, Ammunition, Explosives and other Related Materials) is located here: http://www.oas.org/juridico/English/treaties/a-63.html So far, I have found only this Editorial in the St. Louis Examiner opposing the treaty on RKBA issues: http://www.examiner.com/x-2581-St-Lo...an-Arms-Treaty The main concern of the author is a provision in the treaty requiring anyone who manufactures ammunition or firearms to have a license from the government. Under our current laws, this would make such activities as reloading, assembling an AR15 from an upper and lower, building a 1911 on a frame, and similar home gunsmithing projects require an FFL or similar license - along with the regulatory burdens that might entail. Be sure to contact your Senators and let them know how you feel about this: http://www.senate.gov/general/contac...nators_cfm.cfm |
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April 17, 2009, 10:24 AM | #2 |
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Forgive my ignorance, but assembling an AR-15 would not be manufacture, would it? Only the stripped lower would technically be the firearm, and you are not manufacturing that.
What am I missing? |
April 17, 2009, 10:25 AM | #3 |
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Does the treaty enforce those provisions or foes it require signatories to pass laws to enforce them?
if the former the question I have is can a us citizen be prosecuted in us courts for violation of a treaty? And if its the latter would the house and senate actually pass the laws the treaty requires? I am under the impression that its the latter and treaties must be backed up and enforced with laws. I could be wrong though. |
April 17, 2009, 11:08 AM | #4 | ||
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April 17, 2009, 05:01 PM | #5 |
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What are you missing....Read the treaty::::
Definitions For the purposes of this Convention, the following definitions shall apply: 1. "Illicit manufacturing" : the manufacture or assembly of firearms, ammunition, explosives, and other related materials: b. without a license from a competent governmental authority of the State Party where the manufacture or assembly takes place; Who will license you to hand load, or assemble you weapon after cleaning??? Not to worry we already have a government orginzation that is giving all the people in our industry fits: http://www.progunleaders.org/DDTC/ When we ratify a treaty then we MUST pass laws to fulfill the treaty obligations.. Sleep well ladies and gentlemen your government is at work. |
April 17, 2009, 09:56 PM | #6 | |
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April 20, 2009, 08:11 AM | #7 | |
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NRA-ILA Alert
NRA-ILA weighs in on treaty...
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April 22, 2009, 05:01 PM | #8 | |
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Treaties and Reloading without a permit
If CIFTA is ratified, any speculation on permits required to avoid illicit manufacturing of ammunition, and does this appear to be on course to be accepted?
Anyone keep up with this stuff currently, or is this just old news to file in the circular file with the rest of the drive-by posts? http://www.oas.org/juridico/english/treaties/a-63.html
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April 22, 2009, 05:39 PM | #9 | |
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G'day. I received an email from a friend in America today, part of witch states,
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April 22, 2009, 05:40 PM | #10 |
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This seems to be the first credible and plausible piece of "gun control" I've seen from the Obama administration and it scares me. It's a backdoor attempt and one might say it's not even about gun control in the US (although some would disagree). But it might be successful. I'm waiting to see what Pelosi and Reed have to say on the matter. If they do not support it, it will be a dead issue. I have scoured the net looking for more info, but aside from Obama, I have not heard any other politician's views.
I'm more worried about "illicit reloading" than stamping and serializing of ammo. That ain't never gonna happen... |
April 22, 2009, 06:29 PM | #11 | ||
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Skullandcrossbones65, i am refering to this passage of the text, from the link in my first post. Section B particularily.
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April 22, 2009, 11:41 PM | #12 |
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I'm going to merge this with Barts thread, which deals about this and is still open. I suggest everyone read this thread from the beginning, look at the link (to the treaty - its a short read), and get up to speed with this.
It is most certainly a back door into gun control. |
April 27, 2009, 01:51 PM | #13 |
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I found this letter on another gun site, it shows how the Anti gun-rights folks can use the CIFTA Treaty. orchidhunter
To: Barack Hussein Obama, President of the United States From: (As if written by the anti-gun-rights lobby) Re: CIFTA Treaty Dear Mr. President, We commend your common-sense support of the CIFTA Treaty for reducing illicit arms manufacture and gun trafficking. This is a brilliant stratagem in the exhausting effort to rid our country of the scourge of gun violence. With the treaty in place and ratified by the Senate, you will be obligated to take certain steps with regard to private ownership of firearms that we have never been able to move through the houses of Congress. Further, you will be able to take these actions unilaterally, making swift change possible and, under international obligation to act you are insulated from direct criticism. Our attorneys assure us the steps we outline here are in full compliance with international law and the terms of the treaty itself. Article VI of the U.S. Constitution unambiguously gives such a treaty a degree of supremacy over the nation, its laws, the states and the public (even though some in the powerful gun lobby deny this or point to questionable court precedents). This is especially useful as we adapt to a global economy, world courts, an empowered U.N. and environmental concerns on a planetary scale. In addition, we know that if a law can be interpreted to either spread or curtail the proliferation of arms in the hands of average people, the common-sense interpretation must be to curtail arms whenever possible. CIFTA provides the perfect platform for this very reasonable approach. There will be little disagreement that CIFTA's surface goal of keeping arms out of the hands of dictators, tyrants, terrorists, violent criminal cartels, syndicates and gangs, insurgents, non-state actors, and genocidal regimes is a worthy goal. The value for domestic gun control here and abroad is equally worthy, and lies in virtually every measure required to track and control arms. We are eager to see your signature on this important step forward for the safety of Americans. |
May 14, 2009, 07:42 AM | #14 |
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Dreadful. Positively dreadful that a Presidential administration is so gung ho to abandon national sovereignty and go to war with his own populace.
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May 14, 2009, 12:17 PM | #15 |
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Dreadful? Was there actually any doubt before this person was even elected? Apparently people failed to listen to what he, and his sidekick, said and did both before and during the election.
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May 14, 2009, 12:31 PM | #16 | |
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I'll put it simply - the Obama administration considers the greatest threat to this country to come from its own law-abiding citizenry. If that doesn't send chills down your spine, I don't know what would. |
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May 27, 2009, 11:18 PM | #17 |
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Lou Dobbs also weighed in on this. Very interesting on just how it is being presented.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9X2V...layer_embedded |
May 28, 2009, 02:49 PM | #18 | |
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May 28, 2009, 03:10 PM | #19 |
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I don't see how you could reach that conclusion (breach of contract) since the Constitution expressly authorizes the President to sign treaties and the Senate to ratify them.
However, I'd appreciate it if those interested started a separate thread on that subject so we could keep this one focused on the Treaty itself. |
May 28, 2009, 07:17 PM | #21 |
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The treaty, signed by President Clinton, stalled in the Senate, but went into effect in 1998 after two dozen other nations ratified it. The treaty seeks to crack down on illicit firearms by, among other things, establishing a system for the import, export and transfer of firearms, and by fostering cooperation among law enforcement agencies investigating illegal trafficking.
How can we do that if most of the south of the border cops are corrupt and on the take as well as the army.
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