Tips for shipping handgun to manufacter with UPS

[Carmady]

thedudeabides: "Let's be clear, shipping firearms is a racket for UPS and FedEx. They cite all sorts of nonsense laws about minimizing the time they're holding the hot potato to justify gouging you 100 bucks to send a friggin firearm."

That's the exact impression I got with UPS when I called them.

It doesn't matter what any sticky says, the shipping companies are going to act how they want to act.

The people at FedEx gave me a few options for shipping a handgun, and Express Saver was the cheapest. I ship them insured with signature required, for about a third of what it would cost if I went to UPS.

A few years ago I took an old 1800s cap and ball musket to a UPS store, and they refused to have anything to do with it. I told them it wasn't a firearm. They didn't care, they weren't messing with it.

[James K]

You can ship an antique by mail (USPS). Just make sure, preferably in advance, that the clerks at that P.O. know the regulations. If you are in a big city, it will be best to mail from a small P.O. in a small town.

Jim

[dogtown tom]

chris in va

I seriously doubt that as it is Kentucky Gun Company. They are a major distributor.

All you need to do is read the UPS tariff and you'll have no doubts.
I get at least one handgun a week from KyGunCo..........NONE have ever arrived UPS Ground.......always Next Day.

James K ......they MIGHT be willing to mail it for you if you show them it is unloaded and pack it yourself.

DON'T seal the box! If the dealer ships it for you he's required to log the firearm into his books.

JohnKSa .....They have a bit more legal leeway when shipping firearms than you and I do....

No we don't. Licensees follow the same UPS & FedEx tariffs as everyone else.

oneloudvous ....Has anyone actually had a a firearm lost/stolen in transit by UPS/Fex ex?

Last month, a Taurus Judge on its way to me via USPS was stolen. When the box sat in the Coppell, TX Sort Center for several days they returned it to the shipper in North Carolina. (box was empty when they got it back)

[JohnKSa]

No we don't. Licensees follow the same UPS & FedEx tariffs as everyone else.

That is correct. However what I said does not contradict that. What I said was that FFLs have more legal leeway when shipping firearms. The point was because they are less likely than a non-FFL to get in legal trouble when shipping firearms, they may be more willing to bend the shipping company firearm policies.

[dogtown tom]

JohnKSa

That is correct. However what I said does not contradict that. What I said was that FFLs have more legal leeway when shipping firearms.

If I'm correct, why do you repeat erroneous information?

The point was because they are less likely than a non-FFL to get in legal trouble when shipping firearms, they may be more willing to bend the shipping company firearm policies.

Please explain.
Anyone who follows Federal law in shipping a firearm doesn't get "in legal trouble".
Violating a shipping companies policies is not the same as violating Federal law.

With the exception of mailing firearms other than rifles or shotguns via USPS, licensed dealers and manufacturers have to follow the exact same federal laws as anyone else.......and in a couple of cases we have additional requirements.

To make the statement that FFL's have "more legal leeway when shipping firearms than you and I do" is completely and wholly incorrect.

[JohnKSa]

With the exception of mailing firearms other than rifles or shotguns via USPS, licensed dealers and manufacturers have to follow the exact same federal laws as anyone else...

Ok, so you listed one situation where FFLs have more legal leeway when shipping firearms than non-FFLs. I can think of another. An FFL can ship a firearm to a non-FFL in another state after repairing it or replacing it while a non-FFL could not.

[Don P]

Maybe it varies state to state.

UPS and Fedex are the same no matter where you live. STI should have sent a shipping label for warranty work. Saves a lot of trouble.

[dogtown tom]

JohnKSa

Ok, so you listed one situation where FFLs have more legal leeway when shipping firearms than non-FFLs. I can think of another. An FFL can ship a firearm to a non-FFL in another state after repairing it or replacing it while a non-FFL could not.

That's NOT "legal leeway".

Nonlicensees don't repair or replace firearms for others, nor would they be able to mail a replacement firearm interstate. Since the OP (and others in this thread) aren't licensees, bringing up the return of a repaired or replaced firearm has nothing to do with this thread at all.

Your original comment implied that FFL's could "bend the rules" with shippers. Remember writing this?:

"The point was because they are less likely than a non-FFL to get in legal trouble when shipping firearms, they may be more willing to bend the shipping company firearm policies..."

FFL's who bend the rules would get in the same trouble as anyone else. Your premise that licensees have "legal leeway" is flat wrong.

[Unlicensed Dremel]

Best tip, as far as I am concerned, is to use FedEx, not UPS.

[JohnKSa]

Your premise that licensees have "legal leeway" is flat wrong.

I have to say that I'm somewhat at a loss. From the beginning, your responses to my comments have been oddly oblique.

I initially made a comment about "legal leeway" and you responded with a comment about UPS and FEDEX tarrifs--shippers policies, not laws--a complete non sequitur.

Then you categorically denied that licensees had any additional legal leeway but in the same breath provided a perfect example of the additional legal leeway that licensees enjoy over non-licensees.

Given that we don't seem to be speaking the same language, I think I'm going to bow out at this point...

[Sevens]

If STI has given you a UPS label and already paid for the shipping... you don't need to visit any UPS facility, be it an official building or a branded strip-mall store. All you need to do is get that package in to their system.

You can hand it to a driver or drop it in a UPS box if it'll fit in the opening of that box. If you see a guy driving around in a large truck or you pass a UPS driver who is walking through a store, hand him the sealed package and it's well on it's way.

If anyone in the whole operation asks you what's inside, tell them it's not a hazmat and it's machine metal parts going back to the manufacturer at the request of the manufacturer, and being paid for by the manufacturer.

[Dragline45]

You can hand it to a driver or drop it in a UPS box if it'll fit in the opening of that box.

You can also schedule a pickup to your home. Actually each time I was sent a UPS shipping label from a manufacturer they set up the pickup for me.

[dogtown tom]

Sevens If STI has given you a UPS label and already paid for the shipping... you don't need to visit any UPS facility, be it an official building or a branded strip-mall store. All you need to do is get that package in to their system.

You can hand it to a driver or drop it in a UPS box if it'll fit in the opening of that box. If you see a guy driving around in a large truck or you pass a UPS driver who is walking through a store, hand him the sealed package and it's well on it's way.

If anyone in the whole operation asks you what's inside, tell them it's not a hazmat and it's machine metal parts going back to the manufacturer at the request of the manufacturer, and being paid for by the manufacturer.

While you most certainly could do that, it's clearly not permitted by UPS tariffs.

Getting Your Firearm Shipment to UPS
Firearms (including handguns) may be shipped only through a UPS Scheduled Pickup Account (specifically, Daily Pickup, Daily On-Route Pickup, UPS Smart Pickup®, and Day-Specific Pickup), or through a UPS Customer Center (counters at UPS operational facilities). Note: Firearms (including handguns) are not accepted for shipment via UPS Drop Boxes, UPS On-Call Pickup®, or at locations of The UPS Store® or any third party retailer.

Dragline45

You can also schedule a pickup to your home. Actually each time I was sent a UPS shipping label from a manufacturer they set up the pickup for me.

No you cannot. See above.

[Dragline45]

No you cannot. See above.

I guess I was just imagining the three times UPS range my doorbell to pick up a firearm to be sent back to the manufacturer . The most recent was just a few months ago. I was sent a UPS shipping label from Beretta, Beretta set a pickup date for my handgun, I handed it off to the driver, and a couple months later it was on my doorstep. It went down the same exact way when I had to send handguns to S&W and Sig.

Also everything on this page says shipping firearms through UPS is perfectly fine. Note the passage below.

UPS accepts packages containing firearms (as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code) for transportation only (a) between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors (as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code), and government agencies and (b) where not otherwise prohibited by federal, state or local law (i) from an individual to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector; and (ii) from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to an individual.

http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/res.../firearms.html

I also don't get how you could have read this passage and got from it that firearms cannot be scheduled for pickup from your home.

Firearms (including handguns) may be shipped only through a UPS Scheduled Pickup Account (specifically, Daily Pickup, Daily On-Route Pickup, UPS Smart Pickup®, and Day-Specific Pickup), or through a UPS Customer Center (counters at UPS operational facilities). Note: Firearms (including handguns) are not accepted for shipment via UPS Drop Boxes, UPS On-Call Pickup®, or at locations of The UPS Store® or any third party retailer.

Whatever the UPS On-Call Pickup® is must be a separate/special service from what they usually offer as firearms are exempt from it.

.

[dogtown tom]

Dragline45

I guess I was just imagining the three times UPS range my doorbell to pick up a firearm to be sent back to the manufacturer .

I didn't say it didn't happen. I said it was a violation of UPS tariff to do so. I have people ship handguns to me via FedEx/UPS Ground all the time, which isn't a violation of Federal law but does clearly violate FedEx/UPS tariffs. I also regularly receive handguns from nonlicensees in a USPS Priority Mail box.......that IS a felony.

Just because YOU did it doesn't make it any less of a violation of the shippers published policies.

Also everything on this page says shipping firearms through UPS is perfectly fine. Note the passage below.

No argument there......but you do have to follow their policies.

I also don't get how you could have read this passage and got from it that firearms cannot be scheduled for pickup from your home.

You don't get it because you either didn't read the entire page or chose to believe that it didn't apply to you.

Whatever the UPS On-Call Pickup® is must be a separate/special service from what they usually offer as firearms are exempt from it.

No sir, that's On Call Pick Up............you call when you have a package.

You'll also note that UPS tells you specifically how to get your firearm to UPS:
UPS Scheduled Pickup Account (specifically, Daily Pickup, Daily On-Route Pickup, UPS Smart Pickup®, and Day-Specific Pickup), or through a UPS Customer Center (counters at UPS operational facilities).

Do you have a UPS Scheduled Pickup Account? If not, then you violated their tariff.





.

[Dragline45]

I didn't say it didn't happen. I said it was a violation of UPS tariff to do so.

How so? It's clearly written in their regulations that shipping firearms is perfectly fine.

Do you have a UPS Scheduled Pickup Account? If not, then you violated their tariff.

Even if that's the case, I am assuming most major firearm manufacturers do. I have sent guns back to Beretta, S&W, and Sig. Along with receiving a UPS pre-paid shipping label from them, they scheduled a pickup for me at my home. In that case I did not violate their tariff.

[dogtown tom]

Dragline45

How so? It's clearly written in their regulations that shipping firearms is perfectly fine.

"How so?"...........well duh........it's right there in the stuff you quoted from UPS.
Shipping firearms isn't the question, it's how you went about it that violated their policy.

Even if that's the case, I am assuming most major firearm manufacturers do. I have sent guns back to Beretta, S&W, and Sig. Along with receiving a UPS pre-paid shipping label from them, they scheduled a pickup for me at my home. In that case I did not violate their tariff.

Seriously?
You're going to tell us that Beretta, S&W and Sig magically scheduled your pickup with UPS? They knew when you would have that box ready to go? Sending you a shipping label isn't the same as scheduling a pickup.

That's real odd considering YOU wrote above that YOU called UPS for the pickup.
Get your story straight.

[Dragline45]

Originally Posted by dogtown tom

Seriously?
You're going to tell us that Beretta, S&W and Sig magically scheduled your pickup with UPS? They knew when you would have that box ready to go? Sending you a shipping label isn't the same as scheduling a pickup.

Here is the email I received prior to the pickup being setup.

Thank you for contacting Beretta Customer Support. Based upon what you have told us, we believe that it would be best if one of our factory-trained technicians diagnosed your firearm. You can generate a complimentary UPS Call Tag by clicking this link or copying and pasting it into your browser: http://returns.upsrow.com/ Enter the Login ID of "xxxxxxx" and the Password of "xxxxxxx" Once you have entered our UPS Call Tag Generation application, please read and follow the instructions to generate a call tag and ship your firearm. Please select the Beretta USA Corp for the Ship To location. If you enter your e-mail address when generating your shipping request, you will receive a delivery confirmation as well as a shipment confirmation e-mail when your firearm is received and shipped by Beretta.


When clicking that link and entering the ID and password this is what pops up





Followed by this form I filled out.





This was the confirmation email I was sent after filling out the form above.




Notice at the top of the confirmation email below it says the email was sent to me at the request of B USA Returns which refers to Beretta USA Returns. Upon completing the online form a UPS shipping label was sent to my home along with a number I could enter online to tell me when I could expect the driver to show up at my home for pickup. I happened to have a bunch of UPS shipping boxes already at my house since I needed them for work, so I packed it up in one of those, slapped on a shipping label, and handed it to the driver when he showed up at my home.

Originally Posted by dogtown tom

That's real odd considering YOU wrote above that YOU called UPS for the pickup.
Get your story straight.

Really now? Here are quotes from my four posts in this thread.

Originally Posted by Dragline45

I have had to send guns back to S&W, Beretta, and Sig. Each time I was sent a UPS shipping label with a scheduled pickup right to my home.

Originally Posted by Dragline45

Actually each time I was sent a UPS shipping label from a manufacturer they set up the pickup for me.

Originally Posted by Dragline45

The most recent was just a few months ago. I was sent a UPS shipping label from Beretta, Beretta set a pickup date for my handgun, I handed it off to the driver, and a couple months later it was on my doorstep.

Originally Posted by Dragline45

Along with receiving a UPS pre-paid shipping label from them, they scheduled a pickup for me at my home.

[dogtown tom]

Uh.........Beretta isn't UPS.

I posted EXACTLY what is in UPS tariffs.
You didn't follow them.

End of story.

[Dragline45]

Originally Posted by dogtown tom

Uh.........Beretta isn't UPS.

I posted EXACTLY what is in UPS tariffs.
You didn't follow them.

End of story.

Are you serious right now? You claimed that Beretta did not set up the pickup from my home for me with UPS, I gave you clear proof that they did. You claimed that I said I called UPS to set up the shipping, I gave you clear proof that I didn't.

Once again, according to UPS.

UPS accepts packages containing firearms (as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code) for transportation only (a) between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors (as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code), and government agencies and (b) where not otherwise prohibited by federal, state or local law (i) from an individual to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector; and (ii) from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to an individual.

Firearms (including handguns) may be shipped only through a UPS Scheduled Pickup Account (specifically, Daily Pickup, Daily On-Route Pickup, UPS Smart Pickup®, and Day-Specific Pickup), or through a UPS Customer Center (counters at UPS operational facilities).


To claim that I did not follow their tariffs is beyond me. Beretta, a multimillion dollar corporation with more lawyers on retainer than you can imagine are far more knowledgeable about this topic than you are. To imply that they are illegally shipping and receiving handguns through UPS is ridiculous. Even reading UPS's shipping policies clearly states everything I and Beretta have done falls well within their guidelines. You clearly don't have a grasp on this whole thing as well as you think you do.

Beretta set up the pickup for me with UPS, UPS states that they accept firearms. As you put it, END OF STORY.

Now I see what JohnKSa was talking about with your comments being oblique, not only that but you are extremely stubborn to the point that it's not even worth arguing this topic further with you. Like Johnska also said, seeing as we seem to not be speaking the same language, I am also going to bow out.

.

[dogtown tom]

Dragline45

To claim that I did not follow their tariffs is beyond me.

1. Read the UPS policy above that you claim you didn't violate.
2. You don't have a UPS Scheduled Pickup Account do you?
3. Beretta isn't UPS and doesn't dictate UPS tariffs.
4. You didn't adhere to the very policy you quoted above.

Beretta, a multimillion dollar corporation with more lawyers on retainer than you can imagine are far more knowledgeable about this topic than you are. To imply that they are illegally shipping and receiving handguns through UPS is ridiculous.

I never said what you (or Beretta) did was illegal, only that doing so violates UPS tariffs and policy.

Even reading UPS's shipping policies clearly states everything I and Beretta have done falls well within their guidelines. You clearly don't have a grasp on this whole thing as well as you think you do.

I don't know if English is your native language or if its a comprehension problem. If you read the following passage from the UPS tariff (that both of us have posted several times) and answer which option you chose:

Firearms (including handguns) may be shipped only through a UPS Scheduled Pickup Account (specifically, Daily Pickup, Daily On-Route Pickup, UPS Smart Pickup®, and Day-Specific Pickup), or through a UPS Customer Center (counters at UPS operational facilities).

Do you have a UPS Scheduled Pickup Account?
UPS then SPECIFICALLY describes which types of SPA's are included. If you don't have a UPS Scheduled Pickup Account then your only other option is through a UPS Customer Service Center.

Beretta set up the pickup for me with UPS, UPS states that they accept firearms. As you put it, END OF STORY.

Whether Beretta scheduled your pickup is immaterial. You didn't follow either of the only two options available under UPS tariff. Further Beretta violated UPS tariff by using UPS Returns for the label they sent you (do ya see a pattern here?)

Here's the UPS Firearms page in its entirety. I'll bold text the parts that you and Beretta violated and add my comments in red.
http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/res...ch_phr=handgun

Shipping Firearms or Ammunition
Shipping Firearms or Ammunition



Special Procedures for Shipping Firearms
UPS accepts packages containing firearms (as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code) for transportation only (a) between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors (as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code), and government agencies and (b) where not otherwise prohibited by federal, state or local law (i) from an individual to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector; and (ii) from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to an individual.

The shipper must comply with and must ensure that each shipment containing firearms complies with all federal, state and local laws applicable to the shipper, recipient, and package, including, without limitation, age restrictions.




Use These UPS Services for Your Firearm Shipment
Handguns, as defined by 18 U.S.C. § 921, will be accepted for transportation only via UPS Next Day Air Services, specifically, UPS Next Day Air® Early A.M.®, UPS Next Day Air®, and UPS Next Day Air Saver®. (Note: UPS Express CriticalSM Service is not available for firearms).

UPS accepts firearm parts for shipment, provided the part is not a "firearm" as defined under federal law; the contents of the package cannot be assembled to form a firearm; and the package otherwise complies with federal, state, and local law. (Note: Receivers or frames of a firearm are considered "firearms" and are accepted for transportation only if shipped in accordance with UPS's requirements for shipping firearms; firearm mufflers and silencers are not accepted for transportation.)

UPS does not accept automatic weapons, including machine guns, for shipment. Firearms (including handguns) and firearm parts are not accepted for shipment internationally. UPS Returns® Services are not available for packages containing firearms. Any argument here? From the looks of the Beretta notice they used UPS Returns.




Packing and Labeling Requirements for Firearms
All firearms must be shipped in new corrugated packaging which meets the UPS Single Wall Box Strength Guidelines.

All firearms are to be packaged in accordance with UPS Packaging Guideline Specifications. Ammunition must be shipped separately from packages that contain firearms (including handguns).

Packages containing handguns must be separated from other packages tendered to UPS for delivery.

The shipper must use Delivery Confirmation Adult Signature Required service for each package containing a firearm, including a handgun, and affix a UPS label requesting an adult signature upon delivery.

The labeling and outer box markings on all firearms shipments should not identify the contents as containing a firearm. Labeling, including the shipper's and consignee's abbreviated names on the shipping label or air shipping document, must be non-descriptive.




Getting Your Firearm Shipment to UPS
Firearms (including handguns) may be shipped only through a UPS Scheduled Pickup Account (specifically, Daily Pickup, Daily On-Route Pickup, UPS Smart Pickup®, and Day-Specific Pickup), Do you have such an account with UPS? If not you can't use this service. or through a UPS Customer Center (counters at UPS operational facilities). Note: Firearms (including handguns) are not accepted for shipment via UPS Drop Boxes, UPS On-Call Pickup®, or at locations of The UPS Store® or any third party retailer.


When you are shipping a package that contains a handgun, you must verbally notify the UPS driver or UPS Customer Center clerk.

See the UPS Tariff/Terms and Conditions of Service - United States for information regarding firearm and ammunition shipments.

Yeah I'm stubborn.

[Frank Ettin]

Enough bickering. This thread is now closed.

It contains valuable information, but no further discussion is really necessary.