First batch of reloads...thoughts on my new hobby

clsmyth · January 20, 2009, 12:00 AM

Last week all the pieces-parts came together. I received my press, bullets, and one reloading manual in the mail, and picked up primers, powder, two scales, some dial calipers, and another reloading manual locally. Here is the complete inventory.

Lee Loadmaster in .45 ACP
4-die (carbide) set, including factory crimp die
Billy Bullets 230gr LRN moly-kote bullets
Winchester large pistol primers
1 lb. Accurate #7
My own (well, mostly) .45 brass - Winchester White Box
Lee balance beam scale
MTM Case-Gard digital scale
Frankford Arsenal dial calipers
Lyman 49th manual
Modern Reloading 2nd Ed. (Richard Lee)

If I had to sum up the Loadmaster in one word, I would have to say "tricky". Lee does a good job of keeping the price down but at least in my case I really had to fiddle with that thing in order to make it run. My advice is be prepared to file and sand and lube various bits and pieces and edges of the press *right off the bat* in order to make it work smoothly, and once it runs be prepared to pay attention to what is happening at all 5 stations when you are loading in full-out progressive mode. It is a somewhat nerve-wracking experience unless you run it one complete cartridge at a time for your first 50 cartridges or so. If I had it to do over again that's what I'd do. Instead, as soon as I got the first complete cartridge in my hot little hand I loaded up the shell feeder and went to town.

Here is a picture of my setup:

Yes, I could have a better bench but I have nowhere to put such a bench so I improvised. That's a piece of 2x12 there, C-clamped to the back overhang of my desk. That's my "bench" and it will have to do for now.

The LM functioned pretty well but I ended up having a primer feed in sideways and tear up the little plastic primer chute and primer feeder. Fortunately I was able to repair the chute with a file, and Lee includes a spare feeder with the LM. I think my primers occasionally flip and go sideways because the 2x12 I have the press mounted to is not secured in the front and I have to hold it down when I raise the press arm (didn't think about that). This causes the whole press to shudder a bit as the current cartridge pulls out of the factory crimp die. Oh well.

I am just using the starting load of AA#7, 10 grains. It should be 9.9 but 10 is as close as the Lee auto-disk powder measure comes with this particular powder. I am seating to about 1.270" OAL. Seating primers about .004" below flush. Medium crimp.

When I misfed that primer I had to jiggle and jack around with the press a bunch in order to see what had happened. I ended up double-charging one case but I saw it happen so I dumped it out. It unnerved me though and that is when I went out and bought that second scale. I used it to weigh every single cartridge after I completed the batch. I bought the first scale - the Lee balance beam scale - only thinking of using it to double-check the powder load being thrown by the auto-disk. But that scale only measures up to 110 gr. or so, and .45 ACP bullets alone are heavier than that. Plus, using a beam scale is slow, tedious work. The little electronic scale is much less hassle, and great for double-checking my work at the end. It is fast and accurate enough to detect a probable double-charge, even given weight inconsistencies from bullet to bullet and case to case. At least, when a single charge is as big as 10gr. Had I been using AA#2 or similar, I would have been a lot more nervous.

One thing about powder selection...I specifically chose AA#7 in order to have a powder that would overflow the case if double charged, even at starting charge weight. Well...45 ACP cases are BIG. they easily hold 20+ grains of AA#7. If you know of a powder that will overflow a .45 ACP case when I double-charge even a starting charge, then I'd like to know what it is. 'Cause it ain't AA#7.

On manuals...I like the Lyman but it doesn't have just a whole lot to say up front (i.e. in the sections ahead of the actual reload data). I mean, it has enough to cover the basics - don't get me wrong. What it does have to say is sort of dry, too. Modern Reloading on the other hand...lots and lots of useful expository info, but not quite as neatly organized, and not as easy to follow considering Richard Lee's somewhat informal writing style. And his constant hawking and exalting of his own products gets a little tiresome too :-) But I still think Modern Reloading is a great manual - the better of the two.

Loadmaster and die setup videos at http://loadmastervideos.com and http://leeprecision.com are extremely useful. I favor the ones at Lee's website as they are very short and to the point, and there is a separate video for each die.

Oh, how did the reloads perform? Very well IMHO. They shot a bit higher than factory WWB 230gr FMJ, due I guess to lower bullet velocity. But they grouped well...about as well as I have ever grouped. I'm sure this will get better as my consistency improved on my reloads. Also I was pretty nervous shooting that first batch...all I could think about was my pistol disintegrating and taking my face with it. I had one cartridge refuse to fire, and one that did not fire the first time but after I rechambered it was OK. I had two more that would not quite allow the gun to go into battery so I had to re-chamber them a couple of times. I guess the bullet was seated out too far. The pistol I was using was a bone-stock government model 1911. It is an American Custom II (by Firestorm, I believe). I bought it new a couple months ago and have shot a few hundred rounds of WWB FMJ through it with no issues.

I re-setup the press and ran another batch of 100 with a slightly shorter OAL (1.260) and a firmer crimp to see if the out-of-battery and point-of-impact issues resolve. I will take them out next weekend and see how they do. If that POI thing keeps up I will probably increase the powder load a bit. And I'll probably step down to lighter bullets as soon as I shoot through all of these...I bought 1000 as a start which was a little enthusiastic I guess.

Anyway, I had fun doing all of it, including working on the press :-) well that could have been more fun I guess but at least I got through it. Now I just need to figure out what additional parts I need to order so that I can start cranking out some 9x19.

-cls

SKULLANDCROSSBONES65 · January 20, 2009, 03:24 AM

G'day clsmyth. I set my press up in a similar system. If you take out the top draw of your desk you will be able to put a clamp up the front. You might even be able to turn the clamp up side down (so the screw is not in your way).

Quote:

If you know of a powder that will double-charge a .45 ACP case at starting charge weight then I'd like to know what it is.

Not sure what you want to know here?

I think you might have a word missing.

Quote:

will double-charge

You may need to add the word NOT. Either way I don't know the answer

Sevens · January 20, 2009, 09:26 AM

He's asking if anyone knows of a powder, that when accidentally double-charged in a .45 case, overfills the case and dumps on to the bench.

I can't tell you of one offhand... I know Trail Boss is famous for exactly that (may even be specifically designed with that in mind) but I don't have it, haven't used it, and I don't even know if it's appropriate for .45 loads, but it may be.

In any case, I don't think that's the best way to avoid an overcharge or double charge-- better to rig up some sort of high-intensity light and make it part of the routine to do a visual check, this will give you piece of mind and it's hard to put a price on that.

They do make lock-out and powder cop dies that sense the level of powder in the case and either emit a warning noise or lock up the press in the event of a charge which doesn't match up, but I don't know about the possibility of using one in this particular press.

As for chambering issues, I would look at two things.
I would look at COAL and also the amount of flaring you are doing to the case.

Forget the priming, powder and bullet seating for a moment and look at the case mouth flare. You need enough flare to be able to seat a cast lead bullet WITHOUT shaving lead from it, but you want no more flare than the minimum. Too much flare works the brass more the necessary, and it also makes it more difficult to un-do that flare and make rounds that chamber properly.

So toy with your flare and see what's the least you can get away with and that may help to fix the chambering ability of your rounds.

One of the the most important tools at the bench when loading semi-auto rounds is to the barrel of your pistol. Field strip it, bring the barrel to your bench and drop loaded rounds in to the chamber. You want them to drop in, and drop out, just like a factory round does. If you are making rounds that do that, chambering is not going to be an issue.

As for mis-fires, check to make sure that you are priming the cases firmly and that you primers are seated below flush by a hair. You can easily tell this by running your thumb over a factory round and "feeling" how that primer sits, then compare your handloaded round to it. If you primer is not flush, the energy of your firing pin hitting that primer is used to finish up the primer seating that you didn't do at the load bench... and that's why the second strike ends up firing the round instead of the first.

Your setup-- I also had a period (back in college) when the reloading space & setup was temporary and MINIMUM. It worked, I made great, safe ammo, but it was much less than ideal. I don't regret it and I firmly believe that you don't have to have a fully operational man-cave to do this stuff... but having -THE- space and large setup is the dream and I wouldn't ever want to go back. I also find that the more counter space I have, the harder it is to keep things organized.

clsmyth · January 20, 2009, 09:42 AM

S&C65, what Sevens (post below yours) says is correct. Sorry about the terrible wording; I have fixed it. Sevens, thanks for the advice. I will adjust my flare and make my barrel part of the load process. I think my flare is a but much right now...the bullet seats great and easily by hand but I can make do with less I think.

PDshooter · January 20, 2009, 09:49 AM

Looks good........Been loading since 86. I use A N Y 45ACP brass I can get my hands on!...Except that crap "Amrercor" or something like that:barf:
Be safe , have fun!

ZeSpectre · January 20, 2009, 10:34 AM

and clsmyth was never heard from again (except for a "chunk chunk" sound from his workshop and the occasional "honey I'm off to the range").

The bizzare thing I've discovered about reloading is that I actually enjoy doing a little "brass prep" work each night when I come home from work. Getting 50-100 pcs of brass ready for reloading shifts my brain away from work and when I'm done I'm more than ready to spend time with my wife and the doggie

From May 08 to now I've scrounged just a hair over 7k pieces of brass in various calibers and prepped 90% of it for reloading. I have a LOT of bullets headed my way so soon my problem will shift to making shelves strong enough to hold the boxes of finished rounds

Sevens · January 20, 2009, 10:52 AM

Quote:

I think my flare is a but much right now...the bullet seats great and easily by hand but I can make do with less I think.

Well, without seeing it or being there, this is kind of just a guess at what is actually happening...
BUT-- if you are flaring SO MUCH that you can seat a cast lead bullt simply with thumb pressure to proper depth, than I would have to say that is way, way, WAY too much flaring, and in fact, could cause some very serious problems.

With a semi-auto round, the crimp doesn't really hold the bullet in place-- case mouth tension from re-sizing the brass back to spec is what holds the bullet in place. "Crimp" or taper crimping pretty much just tapers the brass case back to spec (or close to it) to undo the flaring.

Excessive flaring removes case mouth tension. Given the nature of a self-loading pistol, those rounds are being knocked around and forced in to the chamber. If you don't have good case mouth tension (because you flare excessively) than you open up the possibility of bullet setback, where the bullet gets pushed farther in to the case than it should by accident, usually when the slide slams forward.

When that happens, things explode. Pressure shoots up exponentially when there isn't the proper space inside the case for the load data and powder being used.

Take one of your loaded rounds and forcefully push the bullet further in to the case by hand, using no tools. If you can make that bullet go deeper, you have a very dangerous loaded round.

This is often the result of excessive flare.
See how LITTLE flare you can use and still seat bullets without shaving lead. That's the kind of flare you are looking for.

clsmyth · January 20, 2009, 11:09 AM

Whoa, sorry, let me correct myself. What I meant to say is that the bullet PLACES easily. That is, the flare is enough that when I place the bullet by hand, it sits deep enough that it won't tip over as I am working the press. But it is just barely in there. I doubt I could seat it to anywhere near the proper depth by hand. Still, though, I will reduce the flare a bit to see if it helps.

January 20, 2009, 12:00 AM	#1
clsmyth Junior member Join Date: March 6, 2008 Location: Carrollton TX Posts: 37	First batch of reloads...thoughts on my new hobby Last week all the pieces-parts came together. I received my press, bullets, and one reloading manual in the mail, and picked up primers, powder, two scales, some dial calipers, and another reloading manual locally. Here is the complete inventory. Lee Loadmaster in .45 ACP 4-die (carbide) set, including factory crimp die Billy Bullets 230gr LRN moly-kote bullets Winchester large pistol primers 1 lb. Accurate #7 My own (well, mostly) .45 brass - Winchester White Box Lee balance beam scale MTM Case-Gard digital scale Frankford Arsenal dial calipers Lyman 49th manual Modern Reloading 2nd Ed. (Richard Lee) If I had to sum up the Loadmaster in one word, I would have to say "tricky". Lee does a good job of keeping the price down but at least in my case I really had to fiddle with that thing in order to make it run. My advice is be prepared to file and sand and lube various bits and pieces and edges of the press right off the bat in order to make it work smoothly, and once it runs be prepared to pay attention to what is happening at all 5 stations when you are loading in full-out progressive mode. It is a somewhat nerve-wracking experience unless you run it one complete cartridge at a time for your first 50 cartridges or so. If I had it to do over again that's what I'd do. Instead, as soon as I got the first complete cartridge in my hot little hand I loaded up the shell feeder and went to town. Here is a picture of my setup: Yes, I could have a better bench but I have nowhere to put such a bench so I improvised. That's a piece of 2x12 there, C-clamped to the back overhang of my desk. That's my "bench" and it will have to do for now. The LM functioned pretty well but I ended up having a primer feed in sideways and tear up the little plastic primer chute and primer feeder. Fortunately I was able to repair the chute with a file, and Lee includes a spare feeder with the LM. I think my primers occasionally flip and go sideways because the 2x12 I have the press mounted to is not secured in the front and I have to hold it down when I raise the press arm (didn't think about that). This causes the whole press to shudder a bit as the current cartridge pulls out of the factory crimp die. Oh well. I am just using the starting load of AA#7, 10 grains. It should be 9.9 but 10 is as close as the Lee auto-disk powder measure comes with this particular powder. I am seating to about 1.270" OAL. Seating primers about .004" below flush. Medium crimp. When I misfed that primer I had to jiggle and jack around with the press a bunch in order to see what had happened. I ended up double-charging one case but I saw it happen so I dumped it out. It unnerved me though and that is when I went out and bought that second scale. I used it to weigh every single cartridge after I completed the batch. I bought the first scale - the Lee balance beam scale - only thinking of using it to double-check the powder load being thrown by the auto-disk. But that scale only measures up to 110 gr. or so, and .45 ACP bullets alone are heavier than that. Plus, using a beam scale is slow, tedious work. The little electronic scale is much less hassle, and great for double-checking my work at the end. It is fast and accurate enough to detect a probable double-charge, even given weight inconsistencies from bullet to bullet and case to case. At least, when a single charge is as big as 10gr. Had I been using AA#2 or similar, I would have been a lot more nervous. One thing about powder selection...I specifically chose AA#7 in order to have a powder that would overflow the case if double charged, even at starting charge weight. Well...45 ACP cases are BIG. they easily hold 20+ grains of AA#7. If you know of a powder that will overflow a .45 ACP case when I double-charge even a starting charge, then I'd like to know what it is. 'Cause it ain't AA#7. On manuals...I like the Lyman but it doesn't have just a whole lot to say up front (i.e. in the sections ahead of the actual reload data). I mean, it has enough to cover the basics - don't get me wrong. What it does have to say is sort of dry, too. Modern Reloading on the other hand...lots and lots of useful expository info, but not quite as neatly organized, and not as easy to follow considering Richard Lee's somewhat informal writing style. And his constant hawking and exalting of his own products gets a little tiresome too :-) But I still think Modern Reloading is a great manual - the better of the two. Loadmaster and die setup videos at http://loadmastervideos.com and http://leeprecision.com are extremely useful. I favor the ones at Lee's website as they are very short and to the point, and there is a separate video for each die. Oh, how did the reloads perform? Very well IMHO. They shot a bit higher than factory WWB 230gr FMJ, due I guess to lower bullet velocity. But they grouped well...about as well as I have ever grouped. I'm sure this will get better as my consistency improved on my reloads. Also I was pretty nervous shooting that first batch...all I could think about was my pistol disintegrating and taking my face with it. I had one cartridge refuse to fire, and one that did not fire the first time but after I rechambered it was OK. I had two more that would not quite allow the gun to go into battery so I had to re-chamber them a couple of times. I guess the bullet was seated out too far. The pistol I was using was a bone-stock government model 1911. It is an American Custom II (by Firestorm, I believe). I bought it new a couple months ago and have shot a few hundred rounds of WWB FMJ through it with no issues. I re-setup the press and ran another batch of 100 with a slightly shorter OAL (1.260) and a firmer crimp to see if the out-of-battery and point-of-impact issues resolve. I will take them out next weekend and see how they do. If that POI thing keeps up I will probably increase the powder load a bit. And I'll probably step down to lighter bullets as soon as I shoot through all of these...I bought 1000 as a start which was a little enthusiastic I guess. Anyway, I had fun doing all of it, including working on the press :-) well that could have been more fun I guess but at least I got through it. Now I just need to figure out what additional parts I need to order so that I can start cranking out some 9x19. -cls Last edited by clsmyth; January 20, 2009 at 09:39 AM. Reason: corrected confusing wording

January 20, 2009, 09:26 AM	#3
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	He's asking if anyone knows of a powder, that when accidentally double-charged in a .45 case, overfills the case and dumps on to the bench. I can't tell you of one offhand... I know Trail Boss is famous for exactly that (may even be specifically designed with that in mind) but I don't have it, haven't used it, and I don't even know if it's appropriate for .45 loads, but it may be. In any case, I don't think that's the best way to avoid an overcharge or double charge-- better to rig up some sort of high-intensity light and make it part of the routine to do a visual check, this will give you piece of mind and it's hard to put a price on that. They do make lock-out and powder cop dies that sense the level of powder in the case and either emit a warning noise or lock up the press in the event of a charge which doesn't match up, but I don't know about the possibility of using one in this particular press. As for chambering issues, I would look at two things. I would look at COAL and also the amount of flaring you are doing to the case. Forget the priming, powder and bullet seating for a moment and look at the case mouth flare. You need enough flare to be able to seat a cast lead bullet WITHOUT shaving lead from it, but you want no more flare than the minimum. Too much flare works the brass more the necessary, and it also makes it more difficult to un-do that flare and make rounds that chamber properly. So toy with your flare and see what's the least you can get away with and that may help to fix the chambering ability of your rounds. One of the the most important tools at the bench when loading semi-auto rounds is to the barrel of your pistol. Field strip it, bring the barrel to your bench and drop loaded rounds in to the chamber. You want them to drop in, and drop out, just like a factory round does. If you are making rounds that do that, chambering is not going to be an issue. As for mis-fires, check to make sure that you are priming the cases firmly and that you primers are seated below flush by a hair. You can easily tell this by running your thumb over a factory round and "feeling" how that primer sits, then compare your handloaded round to it. If you primer is not flush, the energy of your firing pin hitting that primer is used to finish up the primer seating that you didn't do at the load bench... and that's why the second strike ends up firing the round instead of the first. Your setup-- I also had a period (back in college) when the reloading space & setup was temporary and MINIMUM. It worked, I made great, safe ammo, but it was much less than ideal. I don't regret it and I firmly believe that you don't have to have a fully operational man-cave to do this stuff... but having -THE- space and large setup is the dream and I wouldn't ever want to go back. I also find that the more counter space I have, the harder it is to keep things organized. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

January 20, 2009, 09:49 AM	#5
PDshooter Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2000 Location: Indiana Posts: 607	Looks good........Been loading since 86. I use A N Y 45ACP brass I can get my hands on!...Except that crap "Amrercor" or something like that:barf: Be safe , have fun! __________________ Life member NRA 20yrs guard . MOS 63H 11B 43E Shoot Shovel Shut-up!

January 20, 2009, 09:42 AM	#4
clsmyth Junior member Join Date: March 6, 2008 Location: Carrollton TX Posts: 37	S&C65, what Sevens (post below yours) says is correct. Sorry about the terrible wording; I have fixed it. Sevens, thanks for the advice. I will adjust my flare and make my barrel part of the load process. I think my flare is a but much right now...the bullet seats great and easily by hand but I can make do with less I think.

January 20, 2009, 10:34 AM	#6
ZeSpectre Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Shenandoah Valley Posts: 3,276	and clsmyth was never heard from again (except for a "chunk chunk" sound from his workshop and the occasional "honey I'm off to the range"). The bizzare thing I've discovered about reloading is that I actually enjoy doing a little "brass prep" work each night when I come home from work. Getting 50-100 pcs of brass ready for reloading shifts my brain away from work and when I'm done I'm more than ready to spend time with my wife and the doggie From May 08 to now I've scrounged just a hair over 7k pieces of brass in various calibers and prepped 90% of it for reloading. I have a LOT of bullets headed my way so soon my problem will shift to making shelves strong enough to hold the boxes of finished rounds

January 20, 2009, 11:09 AM	#8
clsmyth Junior member Join Date: March 6, 2008 Location: Carrollton TX Posts: 37	Whoa, sorry, let me correct myself. What I meant to say is that the bullet PLACES easily. That is, the flare is enough that when I place the bullet by hand, it sits deep enough that it won't tip over as I am working the press. But it is just barely in there. I doubt I could seat it to anywhere near the proper depth by hand. Still, though, I will reduce the flare a bit to see if it helps.