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Old November 30, 2013, 06:39 PM   #26
mehavey
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I don't even want to think of 150gr FFF behind a 400-450gr bullet.
My 45-3¼ with 100g/1Fg behind a 550PP is bad enough.
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Old November 30, 2013, 08:17 PM   #27
Boomer58cal
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I've been shooting that load since I was 9 years old.

I run 120g FFF under a 900g bullet in my .62.

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Old November 30, 2013, 08:39 PM   #28
mehavey
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I'm speechless.
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Old November 30, 2013, 08:47 PM   #29
Boomer58cal
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Pic of 900 grain bullet -->http://TheFiringLine.com/forums/atta...0&d=1361936719Left to Right.......44 magforscale, .619 900 gn. 440 gn. .575, 150 gn. .308, 53 gn. .223 V-max

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Old November 30, 2013, 11:56 PM   #30
chickenmcnasty
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.58 muzzleloader questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomer58cal View Post
Back in the hay day of minie balls and conicals they used to shoot what was called a 40 Rod gun. They would target shoot at 40 rods/220yards, but would often shoot as far as 100 rods/550 yards. Their records are all sub-MOA, even at 550 yards. Yes these were benched rifles, but this shows you how accurate muzzleloaders can be.

Let's compare the ballistics of my .50 and. 58 caplocks, both shooting bullets out of 32" barrels with 150g charge of FFF.


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You use a 150 grain charge with the 50? I think the max charge for my hawken was 100g as listed in the manual. I wouldn't mind the extra recoil if it meant better trajectory/accuracy, but I also am leery of going above that.
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Old December 1, 2013, 01:52 PM   #31
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The max powder charge depends upon the manufacture of your barrel. My CVA Hawken hunter and mountain rifles are generally rated for 100-120 FFF depending on calibre. CVA barrels were tested from the factory with 500 grains triple F and double balled.

My "Oregon barrel" Custom made barrels( Made by their original barrel maker who has sadly passed on ) are rated for 250g FFF. my .50/.58 barrels are 11/8" flat to flat and my. 62 is 13/8" flat to flat. You would have to try to blow these barrels up. They are tested with a 500g charge FFF and two RB's over another 500g charge and two more RB. Essentially if you fill the entire barrel full of powder instead of making a bomb you just make a rocket.

Here's a bit of history... the machines at Oregon barrel are the very same machines that made Lee Enfield 30-06 barrels during World War 2.

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Old December 1, 2013, 02:53 PM   #32
mehavey
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I must have misunderstood.
Did you say the 50/58 barrel was (effectively) 1¼" (11/8) flat-to-flat?

If so, the 32" barrel alone weighs 63lbs?
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Old December 1, 2013, 03:09 PM   #33
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Boomer,

Are these bench guns you're referring to?
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Old December 1, 2013, 03:56 PM   #34
Boomer58cal
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Quote:
I must have misunderstood. Did you say the 50/58 barrel was (effectively) 1¼" (11/8) flat-to-flat?

If so, the 32" barrel alone weighs 63lbs?
Ok. Both my .50 & .58 cal barrels are 1&1/8 in. thick flat to flat on the Octagon. My .62 cal barrel is 1&3/8 in. thick flat to flat.

CVA .50 and .58 barrels are only 15/16's in. thick flat to flot.

My CVA's weigh about 8 lbs and my custom builds are between 9 and 15 lbs depending on barrel length. I have barrels ranging from 24-42 inches. Weight and recoil are not much of an issue for me since I'm 6'4" 280ish lbs and have been packing a .58 since I was 9 years old.

Quote:
Are these bench guns you're referring to?
No. Oregon Barrel makes bench gun barrels that are 2.5-3.0 inches in dia. Their target barrels are round instead of octagon. Those barrels weigh a good two or three times what my barrels weigh.

I shot one of their two bores that weighed around 100 pounds. What a beast!

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Old December 1, 2013, 04:49 PM   #35
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Quote:
CVA .50 and .58 barrels are only 15/16's in. thick flat to flot.
I beg to differ, the .54 and .58 CVA's are 1 inch across the flats.
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Old December 1, 2013, 05:06 PM   #36
Boomer58cal
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I could be off a hair on the CVA .58, I can't remember off hand, but I know the .50 cals are 15/16. I'll recheck my .58's when I get a chance.

I've never had a .54.

All I was saying was my custom "Oregon barrel" barrels are significantly thicker than my CVA's. I don't think black powder has enough energy to blow one up, even if you tried, short of welding a plug in the end of the barrel anyway.

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Old December 1, 2013, 06:17 PM   #37
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Just a lil history that has no bearing on the subject. Original Hawken barrels were 1 1/8 with some being 1 1/4 at the breech tapering down to an inch at the muzzle. Some Hawken barrels were straight but most were tapered. My NOS .54 CVA/Douglas barrel on my Hawken is 1 inch.
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Old December 2, 2013, 05:17 PM   #38
chickenmcnasty
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.58 muzzleloader questions

I noticed my cabelas has the pedersoli 2 band enfield for $799. I generally get a few hundred bucks in gift cards for Christmas, so I'm really taking a hard look at this rifle.
It appears to be a 1:48. Does anyone have experience with this particular model? Any insight would be great as that is a lot of money for me at the moment.
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Old December 2, 2013, 07:52 PM   #39
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If you are even considering 150-200 yards, do not invest in a Enfield/Springfield-design musket. That type of [hunting] use was never their intent, notwithstanding whatever ladder sights they may have on [the Enfield].
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Old December 2, 2013, 08:23 PM   #40
Hawg Haggen
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Quote:
If you are even considering 150-200 yards, do not invest in a Enfield/Springfield-design musket. That type of [hunting] use was never their intent, notwithstanding whatever ladder sights they may have on [the Enfield].
Are you saying they're not accurate enough? If so that's B.S. You do have to learn the gun but they're plenty capable of 200 yard minute of deer accuracy.
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Old December 2, 2013, 08:49 PM   #41
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Yea, in musket competition at Friendship we shoot 200 yds. I shot it there
using round ball and did pretty good.
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Old December 2, 2013, 09:24 PM   #42
mehavey
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Excuse me gentlemen but I've skirmished for many a year. I am well aware of
what civil war military rifled muskets can, and cannot do in the field. Setting
up for fixed/known-range target shooting -- vs hunting at indeterminate ranges
past 125 yards w/ instantaneous calculation for football trajectory for a single
shot -- is a totally different ball of wax.

My counsel is not to do it.
In the end, however, the OP may do he desires.

Last edited by mehavey; December 2, 2013 at 09:35 PM.
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Old December 2, 2013, 10:22 PM   #43
chickenmcnasty
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.58 muzzleloader questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by mehavey View Post
Excuse me gentlemen but I've skirmished for many a year. I am well aware of
what civil war military rifled muskets can, and cannot do in the field. Setting
up for fixed/known-range target shooting -- vs hunting at indeterminate ranges
past 125 yards w/ instantaneous calculation for football trajectory for a single
shot -- is a totally different ball of wax.

My counsel is not to do it.
In the end, however, the OP may do he desires.
Generally I make up a card that lists my bullet drop at different yardages and keep it on my person until it is ingrained in memory. I always use a rangefinder prior to making a shot. Adjusting for different holds at various yardage is something I do frequently. I use it for long range shooting as well as traditional bow hunting.
I respect your opinion and your experience in the matter, but you are unaware of my obsessive nature. I tend to practice for long hours in honing a skill I want to perfect, and if I feel that I can't take an ethical shot, I will always let a deer walk.
I'm really seeking opinions as to what the caliber/guns can accomplish given certain types of bullet/ball. In the end I will always take to heart the opinions of those that have more experience than myself. I really value your insight and opinions, but going down the road of hunting ethics can be a very slippery slope.
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Old December 2, 2013, 10:59 PM   #44
mehavey
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Quote:
...obsessive nature...
Then you & I are kindred spirits.
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Old December 3, 2013, 07:41 AM   #45
chickenmcnasty
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.58 muzzleloader questions

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Originally Posted by mehavey View Post
Then you & I are kindred spirits.
That's awesome to hear! It drives my wife bonkers, but she has come to realize it's much better for me to have hobbies like this as opposed to drinking and other less noble pursuits.
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Old December 3, 2013, 08:09 PM   #46
chickenmcnasty
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.58 muzzleloader questions

Does anyone own one if the pedersoli 2 band 1858 enfields? It keeps calling my name from the rack!
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Old December 9, 2013, 02:28 PM   #47
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Any opinions on the lymen trade rifle? It doesn't seem as fancy as their Great Plains rifle but it's also significantly cheaper.
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