The .36 Navy Model What a blast! - Page 2

ZVP · November 16, 2011, 11:51 PM

Ok with the usual safety warnings present don't ya just love the sound of a BP revolver fired out in the open? Normal firing ranges are either covered or enclose in some manner, some indoors which amplifies the discharge note somewhat. The roof directs the sound back at you and walls bounce sounds and contain them to unbearsble levels! Outdoors is way different
The throaty roar of Black Powder discharge is far different than the sharp crack of Smokless and perhaps that is part of the allure of BP shooting. As mentioned I took advantage of a situation and did some shooting with my .36Piettia Police model sans hearing muffs. I was suprised at how bearable the shots sounded and were. I had no difficulty shooting under these conditions.
I'd done some handgun hunting and the sound of full house .357 Mags outdoors is far, FAR louder! Smokeless dosent seem to get absourbed by foilage and grasses.
Now just cause I did it don't you do it but due ti a slight hearing imparement from dear Uncle Sam I had no pain or discomfort with the .36. I tried a Remington. 44 but the 35 gr load was pretty loud for the bare ear. I could see me shooting my .36 out in the open!
I wonder if conicals sound different than Ball loads? Higher pressures might change the note?
Have any of you had outdoor experiences with your revolvers?
ZVP

ZVP · November 17, 2011, 12:23 AM

delete message

zullo74 · November 17, 2011, 05:10 AM

Can you type LOUDER? I can't hear you!

Hawg · November 17, 2011, 06:11 AM

I didn't notice any difference between round balls and conicals.

ZVP · November 17, 2011, 07:06 PM

Hawg,
I always wondered if the Conicals kick just a bit more than a Round ball?
I have not yet had the chance to try them out.
I understand they can be really accurate and since they weigh so much more, they must generate more ftLbs of energy!
Ihave read of Buffalo bullets and something about them having a stepped heel to assist in loading. That sounds like a good idea to speed up loading.
What's a typical .36 conical weigh?
Do you loose much velocity with them?
ZVP

Hawg · November 18, 2011, 01:12 AM

They do have a little more kick but round balls are more accurate. Conicals hit harder. Mine are cast from a Lee mold. I got the .380 mold and should have gotten the .375. The Lee's are tapered but the .380 is still too big to start. You have to balance them on the chamber mouth while working the lever. They do load easy and straight once you get them started tho. I don't remember offhand what they weigh. They load very easy in my brass Remington but those chambers are a little larger. Dunno bout velocity, never chrono'd them.

radom · November 18, 2011, 04:38 AM

From what I have always got is the conicals totaly defeat the idea of a fast soft lead bullet deal so they have more effect on the shooter than the target. The main down is from what I see is they are a pain to get in the guns too. Walkers or dragoon types they have room to get them in the cylinder but all the rest they are a pain.

Hawg · November 18, 2011, 07:49 AM

There's room, for the Lee's anyway. The .380's are a tad big is the only thing. They drop right in with the brass Remington like they're supposed to.

BillCA · November 18, 2011, 08:25 AM

A question I should ask is why so many people favor the 1851 Navy.

I have always preferred the look of the 1862 Police and Sheriff's models in .36 caliber to the Navy models.

I've found the 1862 Police, whether with the 5.5 or 8" barrel balances superbly in my hand and the weight is just right for a "carry" pistol. The 1861 Navy is a fine small gun too, though it doesn't have the same balance.

During the civil war, paper cartridges were used, but the bullet weights ranged from 139 to 155 grains, depending upon who made them. A .36 caliber (.375") lead round ball weighed about 70 grains. If pushed to 1000 fps, that only produces 155 ft-lbs, though I suspect the lightweight ball was moving considerably faster.

If the 139 grain moved at 1000 fps that gives 309 ft-lbs while a 155gr at 850 fps would give 249 ft-lbs. In contrast, the .38 Special 158gr @800 fps produces 225 ft-lbs.

Has anyone chronographed their round ball loads?

arcticap · November 18, 2011, 09:52 AM

From
Cap and Ball Ballistics
By Ed Sanow
Handguns February 1998

Cap and Ball Wound Ballistics

Calibre
Firearm
Bullet
FFFg
Velocity
Energy
1 Shot Stop

.36 Navy
Colt 1851 Navy
70gr RB
22gr
1038 fps
189 ft lb
59%

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...ighlight=sanow

Doc Hoy · November 18, 2011, 10:02 AM

It is my opinion (and that is all it is.) that people subconsciously like the octagon barrel. It appears (again, only a matter of my opinion) to be more businesslike than the elegant 1860 with its graceful lines and round barrel.

It is also my opinion that the 1860 is a better looking revolver.

MJN77 · November 18, 2011, 11:18 AM

Quote:

A question I should ask is why so many people favor the 1851 Navy

Many people consider the 1851 navy revolver, the best balanced C&B revolver ever made. They point naturally, and they were known for their accuracy. The 51 grip was also more popular over the bigger "army" grip, or the smaller 1862 pocket police/navy grips, so much so that they were carried over to the 1873 SAA. There are many reasons that the 1851 was so popular even when there were more powerful .44s available.

ZVP · November 18, 2011, 04:34 PM

The Lee bullets look like they'd load very straight inside the cylinder. I have read posts that some Conicals don't load straight in the chambers but those Lee;s sure look good!
I have both a '51 London model .36 and a '62 Piettia Police Frankilly the 51 feels lighter in the hand than the short barreled Police does. I think the barrel assy on the '62 is a litle heavier. At leadt it feels that way to me.
I really can't choose between the two as I really like shooting both!
ZVP

Hal · November 18, 2011, 05:34 PM

Quote:

A question I should ask is why so many people favor the 1851 Navy.

MJN77 beat me to it - but - yes, grip and balance.

I have to believe also that James Butler Hickock and Orin Porter Rockwell had a hand in boosting the popularity of the 1851 Navy.
It was a favorite of both & both men were legendary for their prowess with it.

November 16, 2011, 11:51 PM	#26
ZVP Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2009 Posts: 1,102	Yea they make a Boom! Ok with the usual safety warnings present don't ya just love the sound of a BP revolver fired out in the open? Normal firing ranges are either covered or enclose in some manner, some indoors which amplifies the discharge note somewhat. The roof directs the sound back at you and walls bounce sounds and contain them to unbearsble levels! Outdoors is way different The throaty roar of Black Powder discharge is far different than the sharp crack of Smokless and perhaps that is part of the allure of BP shooting. As mentioned I took advantage of a situation and did some shooting with my .36Piettia Police model sans hearing muffs. I was suprised at how bearable the shots sounded and were. I had no difficulty shooting under these conditions. I'd done some handgun hunting and the sound of full house .357 Mags outdoors is far, FAR louder! Smokeless dosent seem to get absourbed by foilage and grasses. Now just cause I did it don't you do it but due ti a slight hearing imparement from dear Uncle Sam I had no pain or discomfort with the .36. I tried a Remington. 44 but the 35 gr load was pretty loud for the bare ear. I could see me shooting my .36 out in the open! I wonder if conicals sound different than Ball loads? Higher pressures might change the note? Have any of you had outdoor experiences with your revolvers? ZVP

November 17, 2011, 12:23 AM	#27
ZVP Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2009 Posts: 1,102	delete message Last edited by ZVP; November 17, 2011 at 12:24 AM. Reason: delete.

November 18, 2011, 08:25 AM	#34
BillCA Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, Ca Posts: 7,117	A question I should ask is why so many people favor the 1851 Navy. I have always preferred the look of the 1862 Police and Sheriff's models in .36 caliber to the Navy models. I've found the 1862 Police, whether with the 5.5 or 8" barrel balances superbly in my hand and the weight is just right for a "carry" pistol. The 1861 Navy is a fine small gun too, though it doesn't have the same balance. During the civil war, paper cartridges were used, but the bullet weights ranged from 139 to 155 grains, depending upon who made them. A .36 caliber (.375") lead round ball weighed about 70 grains. If pushed to 1000 fps, that only produces 155 ft-lbs, though I suspect the lightweight ball was moving considerably faster. If the 139 grain moved at 1000 fps that gives 309 ft-lbs while a 155gr at 850 fps would give 249 ft-lbs. In contrast, the .38 Special 158gr @800 fps produces 225 ft-lbs. Has anyone chronographed their round ball loads? __________________ BillCA in CA (Unfortunately) Last edited by BillCA; November 18, 2011 at 08:31 AM.

November 18, 2011, 10:02 AM	#36
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Why do people prefer the the 1851 pattern?... It is my opinion (and that is all it is.) that people subconsciously like the octagon barrel. It appears (again, only a matter of my opinion) to be more businesslike than the elegant 1860 with its graceful lines and round barrel. It is also my opinion that the 1860 is a better looking revolver. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

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November 17, 2011, 05:10 AM	#28
zullo74 Junior member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Posts: 374	Can you type LOUDER? I can't hear you!

November 17, 2011, 06:11 AM	#29
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	I didn't notice any difference between round balls and conicals.

November 17, 2011, 07:06 PM	#30
ZVP Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2009 Posts: 1,102	Hawg, I always wondered if the Conicals kick just a bit more than a Round ball? I have not yet had the chance to try them out. I understand they can be really accurate and since they weigh so much more, they must generate more ftLbs of energy! Ihave read of Buffalo bullets and something about them having a stepped heel to assist in loading. That sounds like a good idea to speed up loading. What's a typical .36 conical weigh? Do you loose much velocity with them? ZVP

November 18, 2011, 01:12 AM	#31
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	They do have a little more kick but round balls are more accurate. Conicals hit harder. Mine are cast from a Lee mold. I got the .380 mold and should have gotten the .375. The Lee's are tapered but the .380 is still too big to start. You have to balance them on the chamber mouth while working the lever. They do load easy and straight once you get them started tho. I don't remember offhand what they weigh. They load very easy in my brass Remington but those chambers are a little larger. Dunno bout velocity, never chrono'd them.

November 18, 2011, 04:38 AM	#32
radom Senior Member Join Date: January 21, 2000 Posts: 1,353	From what I have always got is the conicals totaly defeat the idea of a fast soft lead bullet deal so they have more effect on the shooter than the target. The main down is from what I see is they are a pain to get in the guns too. Walkers or dragoon types they have room to get them in the cylinder but all the rest they are a pain.

November 18, 2011, 07:49 AM	#33
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	There's room, for the Lee's anyway. The .380's are a tad big is the only thing. They drop right in with the brass Remington like they're supposed to.

November 18, 2011, 09:52 AM	#35
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	From Cap and Ball Ballistics By Ed Sanow Handguns February 1998 Cap and Ball Wound Ballistics Calibre Firearm Bullet FFFg Velocity Energy 1 Shot Stop .36 Navy Colt 1851 Navy 70gr RB 22gr 1038 fps 189 ft lb 59% http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...ighlight=sanow

November 18, 2011, 04:34 PM	#38
ZVP Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2009 Posts: 1,102	The Lee bullets look like they'd load very straight inside the cylinder. I have read posts that some Conicals don't load straight in the chambers but those Lee;s sure look good! I have both a '51 London model .36 and a '62 Piettia Police Frankilly the 51 feels lighter in the hand than the short barreled Police does. I think the barrel assy on the '62 is a litle heavier. At leadt it feels that way to me. I really can't choose between the two as I really like shooting both! ZVP