Another Colt Newb wedge question - Page 2

olyinaz · May 12, 2009, 10:58 AM

>>>This is how the wedge looks on an 1851 .36 that was made in 1862.<<<

That vintage Colt is LOVELY!

Cheers,
Oly

Poordevil · May 12, 2009, 10:45 PM

This is how the wedge looks on an 1851 .36 that was made in 1862. The barrel/frame connection is still very tight.

Well what do ye say? How do the modern repo Colts compare to the original? looks like you take that made in 1862 out shooting. Much difference between an original and a repo?

madcratebuilder · May 13, 2009, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Well what do ye say? How do the modern repo Colts compare to the original? looks like you take that made in 1862 out shooting. Much difference between an original and a repo?

The 2nd and 3rd gen Colts are near identical. On the originals the wedge was serial numbered to the gun, not so on 2nd and 3rd gen. The Italian repros are a very close copy, some makers closer than others.

Wrong

Fingers McGee · May 13, 2009, 11:04 AM

Quote:

The 2nd and 3rd gen Colts are near identical. On the originals the wedge was serial numbered to the gun, not so on 2nd and 3rd gen. The Italian repros are a very close copy, some makers closer than others

Au Contraire. Wedges for 2nd Gens are serial numbered. All 2nd Gens have SN on barrel, frame, loading lever, wedge, backstrap, trigger guard, and cylinder. Not 100% sure about the Sig Series guns; but I believe they are numbered the same.

madcratebuilder · May 13, 2009, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Au Contraire. Wedges for 2nd Gens are serial numbered. All 2nd Gens have SN on barrel, frame, loading lever, wedge, backstrap, trigger guard, and cylinder. Not 100% sure about the Sig Series guns; but I believe they are numbered the same.

Well I cleaned my glasses, wiped the grease of the bottom of the wedge and low and behold it is numbered! I checked my 3rd gens, they have the last three digits. I know I read that they are numbered, just a brain fart.

Good thing your here to keep on the straight and narrow.

Fingers McGee · May 13, 2009, 07:04 PM

Happy to be of service MCB. Just a little payback for you getting (stealing) the Cased Pocket Police.

I'm jealous.

broknprism · May 13, 2009, 07:16 PM

I just went through the wedge initiation yesterday with two Colts, and advice from a member of another forum was practical and effective -- use a wooden dowel to compress the wedge spring down and then tap. I knew I saw a lip on the spring, but everyone (but this one guy) said "just hit it hard." I didn't want to shear the lip off, since it serves a function, and the wooden dowel worked great.

And I just learned something here about the popsicle stick trick. Thanks!

Noz · May 15, 2009, 11:09 AM

I found a small hammer that has a hard rubber head on one side and a hard plastic head on the other. Neither will mar the finish on a barrel. A good smack with the rubber side will normally drive a stubborn wedge nearly through the barrel.
Two of the used guns that I have bought for a song because they were non shooters had the wedge driven in from the right. One guy used a lot of effort and apparently a big ball peen hammer. that one was in fact a non shooter. the arbor had been beaten loose by his driving the wedge in.

Nate1778 · May 15, 2009, 11:24 AM

I would like to pose a follow up question to my initial newb question.

How secure do you reinstall the wedge. Obviously your not hitting back in with the same force it took to pull the initial wedge. I have been using the butt end (wood) of a screwdriver and giving it two decent whacks. Nothing major and the handle does not have enough mass to really drive the pin. Does this sound about right. Or is simply pushing it back with the fingers OK.

mykeal · May 15, 2009, 04:15 PM

Success criteria for installing the wedge is to get between 0.006 and 0.010 clearance between the front of the cylinder and the barrel forcing cone. There's no special wedge position that achieves this goal, nor is the force required the same from gun to gun. Just push it in until there's very little room between the cylinder and the forcing cone.

AdmiralB · May 15, 2009, 08:13 PM

If you're worried about the wedge spring...just buy a pocket model. Their wedges don't have springs!

madcratebuilder · May 15, 2009, 09:44 PM

IMHO you should only have to use firm thumb pressure to seat the wedge. I don't believe in using the wedge to adjust the barrel/cylinder gap as some do. I believe the gap is controlled by the frame, barrel lug and arbor fit. If your using the wedge to close up the gap your tilting the barrel up. Most of the revolvers I have bought required work in the area to make them fit correct. Once that is accomplished you should not have any problems with the wedge.

Fingers McGee · May 15, 2009, 10:30 PM

Quote:

IMHO you should only have to use firm thumb pressure to seat the wedge. I don't believe in using the wedge to adjust the barrel/cylinder gap as some do. I believe the gap is controlled by the frame, barrel lug and arbor fit. If your using the wedge to close up the gap your tilting the barrel up. Most of the revolvers I have bought required work in the area to make them fit correct. Once that is accomplished you should not have any problems with the wedge.

+1

crstrode · May 16, 2009, 09:20 AM

Madcratebuilder wrote:

Quote:

IMHO you should only have to use firm thumb pressure to seat the wedge. I don't believe in using the wedge to adjust the barrel/cylinder gap as some do. I believe the gap is controlled by the frame, barrel lug and arbor fit. If your using the wedge to close up the gap your tilting the barrel up. Most of the revolvers I have bought required work in the area to make them fit correct. Once that is accomplished you should not have any problems with the wedge.

I agree with Mad Crate - almost.

I also usually just poke the wedge in with my thumb or with a rap from the heel of my hand - however - I do have one revolver that I can't do that with. The wedge spring on this one sticks up a lot and it is a real pain to even get the darned thing started in the barrel slot.

If the wedge is pulled completely out of the barrel slot, I've got to use a pair pf needle nose pliers to hold the spring down so it can be squeezed under the wedge screw.

I've got to tap it in with something more substantial than flesh and bone.

One of these days I'm going to bend it down and maybe stake it in by peening over the slot in the wedge a little bit.

alemonkey · May 16, 2009, 09:24 AM

Quote:

IMHO you should only have to use firm thumb pressure to seat the wedge. I don't believe in using the wedge to adjust the barrel/cylinder gap as some do. I believe the gap is controlled by the frame, barrel lug and arbor fit. If your using the wedge to close up the gap your tilting the barrel up. Most of the revolvers I have bought required work in the area to make them fit correct. Once that is accomplished you should not have any problems with the wedge.

Does anyone have a link, or would be willing to post info, on what needs to be done to adjust the gap?

mykeal · May 16, 2009, 08:18 PM

The cylinder to forcing cone gap is controlled by the barrel wedge; the further in, the smaller the gap. That being said, however, there is no single position that works best for every gun; each needs to be taken on it's own.

madcratebuilder · May 16, 2009, 10:42 PM

Quote:

The cylinder to forcing cone gap is controlled by the barrel wedge; the further in, the smaller the gap. That being said, however, there is no single position that works best for every gun; each needs to be taken on it's own.

I disagree sir. If you have a short arbor you can use the wedge to close up the barrel gap if it is excessive. If the arbor to barrel lug fit is correct and the frame length is correct then you well have the correct .007+/- barrel gap with out the wedge installed. The wedge is the secure the barrel to the arbor, nothing else.

Most c&b revolvers I have handled have a short arbor and the wedge well control the barrel gap but that does not make it correct. It does work and for many shooters it is the easiest solution.

mykeal · May 17, 2009, 06:16 AM

So I should do what - tell him the theory that doesn't work and ignore the reality that answers his question?

The question was how to adjust the gap. With the (quite rare) proper length arbor pin the method of adjustment is to either shim the frame at the locating pins on the bottom or shim/trim the arbor pin. I don't consider that a better answer.

Ed: In rereading the above it sounds flippant. I don't mean to be, so apologies if my tone is offensive.

madcratebuilder · May 17, 2009, 07:44 AM

Quote:

In rereading the above it sounds flippant. I don't mean to be, so apologies if my tone is offensive.

Apologies not needed sir.

For the average user the wedge is the easiest method. My point is that proper fitting is a better method. Lets say a different method. It does involve considerable hand fitting. I sometimes forget that some people do not care to do that, I find it one of the enjoyable parts of c&b ownership. I enjoy working on them as much as shooting them, OK I'm weird.

May 13, 2009, 07:04 PM	#31
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	Happy to be of service MCB. Just a little payback for you getting (stealing) the Cased Pocket Police. I'm jealous. __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce Last edited by Fingers McGee; May 13, 2009 at 10:27 PM.

May 15, 2009, 11:24 AM	#34
Nate1778 Senior Member Join Date: January 21, 2009 Location: Louisville Ky Posts: 312	I would like to pose a follow up question to my initial newb question. How secure do you reinstall the wedge. Obviously your not hitting back in with the same force it took to pull the initial wedge. I have been using the butt end (wood) of a screwdriver and giving it two decent whacks. Nothing major and the handle does not have enough mass to really drive the pin. Does this sound about right. Or is simply pushing it back with the fingers OK. __________________ "And finally, the Baby Bear looked and he said, "Somebody's sleeping in my bed, and the bastard's still there!" But Goldylocks had a Remington semi-automatic, with a scope and a hair-trigger!"

May 12, 2009, 10:58 AM	#26
olyinaz Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2009 Location: Arizona Posts: 877	>>>This is how the wedge looks on an 1851 .36 that was made in 1862.<<< That vintage Colt is LOVELY! Cheers, Oly

May 12, 2009, 10:45 PM	#27
Poordevil Junior Member Join Date: May 12, 2009 Location: Seattle Posts: 12	This is how the wedge looks on an 1851 .36 that was made in 1862. The barrel/frame connection is still very tight. Well what do ye say? How do the modern repo Colts compare to the original? looks like you take that made in 1862 out shooting. Much difference between an original and a repo?

May 13, 2009, 07:16 PM	#32
broknprism Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Posts: 28	I just went through the wedge initiation yesterday with two Colts, and advice from a member of another forum was practical and effective -- use a wooden dowel to compress the wedge spring down and then tap. I knew I saw a lip on the spring, but everyone (but this one guy) said "just hit it hard." I didn't want to shear the lip off, since it serves a function, and the wooden dowel worked great. And I just learned something here about the popsicle stick trick. Thanks!

May 15, 2009, 11:09 AM	#33
Noz Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Posts: 643	I found a small hammer that has a hard rubber head on one side and a hard plastic head on the other. Neither will mar the finish on a barrel. A good smack with the rubber side will normally drive a stubborn wedge nearly through the barrel. Two of the used guns that I have bought for a song because they were non shooters had the wedge driven in from the right. One guy used a lot of effort and apparently a big ball peen hammer. that one was in fact a non shooter. the arbor had been beaten loose by his driving the wedge in.

May 15, 2009, 04:15 PM	#35
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	Success criteria for installing the wedge is to get between 0.006 and 0.010 clearance between the front of the cylinder and the barrel forcing cone. There's no special wedge position that achieves this goal, nor is the force required the same from gun to gun. Just push it in until there's very little room between the cylinder and the forcing cone.

May 15, 2009, 08:13 PM	#36
AdmiralB Member Join Date: March 27, 2009 Posts: 88	If you're worried about the wedge spring...just buy a pocket model. Their wedges don't have springs!

May 15, 2009, 09:44 PM	#37
madcratebuilder Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2007 Location: Northern Orygun Posts: 4,923	IMHO you should only have to use firm thumb pressure to seat the wedge. I don't believe in using the wedge to adjust the barrel/cylinder gap as some do. I believe the gap is controlled by the frame, barrel lug and arbor fit. If your using the wedge to close up the gap your tilting the barrel up. Most of the revolvers I have bought required work in the area to make them fit correct. Once that is accomplished you should not have any problems with the wedge.

May 16, 2009, 08:18 PM	#41
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	The cylinder to forcing cone gap is controlled by the barrel wedge; the further in, the smaller the gap. That being said, however, there is no single position that works best for every gun; each needs to be taken on it's own.

May 17, 2009, 06:16 AM	#43
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	So I should do what - tell him the theory that doesn't work and ignore the reality that answers his question? The question was how to adjust the gap. With the (quite rare) proper length arbor pin the method of adjustment is to either shim the frame at the locating pins on the bottom or shim/trim the arbor pin. I don't consider that a better answer. Ed: In rereading the above it sounds flippant. I don't mean to be, so apologies if my tone is offensive.