How do you prevent this from happening? - Page 2

Coronach · November 6, 2002, 03:34 AM

Quote:

"What happened to 96 percent one shot stops?"

This kid was part of the 4 %. Good thing he wasn't shot twice?

Huh? Where does it say that he kept coming forward after being shot? 'Stop' and 'kill' are NOT interchangable. Killed does not mean stopped, and stopped certainly does not mean killed. And lest anyone think I'm splitting hairs, this is one of those trifling legal nuances that can be the difference between 'true bill' and 'no bill' in the context of Grand Juries.

This could also explain why he was not shot more...BOOM and down he goes like a sack of potatoes. Threat over...and, ah hell, its my idiot nephew anyway.

Bet he doesn't get invited back for Christmas.

Mike

fastbolt · November 7, 2002, 03:13 AM

This situation, as you've outlined it in a bare bones manner, is simply one of those unfortunate, sad and pathetic situations that nobody wants to see occur ...

You shouldn't shoot what you can't see .... and you shouldn't shoot just because you're startled awake in "unusual" circumstances ... being in hostile jungle environments notwithstanding ...

A hysterical family member running into the sleeping person's room to get help for some emergency reason, carrying some unexpected "tool" or article in their hands, isn't that far fetched for most large family homes ...

Too many family members have been shot and killed by other family members who thought they were someone else who represented a "threat", and didn't see who they were shooting at ...

"Bare fear alone" is insufficient to justify using deadly force. Other factors must be present.

Like the man said, Stupidity should be painful ...

But, since you shared, I'll share one that's always made me feel somewhat embarrassed, and ends on a lighter note ...

Somewhere between 28-30 years ago, I was a young man visiting my out-of-town girlfriend (now wife) and her family for the weekend. I was sleeping in the back bedroom at the opposite end of the ranch-style house from everyone else ... of course

...

I should explain that once I became of age, my dad had encouraged me to sleep safely with my .45, even at home, but especially while traveling ... My girlfriend didn't like guns, and her family didn't own any, but ... like me, accept my guns ...

So, one morning, while I was sleeping very soundly and peacefully ... and quite safely, I might add ...

In through the closed bedroom door burst my girlfriend and her mother, without any damned warning, shouting "They're landing in the back, in the corn bed! They're landing in the back! ..." and frantically pointing to the bedroom window which was closed, with the curtains drawn shut, but which faced the rear orchard.

They're ?? landing ?? in the back ???

While I was bouncing up front a sound sleep ... I was much younger ... trying to make sense of what they were shouting, and the direction they were both pointing outside the window ... I heard the strangest loud, undulating humming and whooshing noise I'd ever heard.

My cocked & locked Commander was in my hand before my feet hit the floor, and I was fuzzily trying to imagine what & who the hell would be landing in back of the house, making that god-awful weird noise, which I just then was able to orient on ... and I realized it was traveling overhead and moving slowly away from the house, and lower ... toward the orchard where the women were still frantically pointing ... and it sounded uncomfortably too close, like right outside.

Wearing my underwear and my Commander, I threw open the curtains ... expecting ... what, I had no idea ...

But it damn sure wasn't a crippled hot air balloon ... being followed on foot by a fair crowd of folks that had been following it to its unexpected emergency landing point ... merrily trampling the rows of corn in which the gondola had safely landed.

Everybody was having such a damned fine time with all the excitement, I doubt they noticed the almost naked young man holding the .45 pistol at his side, looking out the window at the melee ... perplexed, and somewhat annoyed now that I was awake (I'm NOT a morning person under the best of circumstances) ... and also wondering what the hell my girlfriend and her mother found so entertaining suddenly ...

Well, it was time to get up anyway, and it sure seemed like it wasn't going to get any quieter any time soon ...

444 · November 7, 2002, 11:33 AM

This is an old thread, but I think it is a shame that no one commented on my post. I guess it wasn't a dramatic enough solution. There was no gun-store commando stuff involved. It was just the same low tech stuff that has worked for thousands of years. Something like this is just one more reason to have a dog. He will know if it is friend or foe long before you do, and without any flashlights or other hardware. He will be able to immediately sense the other persons intentions and if nessessary protect you from them. This will happen no matter who the other person is (family member gone crazy situation). We often have threads on here about investigating noises at night etc. This is a non-issue if you have a dog; he will know someone is there before they make a noise for you to hear. He will know even before the noise is made if this person is supposed to be there or not, he will know what their intentions are.
House clearing ? Why, the dog took care of that without even moving.

Drjones · November 7, 2002, 07:36 PM

444: you have a point, but this man was away from home.

What, you're supposed to travel with guns AND dogs???

444 · November 7, 2002, 08:53 PM

True enough, although I frequently do travel with my dog. That option of course is dependant on your host.

bela · November 9, 2002, 09:07 AM

Breaking a door is NO joke in my opinion.
And I have no friends who would do such a nonsense.

sm · November 13, 2002, 03:13 AM

Like Sam , played this out, his assesment spot on. Age of nephew not given, but if able to break door should have been mature enough to match his size. Again if elaspes b/t crashes-but don't know how sound a sleeper. Not all facts here, but nephew in wrong.

When I visit, its usually like minded people. If I stay at mom's-we have arrangements,same with friends. Hotels etc, use wedge chair...etc-same goes for when in bathroom too.

Many years ago rash of robberies, our window busted to divert police while robbery occured elsewhere. Business next door's owners' teenage kid BUST through the door screams " This is a stickup"--2 handguns, and me with Model 37 throw down his direction--he wet himself. His dad comes over, to get him--oh he chews that boy out...kid said the rack of shotty scared him to death... He has never forgotton that day...never pulled that again. No guns at him-low ready- I turned safe area, removed 00 buck, toss to him as a reminder.

444- point well taken even if visiting, dogs will alert- good head up IMO

CULLENIII · November 14, 2002, 04:35 PM

the nephew unfortunatley got what he asked for. But then again consider my tactics. I visit relatives, friends, and hotels all the time. I always am armed. I always am concealed. At night number 1 gun goes on nightstand, number two stays in pants at ready with shoes at ready and number 3 with body armor is in bag still--usually a shotgun or kel tec carbine. I also have on nightstand pepper spray, cell phone and flashlight. Also micro light on key ring and 2 flashlights bag as well. I always block door at night with chair, besides locking it. This has worked well for me after 2 attempted home invasions-one at home and one at hotel. At times if more security is needed i use a portable motion detector.

November 9, 2002, 09:07 AM	#31
bela Member Join Date: May 14, 2002 Location: Austria Posts: 89	joke Breaking a door is NO joke in my opinion. And I have no friends who would do such a nonsense.

November 13, 2002, 03:13 AM	#32
sm Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2002 Posts: 1,819	nephew goofed-big time... Like Sam , played this out, his assesment spot on. Age of nephew not given, but if able to break door should have been mature enough to match his size. Again if elaspes b/t crashes-but don't know how sound a sleeper. Not all facts here, but nephew in wrong. When I visit, its usually like minded people. If I stay at mom's-we have arrangements,same with friends. Hotels etc, use wedge chair...etc-same goes for when in bathroom too. Many years ago rash of robberies, our window busted to divert police while robbery occured elsewhere. Business next door's owners' teenage kid BUST through the door screams " This is a stickup"--2 handguns, and me with Model 37 throw down his direction--he wet himself. His dad comes over, to get him--oh he chews that boy out...kid said the rack of shotty scared him to death... He has never forgotton that day...never pulled that again. No guns at him-low ready- I turned safe area, removed 00 buck, toss to him as a reminder. 444- point well taken even if visiting, dogs will alert- good head up IMO __________________ Use Enough Gun TFL Alumni

November 14, 2002, 04:35 PM	#33
CULLENIII Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Central Florida Posts: 55	the nephew unfortunatley got what he asked for. But then again consider my tactics. I visit relatives, friends, and hotels all the time. I always am armed. I always am concealed. At night number 1 gun goes on nightstand, number two stays in pants at ready with shoes at ready and number 3 with body armor is in bag still--usually a shotgun or kel tec carbine. I also have on nightstand pepper spray, cell phone and flashlight. Also micro light on key ring and 2 flashlights bag as well. I always block door at night with chair, besides locking it. This has worked well for me after 2 attempted home invasions-one at home and one at hotel. At times if more security is needed i use a portable motion detector. __________________ We deal in lead friend...

November 7, 2002, 03:13 AM	#27
fastbolt Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2002 Location: northern CA for a little while longer Posts: 1,931	This situation, as you've outlined it in a bare bones manner, is simply one of those unfortunate, sad and pathetic situations that nobody wants to see occur ... You shouldn't shoot what you can't see .... and you shouldn't shoot just because you're startled awake in "unusual" circumstances ... being in hostile jungle environments notwithstanding ... A hysterical family member running into the sleeping person's room to get help for some emergency reason, carrying some unexpected "tool" or article in their hands, isn't that far fetched for most large family homes ... Too many family members have been shot and killed by other family members who thought they were someone else who represented a "threat", and didn't see who they were shooting at ... "Bare fear alone" is insufficient to justify using deadly force. Other factors must be present. Like the man said, Stupidity should be painful ... But, since you shared, I'll share one that's always made me feel somewhat embarrassed, and ends on a lighter note ... Somewhere between 28-30 years ago, I was a young man visiting my out-of-town girlfriend (now wife) and her family for the weekend. I was sleeping in the back bedroom at the opposite end of the ranch-style house from everyone else ... of course ... I should explain that once I became of age, my dad had encouraged me to sleep safely with my .45, even at home, but especially while traveling ... My girlfriend didn't like guns, and her family didn't own any, but ... like me, accept my guns ... So, one morning, while I was sleeping very soundly and peacefully ... and quite safely, I might add ... In through the closed bedroom door burst my girlfriend and her mother, without any damned warning, shouting "They're landing in the back, in the corn bed! They're landing in the back! ..." and frantically pointing to the bedroom window which was closed, with the curtains drawn shut, but which faced the rear orchard. They're ?? landing ?? in the back ??? While I was bouncing up front a sound sleep ... I was much younger ... trying to make sense of what they were shouting, and the direction they were both pointing outside the window ... I heard the strangest loud, undulating humming and whooshing noise I'd ever heard. My cocked & locked Commander was in my hand before my feet hit the floor, and I was fuzzily trying to imagine what & who the hell would be landing in back of the house, making that god-awful weird noise, which I just then was able to orient on ... and I realized it was traveling overhead and moving slowly away from the house, and lower ... toward the orchard where the women were still frantically pointing ... and it sounded uncomfortably too close, like right outside. Wearing my underwear and my Commander, I threw open the curtains ... expecting ... what, I had no idea ... But it damn sure wasn't a crippled hot air balloon ... being followed on foot by a fair crowd of folks that had been following it to its unexpected emergency landing point ... merrily trampling the rows of corn in which the gondola had safely landed. Everybody was having such a damned fine time with all the excitement, I doubt they noticed the almost naked young man holding the .45 pistol at his side, looking out the window at the melee ... perplexed, and somewhat annoyed now that I was awake (I'm NOT a morning person under the best of circumstances) ... and also wondering what the hell my girlfriend and her mother found so entertaining suddenly ... Well, it was time to get up anyway, and it sure seemed like it wasn't going to get any quieter any time soon ...

November 7, 2002, 11:33 AM	#28
444 Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2000 Location: Ohio Posts: 3,968	This is an old thread, but I think it is a shame that no one commented on my post. I guess it wasn't a dramatic enough solution. There was no gun-store commando stuff involved. It was just the same low tech stuff that has worked for thousands of years. Something like this is just one more reason to have a dog. He will know if it is friend or foe long before you do, and without any flashlights or other hardware. He will be able to immediately sense the other persons intentions and if nessessary protect you from them. This will happen no matter who the other person is (family member gone crazy situation). We often have threads on here about investigating noises at night etc. This is a non-issue if you have a dog; he will know someone is there before they make a noise for you to hear. He will know even before the noise is made if this person is supposed to be there or not, he will know what their intentions are. House clearing ? Why, the dog took care of that without even moving.

November 7, 2002, 07:36 PM	#29
Drjones Senior Member Join Date: July 16, 2002 Posts: 1,239	444: you have a point, but this man was away from home. What, you're supposed to travel with guns AND dogs???

November 7, 2002, 08:53 PM	#30
444 Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2000 Location: Ohio Posts: 3,968	True enough, although I frequently do travel with my dog. That option of course is dependant on your host.