My new BP Hand Cannon

[Beagle333]

I got this thing today. It's a handgonne, or hand cannon. It is possibly the oldest type of portable firearm. This one is supposedly .54 caliber. Or that's what size balls came with it. The touch hole is a bit tricky to me. I have never had a flinter, so I'm not too sure what do do about this. According to my best attempt at measurements with my micrometer, the touch hole is about .063 in diameter. It came with some .072 fuse, which will not go into the hole, of course. I'm not even sure it was ever used, or that's just what the guy had lying around and sent it anyway. Perhaps I could just drizzle some 4F on top of the hole and light that. I'm not really sure. Usually the butt end of it would be fitted onto a short pole or piece of bamboo and it would somehow be lit by a bit of burning wick dabbed at the hole while really concentrating on aiming.

If anybody has any experience with small cannons or large bp rifles with a similar size touch hole..... feel free to offer advice. I'm gonna do some more research before I touch it off, but it sure looks like loads of fun! 'Probably not too good for CAS shooting... but I think it was used more by the cowboys of the early 14th century.

[Beagle333]

Perhaps it was used like this.

[maillemaker]

Medieval handgonnes usually had a wooden stock. Not like a modern rifle, but more like a shovel handle sticking out the back of the barrel. You'd lay it over your shoulder or under your armpit. Often they would have hooks that could be hooked over a rampart.

They would be touched off with a slow match.

Your handgonne appears to be a modern intepretation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD6SbAzdvc8

Steve

[Beagle333]

So I would just pour a little pile of 4F on top of that hole and light that?
(thanks for the video)

Hmmmm..... looking around some.... 1.5mm (.059") fuse is available cheap, as well. This might be fun! I do think I'd rather be hiding behind a tree some distance away, the first dozen times I touch 'er off.

[4V50 Gary]

It's supposed to be on a staff. It can have a point on the end to shove into the ground and turn it around to face oncoming cavalry. Mebbe the Queen will send the Horse Guards over here? You can be in the forefront to defend the capitol so they don't burn it again.

[Bill Akins]

Beagle333 wrote:
So I would just pour a little pile of 4F on top of that hole and light that?

I'd say you'd be safe in doing that or even using 3F Beagle. The other options you have are getting a smaller diameter fuse, or drilling out the touch hole to accept the larger fuse that was sent with it. But if you drill out the touch hole to a larger diameter, you'll lose a little more pressure coming out the touch hole when it goes off. I'd just use a smaller diameter fuse if it was me. Looks like a fun piece to play around with. Be safe and have fun with it.



.

[9mmfan]

That's pretty nifty.

You really gotta say something snarky, then light off the touch hole with a cigarillo. Just once. Sorry to be silly, it's a slow day around the house.

[Pahoo]

Beagle333,
This is going to sound funny but is the touch hole, .063 in diameter all the way to the main chamber? Many fused cannons are not. This allows you to have a good burning fuse to the restricted vent and that way, dump the spark on top of the main charge. Somewhat like a nipple; Large entry, small vent. ..

Now, as far as where that barrel came from, I haven't a clue. I worked in an industrial plant and found many round stock parts that could be bored out and deeper and easily turned into a cannon. I did just that, on many occasion's but did install trunnions. Might add that all the barrels I made or machined, had restricted fuse-holes, at the bottom. Can you show us a picture of the rear end-cop. ...

Be Safe !!!

[Beagle333]

Well.... here's a couple with a paper clip through the hole. 'Best I can tell, she's the same diameter. 'Just from looking down through it and poking a small drill bit in there.




And here's a couple looking down through the touch hole toward the bore light.



And here's a couple of the breech end. It is hollow inside with a threaded hole. The hole doesn't go all the way to the knurled section, so the "breech plug" would still be over an inch thick. But it looks like somebody had it mounted in a 2" pipe at one time, by the marks on the outside of the body.

[Beagle333]

It has a big "1 7/8" stampeded on the muzzle end (see first photos).
I guess that was the original steel size before turning. I didn't slug the barrel, but a .540 ball will just barely roll down in there and back out with a good bit of shaking/tapping. If I were to use a .530 ball, it would probably need a patch.

[Old Stony]

I think I'd be tempted to turn out a hardwood stick to attach to the base and use a fuse.

[Pahoo]

I think I'd be tempted to turn out a hardwood stick to attach to the base and use a fuse.

Same here and would be period correct for the Chinese Hand-Cannons. You could put a long staff and although I forget the spelling, It was referred to as Lintle stock or a shorter pistol grip stock. The longer stock would keep you further away, from the muzzle as a safety measure. At any rate, I'd be having lots of fun with this one. ......

Be Safe !!!

[MattShlock]

I shoot such all the time. I'd really like to know what kind of steel it is! Other than that treat it like a hand gun. Dribble a little 4f into the touch hole. Light it with a linstock and slowmatch if you want to be modern. A hot wire pick from a brazier if not. You put a wood tiller in the back. Might have had a machine/wood screw in the back once.

Good luck.

PS: knurling is not period.

[Beagle333]

I'd really like to know what kind of steel it is!

Me too. It's definitely steel and it's really thick, but I'm still a little scared of the thing. It's gonna go off closer to me than I want, no matter how I hold it.

PS: knurling is not period.

I'm bettin' you're right on that. I won it in an auction and it was really just to support the cause.... but the win came with a cannon.

I'll probably sell it without ever firing a shot. I just got a Winchester '94 yesterday and it looks like it's going to be much more fun to restore and shoot.

[Bill Akins]

Beagle333 wrote:
Me too. It's definitely steel and it's really thick, but I'm still a little scared of the thing. It's gonna go off closer to me than I want, no matter how I hold it.

You can overcome that Beagle. The same way the ancients did when they went forward from a hand cannon to the matchlock. All you have to do is to make yourself a serpentine (cock or hammer) that will hold a slow burning "match" that you can make from potassium nitrate impregnated cord, that will smolder slowly, and then attach a bellcrank fo the serpentine and attach a cord to the bellcrank, so that you can hold the pole out and just pull on the cord to lower the serpentine so its smouldering "match" will ignite the touch hole.


.

[MattShlock]

This is what he means. You can bang one out from flat stock -- that's what The Rifle Shoppe would sell ya.

[indy1919]

MattShlock... Please some detail on the lower handgonne.. It has the look...

And Beagle... For Gods sake shoot it please, even with a blank load & fuse at least, Just treat it like a cannon, lit it and run like hell... But shoot it once... Please do it for me. I really want to know if it shoots!!!!!!. And I love the knurling... It gives it a certain industrial quality

[4V50 Gary]

I need to make one for myself.

[indy1919]

The serpentine gonne shoots 75 cal balls..

The handgonne on the stick shoots 3 oz sinkers... This one is really heavy, but I got a very heavy poll for it and it really makes it easy to point and shoot...


I was hitting 2 liter bottles at 30 yards.. with out much effort

Now with in reason the farther you can get the Handgonne out in front of you the easier it was to aim... Also I use a slow match on a stick to light that one

[Beagle333]

Just treat it like a cannon, lit it and run like hell... But shoot it once

I may have to do that.... Rain predicted for next 4 days in AL, but I'll try to find a break in it and work.

I didn't realize there were other shooters of the hand gonne. We shoulda started a thread in BP section long ago for folks to post pics of theirs.
Maybe when I get it working, I'll try to get a good shot and start one.

[MattShlock]

Indy;
That picture is of two reproductions of The Tannenberg Gun, the oldest specifically dated gun (1399, tho it is older) in western civilization. The top is a brass approximization. The bottom is a German-made museum quality true copy of it in bronze. Yes, they're real. Below is a pic of the original in the museum...

[indy1919]

I was not aware of this gun... The aged copy is beautiful.. Googled it & found some of the history of the piece... Again thanks for sharing...


Also came across a way for Beagle333 to test his with out lighting the fuze & running

http://www.handgonne.com/tann2.html

[Beagle333]

Update to this, the slowest CAS shooter out there is still gathering equipment.
I guesstimated that this thing was threaded with a 5/16 hole and so I got a bolt from Lowes.... wouldn't thread in..., So I got a metric equivalent next time I was at Lowes..... no dice. So last night I got a 5/16-24 fine threaded bolt and it fits perfectly. And I bought a post hold digger handle that is just a tad bigger than the hole in the back. With just a little turning down, this should fit into there. I'm thinking I can drill out the end of the wooden handle to accomodate the bolt shank (cut the head off), JB-Weld it into the wood, and then have a 3 or 4' handle on the handgonne. Now to start thinking about one of those string/trigger fuse-holding devices to attach. I also bought a long skinny machine bolt to go through the handle as a hinge and a couple of short hobby springs.

[brazosdave]

Very cool! Please post us an update when ya get around to shootin it!

[zxcvbob]

Have you fired it yet?

I made something like that many years ago from a replacement shotgun barrel that I bought from Dixie Gunworks. 16 gauge, I think. Sawed it off to about 10 or 12 inches, and put a breech plug in it. (I'm not saying this was safe, but I thought it was at the time) Used it to fire blanks with about 70 to 100 grains of FFF blackpowder and a fiber shotgun wad. The noise and the fire was most impressive. I should have built a little carriage for it.