Open carry legal- Does "printing" matter?

JGON · July 5, 2011, 10:16 PM

Hi all,

My apologies if this has been discussed already, I could not turn much info up in a search.

CC is just becoming legal here in WI, so I have been putting much thought into my carry setup from holsters, belts, guns, clothing, etc.

I have one big question for you all...

If open carry is legal here in WI, is printing such a big deal? From both a legal AND a tactical standpoint, what are your thoughts on this?

I don't want anyone alarmed, and I don't want any bad guys knowing I'm armed, so it IS my intention to keep the gun concealed. I'm curious what you all are going to say though...

Thanks much,

JGON

kozak6 · July 5, 2011, 10:38 PM

Open carry is open carry and concealed carry is concealed carry.

If you are going to do either, then you should make an effort to do it right.

dreamweaver · July 5, 2011, 10:57 PM

i can tell you what it's like here in kansas, but best to check with the local LEO's to see what is tolerated.
here in kansas:
open carry is considered enough of the gun is exposed so that it is obviously a gun to the general public. so, a colt saa in a cowboy rig is ok. but so is a PM9 in an owb holster.
but so is a PM9 in in an iwb that is not covered and is "obviously a gun.
there's the problem for open carry here; different jurisdictions have different opinions on what constitutes "obviously" a gun. i've been asked about what i thought was open carry and le thought was bordering on concealed.
they are pretty clear about concealed carry. if the gun is concealed it cannot be identified by the general populace as a gun. at least that is how it was explained to me by le.
so, the only way to be safe, legally, is get you concealed permit and be obvious when you open carry and secretive when you conceal.
jmho

irish52084 · July 5, 2011, 11:30 PM

It varies state tot state. In Washington, printing is a non issue. We have legal open and concealed carry. Open carry is also a bit more accepted here than a lot of other places, some very good people put in a lot of time and effort to make this so.

For me I generally use open carry to make carrying a gun more comfortable. When I first got my CC permit I worried about printing, but since learning my state laws, I don't worry about printing and it sure makes it easier on me to carry.

armoredman · July 5, 2011, 11:38 PM

I live in a Constitutional Carry state, and I worry about printing - the object of carrying concealed is that nobody sees the sidearm. Printing negates this plan. Ergo, figure out how not to print.

BGutzman · July 6, 2011, 06:25 AM

Here in Minnesota if you have a CCW permit you can carry either way and if your printing its not legally a big deal.

Coyote WT · July 6, 2011, 07:26 AM

My "conceal" is a shirt over my owb Ruger P95. I too live in WA state which seems to be pretty easy for open carry although I have no other states to compare it to.

When I conceal, it's not so much to tactical reasons. Actually, my mind set is that I want the bad guy to see my gun, think I am an off duty LEO who is deadly accurate at 1000 yards with a BB gun (in the snake world there are some snakes that LOOK like rattle snakes and that does the job just as well as actually BEING a rattle snake more often than not). Like many things in my life, I keep a general cover on my pistol to keep from freaking out the muggles.

Jim March · July 6, 2011, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Open carry is open carry and concealed carry is concealed carry.

If you are going to do either, then you should make an effort to do it right.

I actually disagree. There's something I call "98% concealed". In my case this means a big gun carried high-and-forward crossdraw, covered by a normal-length jacket but once in a while "peeks out" unavoidably. In AZ with the same legal rules as a Wisconsin permitholder (open or concealed is OK) there's no problem - and trust me, most people don't notice.

Now, there's one major issue and that's "grab resistance" - if you're carrying open or quasi-concealed behind the hip, you've created a grab-magnet and that's no good. Somewhere up into your belly area is much easier to cover and strongly resists grab attempts from the rear, and makes side-attacks hard. Frontal attacks are easier to spot coming. My response to a grab attempt would be to jam the gun into the holster with my off-hand while going for a decent size aluminum flashlight fast-accessible in the right, which is getting jammed into their face edge-first at very high speed

.

BerettaBuckeye · July 6, 2011, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim March

I actually disagree. There's something I call "98% concealed

Here in Ohio we mostly call that "sloppy carry". Concealed, open....whatever. I personally like my concealed pistol to stay concealed but it is nice to know that if my shirt rides up or the pistol prints through it's all good. I totally agree with you about open carry/ gun security though, that's one of the main reasons open carry isn't for me. To each his/her own though

Crazy88Fingers · July 6, 2011, 10:09 PM

The first thing you need to realize is that you are not the center of everyone's universe. If your gun faintly prints from time to time, the average person isn't going to notice a little bulge. And if they do, I really doubt they'll deduce you're carrying a gun.

I'm a skinny guy with a Charter Bulldog tucked in my waistband. The "athletic fit" shirts I wore before I started carrying do a fine job of covering it. And I need to get myself in a pretty awkward position for anyone else to notice it. Heck, people have actually touched it (hugs and whatnot) and didn't seem to notice.

So don't worry too much. Just keep it out of plain sight and cut down on the cartwheels at the grocery store.

irish52084 · July 7, 2011, 11:32 AM

Crazy88Fingers, you said it well. Even with open carry, very few people even notice the gun. It's a bit surprising, at least it was to me, how oblivious people are to what's on your waist line. That black gun tends to get filed in their minds as a cell phone or other gadget.

Kevin Rohrer · July 7, 2011, 12:18 PM

If you carry open, carry open for all to see.

"Printing" in concealed carry is considered tacky, like slurping your soup. If you want to hide your weapon, then hide it completely.

egor20 · July 7, 2011, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Kevin Rohrer

If you carry open, carry open for all to see.

"Printing" in concealed carry

+1

Get a few really ugly Hawaiian shirts, it works for me, and no "printing issues" with CCW.

irish52084 · July 7, 2011, 01:26 PM

If I gave a damn about looking "tacky", I'm carrying a gun for the wrong reasons. I carry to protect myself and my family, not to be "cool". That notion is ridiculous to me.

I carry larger guns, because they are easier for me to use. I gave up on small sub-compact guns a while ago and I'm not going back. My reasoning is simple, capacity and ease of use beat less capacity and harder to use. If someone sees a bulge underneath my T-shirt, good for them, they can speculate what it as all they want. When I carry open, I don't spend all day tucking my coat in behind my holster just so everyone can see it. Why would I do the opposite and wear multiple shirts , vests etc... when concealing. I can do both in my state, which may or may not be the case for others, but for me I don't care that much about printing.

The only places I worry about printing are in places I deem to be sensitive or absolutely not approving of a gun being there. In most of those places I won't carry, but if I feel the need to I carry with a bit more discretion.

booker_t · July 7, 2011, 04:26 PM

Generally, printing is going to raise eyebrows, moreso than open carry. A cop who sees you printing will most likely challenge you to produce your carry permit. Their approach and tactics may vary. Not all cops will be aware of the new law, or the exact specifics, which will make your life even more... exciting.

If you're going to carry concealed, I say carry concealed. Adjust your gun, holster, and dress to ensure it stays concealed.

C0untZer0 · July 7, 2011, 04:36 PM

I would like to be able to open carry but I was making some assumptions about things being cool and people being cool, and people aren't.

You've got these horses-asses who walk up on an officer's traffic stop wearing a sidearm, you've got these guys wearing bandeleros and all sorts of crazy ****, and you've got people that just freak out. And then you've got those sherrifs or police chiefs who decide they're gonna make life hell for people who OC.

If I could OC I wouldn't need such a small & light pistol, I wouldn't have to worry about concealing.

I always thought that police would favor OC over CC because at least an officer has some knowledge of who is armed versus not having any information. But it doesn't seem that way...

Stevie-Ray · July 7, 2011, 05:43 PM

Quote:

For me I generally use open carry to make carrying a gun more comfortable. When I first got my CC permit I worried about printing, but since learning my state laws, I don't worry about printing and it sure makes it easier on me to carry.

I feel about the same here in the Great Lake State.

Cindyann · July 7, 2011, 05:49 PM

I am in GA and you can carry openly or concealed as long as you have a permit. I personally always carry concealed and make an effort not to wear shirts that are going to print. My husband carries a larger gun and it varies whether he carries openly or concealed depending on where we are going, but some of his shirts definitely print more than others.

Mobuck · July 9, 2011, 07:18 AM

I usually carry a fairly large pistol in a belt holster and I'm not too big so it's not all that concealed. I wear a cover vest which some say is too obvious but it does the job and I like the extra pockets. If it shows, so be it. I've found most folks don't pay much attention and regardless of what you might think, they don't look at you all that much.

Skadoosh · July 9, 2011, 07:40 AM

Quote:

If you are going to do either, then you should make an effort to do it right.

That doesn't really answer the question.

No, it doesn't matter.

PawPaw · July 9, 2011, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish52084

Even with open carry, very few people even notice the gun. It's a bit surprising, at least it was to me, how oblivious people are

Ain't that the truth!

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGON

I don't want anyone alarmed, and I don't want any bad guys knowing I'm armed, so it IS my intention to keep the gun concealed.

If that's your intention, then you'll be all right. However, it is amazing that most people are totally oblivious to things going on around them. I'm guilty of that too, but my attention is often focused on a person's hands rather than their face. I've gotten grief for not speaking to people I know in public, but that's because I don't generally focus on faces until I've mentally cleared their hands.

What will really amaze you is that after you've been carrying for a while, you will forget it's there. It becomes a non-issue, just another piece of paraphernalia, like a pocket knife or a wristwatch. You won't notice it and no one else will either.

ConlawBloganon · July 9, 2011, 08:11 AM

In my state, open carry and concealed carry are legal, as is anything in between. I like to carry a large gun (5" 1911), since I shoot it better than anything, so most often I carry with a modest CCW. Won't pass the "walmart walk," but it's concealed enough to keep a low profile and not attract attention.

Silverado · July 9, 2011, 11:19 PM

I recently took a refresher CCW course here in Colorado and the open carry vs. concealed carry came up. In this state, open or conceal carry is OK if you have a CCW permit, except for open carry in a very few number of towns... The instructor for the course implored us to "please don't open carry, whenever a person decides to open carry in public, 911 gets dozens of calls. Conceal and give emergency services a break."

It is weird sometimes what people don't notice. I was walking into a grocery store last winter and real doors are not at the store any more, just large openings where there is an air blade keeping heat indoors and cold outdoors (or vice / versa in the summer). My cover shirt was not buttoned all the way and when I walked through that wall of air my shirt blew up exposing the gun on my right hip to at least a dozen shoppers coming or going. I was horrified, but oddly, no one seemed to notice anything. Printing, shrimping, I really don't think many people would know. I suppose an LEO might if there was some reason for him or her to single you out...

irish52084 · July 9, 2011, 11:47 PM

I thought I should throw this out there just in case there might be some confusion between printing and brandishing. Generally speaking, varies state to state, your pistol accidentally printing or showing for a second or two is not going to get you in trouble. What can get you in trouble is brandishing or showing the weapon with intent to intimidate or cause harm. That is kind of the rule of thumb with brandishing, the intent to cause harm or intimidate.

Once again this is a general statement and you need to know your local laws on the subject.

July 5, 2011, 10:16 PM	#1
JGON Member Join Date: June 15, 2011 Location: Southeastern Wisconsin for now Posts: 17	Open carry legal- Does "printing" matter? Hi all, My apologies if this has been discussed already, I could not turn much info up in a search. CC is just becoming legal here in WI, so I have been putting much thought into my carry setup from holsters, belts, guns, clothing, etc. I have one big question for you all... If open carry is legal here in WI, is printing such a big deal? From both a legal AND a tactical standpoint, what are your thoughts on this? I don't want anyone alarmed, and I don't want any bad guys knowing I'm armed, so it IS my intention to keep the gun concealed. I'm curious what you all are going to say though... Thanks much, JGON

July 5, 2011, 10:57 PM	#3
dreamweaver Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Posts: 713	i can tell you what it's like here in kansas, but best to check with the local LEO's to see what is tolerated. here in kansas: open carry is considered enough of the gun is exposed so that it is obviously a gun to the general public. so, a colt saa in a cowboy rig is ok. but so is a PM9 in an owb holster. but so is a PM9 in in an iwb that is not covered and is "obviously a gun. there's the problem for open carry here; different jurisdictions have different opinions on what constitutes "obviously" a gun. i've been asked about what i thought was open carry and le thought was bordering on concealed. they are pretty clear about concealed carry. if the gun is concealed it cannot be identified by the general populace as a gun. at least that is how it was explained to me by le. so, the only way to be safe, legally, is get you concealed permit and be obvious when you open carry and secretive when you conceal. jmho __________________ http://takdriver.com/

July 6, 2011, 06:25 AM	#6
BGutzman Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2009 Location: Frozen Tundra Posts: 2,414	Here in Minnesota if you have a CCW permit you can carry either way and if your printing its not legally a big deal. __________________ Molon Labe

July 6, 2011, 07:26 AM	#7
Coyote WT Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2011 Location: Woodinville WA (north of Seattle) Posts: 147	My "conceal" is a shirt over my owb Ruger P95. I too live in WA state which seems to be pretty easy for open carry although I have no other states to compare it to. When I conceal, it's not so much to tactical reasons. Actually, my mind set is that I want the bad guy to see my gun, think I am an off duty LEO who is deadly accurate at 1000 yards with a BB gun (in the snake world there are some snakes that LOOK like rattle snakes and that does the job just as well as actually BEING a rattle snake more often than not). Like many things in my life, I keep a general cover on my pistol to keep from freaking out the muggles. __________________ Coyote WalkingTall 91/30 Mosin Nagant, P95 Ruger M&P S&W .38, Savage 111 30.06 Springfield XD .45

July 6, 2011, 10:09 PM	#10
Crazy88Fingers Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2010 Location: WesTex Posts: 958	The first thing you need to realize is that you are not the center of everyone's universe. If your gun faintly prints from time to time, the average person isn't going to notice a little bulge. And if they do, I really doubt they'll deduce you're carrying a gun. I'm a skinny guy with a Charter Bulldog tucked in my waistband. The "athletic fit" shirts I wore before I started carrying do a fine job of covering it. And I need to get myself in a pretty awkward position for anyone else to notice it. Heck, people have actually touched it (hugs and whatnot) and didn't seem to notice. So don't worry too much. Just keep it out of plain sight and cut down on the cartwheels at the grocery store. __________________ "And I'm tellin' you son, well it ain't no fun, staring straight down a .44" -Lynyrd Skynyrd

July 5, 2011, 10:38 PM	#2
kozak6 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2005 Location: AZ Posts: 3,113	Open carry is open carry and concealed carry is concealed carry. If you are going to do either, then you should make an effort to do it right.

July 5, 2011, 11:30 PM	#4
irish52084 Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2011 Location: Washington, the state, not that "other" one. Posts: 514	It varies state tot state. In Washington, printing is a non issue. We have legal open and concealed carry. Open carry is also a bit more accepted here than a lot of other places, some very good people put in a lot of time and effort to make this so. For me I generally use open carry to make carrying a gun more comfortable. When I first got my CC permit I worried about printing, but since learning my state laws, I don't worry about printing and it sure makes it easier on me to carry.

July 5, 2011, 11:38 PM	#5
armoredman Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 5,297	I live in a Constitutional Carry state, and I worry about printing - the object of carrying concealed is that nobody sees the sidearm. Printing negates this plan. Ergo, figure out how not to print.

July 7, 2011, 11:32 AM	#11
irish52084 Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2011 Location: Washington, the state, not that "other" one. Posts: 514	Crazy88Fingers, you said it well. Even with open carry, very few people even notice the gun. It's a bit surprising, at least it was to me, how oblivious people are to what's on your waist line. That black gun tends to get filed in their minds as a cell phone or other gadget.

July 7, 2011, 12:18 PM	#12
Kevin Rohrer Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2010 Location: Medina, Ohio Posts: 1,049	If you carry open, carry open for all to see. "Printing" in concealed carry is considered tacky, like slurping your soup. If you want to hide your weapon, then hide it completely. __________________ Member: Orange Gunsite Family, NRA--Life, ARTCA, and American Legion. Caveat Emptor: Cavery Grips/AmericanGripz/Prestige Grips/Stealth Grips from Clayton, NC. He is a scammer

July 7, 2011, 01:26 PM	#14
irish52084 Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2011 Location: Washington, the state, not that "other" one. Posts: 514	If I gave a damn about looking "tacky", I'm carrying a gun for the wrong reasons. I carry to protect myself and my family, not to be "cool". That notion is ridiculous to me. I carry larger guns, because they are easier for me to use. I gave up on small sub-compact guns a while ago and I'm not going back. My reasoning is simple, capacity and ease of use beat less capacity and harder to use. If someone sees a bulge underneath my T-shirt, good for them, they can speculate what it as all they want. When I carry open, I don't spend all day tucking my coat in behind my holster just so everyone can see it. Why would I do the opposite and wear multiple shirts , vests etc... when concealing. I can do both in my state, which may or may not be the case for others, but for me I don't care that much about printing. The only places I worry about printing are in places I deem to be sensitive or absolutely not approving of a gun being there. In most of those places I won't carry, but if I feel the need to I carry with a bit more discretion.

July 7, 2011, 04:26 PM	#15
booker_t Senior Member Join Date: July 21, 2009 Posts: 797	Generally, printing is going to raise eyebrows, moreso than open carry. A cop who sees you printing will most likely challenge you to produce your carry permit. Their approach and tactics may vary. Not all cops will be aware of the new law, or the exact specifics, which will make your life even more... exciting. If you're going to carry concealed, I say carry concealed. Adjust your gun, holster, and dress to ensure it stays concealed.

July 7, 2011, 04:36 PM	#16
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	I would like to be able to open carry but I was making some assumptions about things being cool and people being cool, and people aren't. You've got these horses-asses who walk up on an officer's traffic stop wearing a sidearm, you've got these guys wearing bandeleros and all sorts of crazy ***, and you've got people that just freak out. And then you've got those sherrifs or police chiefs who decide they're gonna make life hell for people who OC. If I could OC I wouldn't need such a small & light pistol, I wouldn't have to worry about concealing. I always thought that police would favor OC over CC because at least an officer has some* knowledge of who is armed versus not having any information. But it doesn't seem that way...

July 7, 2011, 05:49 PM	#18
Cindyann Member Join Date: August 19, 2010 Posts: 44	I am in GA and you can carry openly or concealed as long as you have a permit. I personally always carry concealed and make an effort not to wear shirts that are going to print. My husband carries a larger gun and it varies whether he carries openly or concealed depending on where we are going, but some of his shirts definitely print more than others. __________________ http://www.gunmerchantaccount.com 2nd Amendment Firearm Credit Card Processing

July 9, 2011, 07:18 AM	#19
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	I usually carry a fairly large pistol in a belt holster and I'm not too big so it's not all that concealed. I wear a cover vest which some say is too obvious but it does the job and I like the extra pockets. If it shows, so be it. I've found most folks don't pay much attention and regardless of what you might think, they don't look at you all that much.

July 9, 2011, 08:11 AM	#22
ConlawBloganon Member Join Date: May 28, 2011 Posts: 47	In my state, open carry and concealed carry are legal, as is anything in between. I like to carry a large gun (5" 1911), since I shoot it better than anything, so most often I carry with a modest CCW. Won't pass the "walmart walk," but it's concealed enough to keep a low profile and not attract attention. __________________ http://www.conlaw-bloganon.blogspot.com

July 9, 2011, 11:19 PM	#23
Silverado Senior Member Join Date: May 14, 2009 Location: Rocky Mountains Posts: 122	I am not a lawyer and I do not play one on TV... I recently took a refresher CCW course here in Colorado and the open carry vs. concealed carry came up. In this state, open or conceal carry is OK if you have a CCW permit, except for open carry in a very few number of towns... The instructor for the course implored us to "please don't open carry, whenever a person decides to open carry in public, 911 gets dozens of calls. Conceal and give emergency services a break." It is weird sometimes what people don't notice. I was walking into a grocery store last winter and real doors are not at the store any more, just large openings where there is an air blade keeping heat indoors and cold outdoors (or vice / versa in the summer). My cover shirt was not buttoned all the way and when I walked through that wall of air my shirt blew up exposing the gun on my right hip to at least a dozen shoppers coming or going. I was horrified, but oddly, no one seemed to notice anything. Printing, shrimping, I really don't think many people would know. I suppose an LEO might if there was some reason for him or her to single you out... __________________ "Today my jurisdiction ends here. Pick up my hat." Sheriff Langsdon

July 9, 2011, 11:47 PM	#24
irish52084 Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2011 Location: Washington, the state, not that "other" one. Posts: 514	I thought I should throw this out there just in case there might be some confusion between printing and brandishing. Generally speaking, varies state to state, your pistol accidentally printing or showing for a second or two is not going to get you in trouble. What can get you in trouble is brandishing or showing the weapon with intent to intimidate or cause harm. That is kind of the rule of thumb with brandishing, the intent to cause harm or intimidate. Once again this is a general statement and you need to know your local laws on the subject.