New Holster Design - proof of concept. Need your input.

[smokiniron]

Hi all...

I'm working on a new holster design to solve a few problems. I'm a left-handed shooter. Some months back, I bought a

Springfield XDS.

As a lefty, I've always found some challenges finding holsters I like for the XDS, and also for my 9mm and .45 ACP
Springfields. I'm especially focused on IWB holsters, since I have a CCW permit.

So, I set about designing a holster that met my requirements.

1. The holster needed to be suspended on my belt. I didn't want the XDS sitting in the bottom of my pocket where it could
get out of position when needed. I also didn't want the wear in the pockets on my WallyWorld cheap-o pants.

2. The holster needed to have a minimal print on the outside. What did show needed to be seen as a phone, iPod, digital
tablet, wallet, or something other than a pistol.

3. The holster strap suspension needed to give the appearance of being a wallet or other benign object hanging from my
belt.

4. Lastly, the holster strap needed to flex enough to accommodate a sitting position.


Here is what I did:

I suspended the holster on a somewhat long strap that a user may adjust to their 'belt-to-pocket' height.

The holster is fitted to the pistol. Further, the holster is asymmetrically shaped so the portion on the outside of your leg is flatter and less pronounced than the portion against your leg.

The front sight on the XDS has a reverse rake, so it grabs nylon holsters. I provided a relief groove to give an unobstructed draw to the XDS.

I glued and stitched the holster to make it durable, solid, and so it would hold it's shape.

I added loops to stabilize to strap.

This holster is a rough 'proof of concept', but I'm thinking about making them for others with XDS pistols and other
pocket-able firearms. Of course, I can make a right-handed version!

The pictures will, hopefully, explain the idea well enough....

Your comments and feedback would be welcome and appreciated!

Thanks,

- Smokiniron

[SgtLumpy]

The pictures will, hopefully, explain the idea well enough....

The pictures. Yes, the pictures.


Sgt Lumpy - n0eq

[smokiniron]

Sgtlumpy...

Sorry re the pictures. I fat-fingered the keyboard before I loaded them. The three-pic limit leaves out about 20 other pictures. But, you'll get the point from the description. I'm off to work, but will be in front of a computer in a few hours. Looking forward to your comments!

- Smokiniron

[Walt Sherrill]

Bear with me, as these commments are more "thinking out loud" than criticism... Videos of you using your holster, after you're finished with and used your prototype may address these points.

That said, I don't really understand what it does a lot BETTER than a well-designed pocket holster.

A good pocket holster doesn't move around that much, or get pushed out of position, and any of them, yours included, will be a pain to use from a sitting position. The main constraint when sitting is that a person's pants fabric makes it difficult to get you hand into the pocket, and that may still be a problem with your design. An IWB holster is far better in that case.

I wonder if the suspending strap could also "bow" out and get in the way when sitting. A video of you using it could show that this concern is not valid. (An afterthought: that strap could be used to PULL the holster out a bit, which could be a plus!!)

I've had a couple of pocket holsters made and used them a good bit, but am generally more at ease and comfortable with IWB holsters. IWB holster have other issues (comfort when sitting) which is less a problem with pocket carry.

[Gaerek]

Just my thoughts:

1. I don't see an advantage over a regular pocket holster. I've used a pocket holster for my LCR for months now, in a variety of different pants/shorts (tight jeans, loose jeans, cargo pants, slacks, suit pants, cargo shorts, etc.) and have never had an issue with shifting. The grip is always where I can get it easily.

2. Different pants/shorts have different pocket lengths, and distances from belt. With a shallow pocket close to the belt line, the suspension strap will buckle and interfere with the draw. With a deep pocket further away from the belt line, the top of the gun/holster could become visible in the top of the pocket. In other words, the strap will need to be adjustable, but without adding too much bulk or extra strap to get in the way.

3. A phone or whatever it is attached to the strap to hide will will get in the way of the draw. In order to get to your gun, you will likely have to manuver around the phone. Going into your pocket will be slower. The gun will also have something additional it could catch on, dangerously stalling your draw. This is all hypothetical, but something to think about.

For me, it boils down to my #1 point. I just don't see the advantage over a regular pocket holster that is more simple, and likely less expensive (my DeSantis Nemesis, I got for around $15, and it works wonderfully). When you add the disadvantages of #2 and #3, I just can't see what makes it better. Let me address your concerns:

1. The holster needed to be suspended on my belt. I didn't want the XDS sitting in the bottom of my pocket where it could
get out of position when needed. I also didn't want the wear in the pockets on my WallyWorld cheap-o pants.

Most pocket holsters are stable and won't move around much. Even if they shift a bit, it's nearly impossible for the grip to get into a position that you won't be able to grab it. What holsters have you used that had this problem?

2. The holster needed to have a minimal print on the outside. What did show needed to be seen as a phone, iPod, digital
tablet, wallet, or something other than a pistol.

This is solved with a regular pocket holster. Something on that strap, as I mentioned above, will more than likely get in the way. Would you plan on adding an actual phone (or iPod, wallet, whatever) holder, to the holster, or would it be a faux object? Keeping in mind that objects outside the belt like that are targets for pick pockets. Also keeping in mind that the faux objects usually looks just like that, faux objects. There was a tuckable holster that I don't know if it's made anymore, but it had a faux pager that looked fake. It drew more attention than anything. (Here's the holster: http://www.pagerpal.com/pager.asp).

3. The holster strap suspension needed to give the appearance of being a wallet or other benign object hanging from my
belt.

See above.

4. Lastly, the holster strap needed to flex enough to accommodate a sitting position.

Pocket holsters are notoriously difficult to draw while seated. Your holster makes it even harder by packing the top of the pocket with a strap that makes it even more difficult.

Now, having said all that, if you have tried some different styles of pocket holders and they don't work for you, and this actually works for you, then by all means. If you go forward, I would stay away from leather, at least for the strap. You'll want something that can flex and move around a bit, plus leather will not be as easy to adjust. Nylon webbing would seem to be a better material.

I'd like to see this thing in action, and maybe a better explanation of the problem it's solving. I haven't had an issue with a pocket holster shifting enough to make it hard to draw, but maybe you have? I don't mean to be negative, but these are just some of the issues I see with this particular holster.

[smokiniron]

That said, I don't really understand what it does a lot BETTER than a well-designed pocket holster.

For me, I really don't like the weight of the gun in my pocket. The weight is still there, but for me, it seems to ride better on my belt. It may be a matter of perception. Time will tell. The genesis was that I can't afford to experiment with 3-4 holsters at $40-60 apiece. And, I like to make stuff!

...

yours included, will be a pain to use from a sitting position. The main constraint when sitting is that a person's pants fabric makes it difficult to get you hand into the pocket, and that may still be a problem with your design.

An IWB holster is far better in that case.
I'm hoping that the firmer shell of my holster will keep the relative 'tightness' of the pants pocket from constraining a draw. Since I'm a fat guy, sometimes I have to squirm around to get in my pocket. This holster seems to help the problem quite a bit....

I wonder if the suspending strap could also "bow" out and get in the way when sitting.

Yes, it bows. But the upper cinch loop can be left a little looser so the strap can rotate some. It bulges, but not much, and doesn't seem to get in the way. I thought about a pivoting hinge point, but thought it was too complicated.

A video of you using it could show that this concern is not valid. (An afterthought: that strap could be used to PULL the holster out a bit, which could be a plus!!)

I'll try to get to this. I'm not of a mind-set to feel the need for quick access (I know that is unwise heresy) but time will likely change my approach.

...

but am generally more at ease and comfortable with IWB holsters. IWB holster have other issues (comfort when sitting) which is less a problem with pocket carry.

I'm with you there. I just don't have the bucks to check too many holsters, only to find I don't like them. The XDS is a good IWB gun, so I may just 'roll my own', since I've seen a few belt clip sources. And, I may just make a belt loop style for the fun of it.

- Smokiniron

[smokiniron]

1. I don't see an advantage over a regular pocket holster.

I'm hoping the advantage is that I can position to gun where it's easier to get to, but otherwise hidden from view. The rigid leather form seems to keep to gun movement a bit freer that with a soft, conforming holster that is positioned deeper in my pocket.

2. Different pants/shorts have different pocket lengths, and distances from belt. With a shallow pocket close to the belt line, the suspension strap will buckle and interfere with the draw. With a deep pocket further away from the belt line, the top of the gun/holster could become visible in the top of the pocket. In other words, the strap will need to be adjustable, but without adding too much bulk or extra strap to get in the way.

I debated a length-adjustable strap on this prototype, using snaps, Velcro, laces, etc to handle the issue of different pants pocket 'drops', but haven't thought out the best solution. The buckling of the strap doesn't seem to be a problem insofar as accessing the gun goes. But, that's certainly a matter of personal opinion/preference... I can understand your concerns over that.

3. A phone or whatever it is attached to the strap to hide will will get in the way of the draw.

Mea Culpa... I didn't intent to suggest a phone or other object be placed in with the holster. Nothing in that pocket but gun! It was my intent that if the holster printed, it would be seen as a phone, tablet, wallet, or some such.

For me, it boils down to my #1 point. I just don't see the advantage over a regular pocket holster that is more simple, and likely less expensive (my DeSantis Nemesis,

The DeSantis design mentions one of my issues. The reverse angled front sight on the XDS snags on the current holster I have and makes a smooth draw impossible... not just difficult. I do understand that this may be a problem specific to my gun selection. But, I trying to solve it with a shaped holster.

Pocket holsters are notoriously difficult to draw while seated. Your holster makes it even harder by packing the top of the pocket with a strap that makes it even more difficult.

The strap is high enough that it's not particularly in the way.

I'd like to see this thing in action, and maybe a better explanation of the problem it's solving. I haven't had an issue with a pocket holster shifting enough to make it hard to draw, but maybe you have? I don't mean to be negative, but these are just some of the issues I see with this particular holster.

Negative is OK! I asked for feedback.

The real issue for me is that I just plain DON'T LIKE the weight of a gun in my pocket. I know the gun is still hanging on my hip, but it doesn't feel near as funky as when it's in my pocket.

I think I'll just wear it for a while and see. I'm heavy-set, so a quick pocket draw is only possible if the gun butt is close to, and just inside my pocket. Otherwise, as with a phone, etc. I'll have to extend my leg a bit to get it out.

Appreciate the feedback!

-Smokiniron

[smokiniron]

The picture is just as I sit at my desk. It prints as I hoped - like something other than a gin.
The but of the XDS is 3/4" inside the lower corner of my pocket.
I can get the needed 2 fingers around the but and draw it easily.
The top-grooved holster keeps the reversed-raked front sight from snagging my pocket material.
It looks bulky(er) than I'd like, but that's more my build problem, and less the fact of having a gun in my pocket (I think)

- Smokiniron

[kahrguy]

Like others the belt added to your holster should not be needed and when a pistol is as larger as the xds it does not work real well in the pocket. Mine a little smaller and will never be pocket CC'd.

I to am a heavier guy and found a couple years back what I think is a great iwb holster thans very comfortable to wear on the front half of my body. I wear a comp-tac minotaur neutral set just high enought so I can set and drive with out problems at about a 2:15 position. Over my front pocket.

I have since trimmed the bottom leather off the holster. And that pocket holster is history too but allways worked fine.

The pistol is a kahr cw9. The width and height or the same with your xds being only 4/10ths longer. I can cover with a loose t-shirt or polo even tuck in a botton down or T. I also pocket a cm9 and in real life I will say walking and sitting with a cw9 sized pistol in a pocket shows. Prints just just to much. Still photos don't do justise to accual movement.

I wear dockers, columbia ,full cut jeans and bibs. Out of view yes but not really hide from knowing eyes. CM sized is way better and way easy to retreve when needed. I have pocket CC'd for 20+ years as a pimary way to carry and have found bad and good pocket holsters but never had issues with a handgun getting out of position. Most of those years as a carpenter.

Take a look at Recluse holster for pocket. They have a different design that simply works and pass's is a wallet. http://www.recluseholster.com/Produc...4B2-1349841735

[SgtLumpy]

I think it prints as something other than a gun UNTIL we see that upper strap to belt piece. To most "normal" people, it still might not print as a gun though. If you had a pager, cellphone, lump of keys, sandwich, whatever in your pocket, it wouldn't have that upper strap piece. The strap piece wants to draw my visual attention. But not too terribly much. And I'm looking for it.

I suppose if I were really concerned about the strap making it look like a holster, I could clip a pager onto it or put a label on it that says something like "Medi-Oxy" or "Emerg-A-Beesting" or "Quik-Keys".


Sgt Lumpy - n0eq

[Gaerek]

I'm hoping the advantage is that I can position to gun where it's easier to get to, but otherwise hidden from view. The rigid leather form seems to keep to gun movement a bit freer that with a soft, conforming holster that is positioned deeper in my pocket.

I can understand that. There are tons of niche holsters out there (refer to the pagerpal I linked earlier) and this might fit a niche. Not for everyone, but certainly for someone.

I debated a length-adjustable strap on this prototype, using snaps, Velcro, laces, etc to handle the issue of different pants pocket 'drops', but haven't thought out the best solution. The buckling of the strap doesn't seem to be a problem insofar as accessing the gun goes. But, that's certainly a matter of personal opinion/preference... I can understand your concerns over that.

And it might not even be as big of a deal as I'm making it out to be. If you say it doesn't interfere, I'll take your word on that, since you're the one making it and using it. If it were something you were looking at marketing though, I'd seriously consider making the strap adjustable. People like holsters they can easily customize for their own usage.

Mea Culpa... I didn't intent to suggest a phone or other object be placed in with the holster. Nothing in that pocket but gun! It was my intent that if the holster printed, it would be seen as a phone, tablet, wallet, or some such.

I completely misunderstood you here. I thought it would be something that would conceal the strap. Looking at the later pictures, it appears that it hides the printing quite well. Something to think about though, if I saw you walking down the street with a big piece of leather coming out of your pocket and attaching to your belt, I'd be really curious what was on the other end of the strap. It could be possible, if you used nylon as the strap, to maybe make the straps in many colors so they could go with different colors of pants (denim blue, khaki and black would likely cover 90% of all pants). Something to think about again, if you were planning on marketing this.

The DeSantis design mentions one of my issues. The reverse angled front sight on the XDS snags on the current holster I have and makes a smooth draw impossible... not just difficult. I do understand that this may be a problem specific to my gun selection. But, I trying to solve it with a shaped holster.

The more I'm thinking about your design, the more I see where it could be useful. Whereas a DeSantis works great on my very rounded LCR, with ramped sight, I understand where it wouldn't work well on a larger striker fired pistol, like the XDS or a Glock or something. The problem is certainly based on the gun you've chosen to carry, and how you've chosen to carry it, but if you have a way to carry it that way, then you should. It appears that if nothing else, this holster design gives you (and other people, if you wish to sell it) more options.

The strap is high enough that it's not particularly in the way.

Good then.

Negative is OK! I asked for feedback.

The real issue for me is that I just plain DON'T LIKE the weight of a gun in my pocket. I know the gun is still hanging on my hip, but it doesn't feel near as funky as when it's in my pocket.

I think I'll just wear it for a while and see. I'm heavy-set, so a quick pocket draw is only possible if the gun butt is close to, and just inside my pocket. Otherwise, as with a phone, etc. I'll have to extend my leg a bit to get it out.

Appreciate the feedback!

I'm a big guy too, so I understand the issues you're bringing up. Let us know how your testing and prototyping goes. I'm interested to see the evolution of this, especially since I am beginning to see some good uses for the holster.

[smokiniron]

I think it prints as something other than a gun UNTIL we see that upper strap to belt piece. To most "normal" people, it still might not print as a gun though. If you had a pager, cellphone, lump of keys, sandwich, whatever in your pocket, it wouldn't have that upper strap piece. The strap piece wants to draw my visual attention. But not too terribly much. And I'm looking for it.

I suppose if I were really concerned about the strap making it look like a holster, I could clip a pager onto it or put a label on it that says something like "Medi-Oxy" or "Emerg-A-Beesting" or "Quik-Keys".

I suppose if I stamped the strap with "Live to Ride", along with a skull and wings, no one would think twice...!

[Walt Sherrill]

Well... It seems we're all offering and receiving the feedback like adults.

It's nice to have real adults participating on these forums. It's not as common as it should be. <grin>

[smokiniron]

Well.... truthfully, I'm a little defensive on this, only because a holster, like a gun is often a very intensely personal issue. I just got really tired of going into Cabelas or the LGSs and hunting for Springfield holsters, only finding a few, then seeing NONE for left-handers. If I'd bought a Glock, no problem. But I chose the gun based on fit, function feel, grip angle, and reports that it passed the Glock torture test better than a Glock. Further, that it was more accurate past 25 yds, according the my LGS who sells them all....

But I digress....

My only point here is that it's easy to start a fight over guns, as well as holsters.

I'm taking all criticism as I evaluate the design - for my own use -. And if I end up selling a few, that's not a bad thing. But, it works for me so far, and like so much in the shooting sports, it's all about what works!

Heck, I bought a Smith and Wesson AR M&P Sport 15 last November (for $599) and caught no end of grief because I didn't buy a Colt 6320 at WallyWorld for $1100. It won't shoot any more accurately, and I don't think I needs the pic rails so much. The forward assist and dust cover won't be missed until they deploy me to the front lines INSIDE the Washington beltway in a year or two!

[kahrguy]

smoke'n it does not matter much what you carry so long as it goes bang. Also don't take what some gun shop sales person tells as the gospel ether. Most of them are like used car salemen!! They also have the same likes and dislikes for brands and no more knowledge than the average shooter.

I caught the same flack to with a M&P Sport.

If your holster works for you thats all that matters ain't it?? Just know that the right iwb can make a handgun the size of your xd's disappear AND work sitting or driveing.

Good luck with your holster design

[smokiniron]

smoke'n it does not matter much what you carry so long as it goes bang. Also don't take what some gun shop sales person tells as the gospel ether. Most of them are like used car salemen!!

Ha! Funny you should say that! I AM a used car (and new car) salesman here in Utah! No offense taken though. I've seen, over the 10 years in the business, that most buyers leave their ethics at the curb when they come in to see me for a car.

The gun guys weren't trying to sell a Springer over a Glock. That was me. I just wanted to hold and shoot a few with their rental program. I scooped up lots of information on line before buying. I believe you are right on their likes and dislikes - just like here, right? Maybe they make 10 bucks more on one gun or the other. But, the guys I've worked with don't try to put me together on their preferences. Maybe I'm just lucky.

As to IWB.. I'm all for that, and carry my XD45 Compact with 5" bbl IWB. I just have a crappy holster with a sloppy belt clip, so it's a dicey affair...!

[kahrguy]

Sorry about the car saleman remark!!. It just seems I had better come armed with all the info I can on what I want. Then wait for the sales manager games. arrrggg

Holsters , I have a small box full of junk holsters. Live and learn.

Thankfully our LGS / general store does not care what you buy. $250 or $2500 , all sell for 10% over cost and they keep around 400 + in stock . Atleast till this lastest crunch hit. Atleast prices have not changed. They also will go that extra step to find a firearm you want. Just not a place to ask to many questions about a firearm.

Good luck with your pocket design.

[smokiniron]

Hey, no apologies needed. In some instances reputations are well-deserved, whether buying a car or a gun! You are right about coming prepared. That makes my job easier. If my clients don't do their homework, they won't know a good deal if it falls in their lap!

And, you're right on LGSs. Sometimes WallyWorld is the best deal, but not likely the best advice - or selection....

I appreciate your help and comments.

[Walt Sherrill]

that most buyers leave their ethics at the curb when they come in to see me for a car.

Yeah -- everybody complains about the dealer or salesperson who rips them off, but never thinks about the person who trades in a car that looks good but which the seller KNOWS is about to fall apart...

[smokiniron]

^^^ 10-4