.223 loads dissapointed accuracy - Page 2

oldpapps · September 18, 2012, 07:20 PM

"brokenanew

.223 loads dissapointed accuracy
I have been reloading for a bit now. I picked up some Varget, 75gr A-maxs, 69 SMKs and 60 Gr V-max for my Colt 6520 16" AR15 1:7 C MP

A-MAXs: I loaded 23.5-25.5(pressure signs w/ 25.5 (LC brass fed match primers) with .5 increments on the varget. Best group 1.6" but as large as 3"

69 SMKS: 24-25.5-.5 increments (Win brass Fed match Primers) best was 24.5gr 1.5" group with as large as 3"

60 gr V-max: 24- 25.5 -.5 increments (win Brass Fed Match primers) best was .9" with 25 Gr.

I felt good about the V-MAXs but was really disappointed in the other two. Is this acceptable accuracy for that particular rifle with those loads?
I guess deep down I was hoping to see consistent sub 1 MOA groups. My .308 remington VTR has spoiled me I guess. Averages .58" groups with my accurate loads.

Also I was given an old box of .308 mil ammo. Cases read 68 as in 1968!! they look something like 147 grainers to me. Are they safe to shoot in my rem 700? "

Nuff people talk'en/tell'en about your .223/5.56.

To the more important items, .308 /7.62 ammunition.
The head stamps, the number '68'. Is there anything else? Like 'LC' or 'TW' or 'W' or 'RA' and maybe a plus in a circle? Also it could have an orange tip, or green or black tipped bullet. If it does, the brass is most likely GI and with a colored bullet tip, it too would be GI. I wouldn't have any problem shooting it.

Enjoy,

OSOK

1stmar · September 19, 2012, 04:11 AM

What power scope you using?

brokenanew · September 23, 2012, 05:10 PM

well I have played with the seating depth and the types of powder. My rilfe just may not get along with the amaxs. Have tried anymore 69 SMKs but I think I will get some 75 gr (Horn) hpbt or 77gr (SMK) to try. But the BC on the A-maxs were so much higher. Was hoping they would work. O well.

But the 60gr V-max is a great 200yrds> bullet so i was happy that I could get sub 1 MOA results out of that one.

Any other suggestions for a long range bullet that might work?

the power of scope was a 30x. Not the scope I keep on it of course. But used it for the accuracy testing on a bench to test these loads.

OLD PAPPS the stamping is "TW" with the cross hair circle opposite of it.

oldpapps · September 23, 2012, 09:12 PM

"the stamping is "TW" with the cross hair circle opposite of it."

Twin Cities Ordnance Plant, Minneapolis, MN and NATO spec at that. Good stuff.
1968 vintage, a good year... Tet Offensive... Well, parts weren't that good.

Enjoy,

OSOK

brokenanew · October 7, 2012, 11:21 PM

Stnosc,
Ive served, so "playing soldier" is not my intention. Thanks
I'm trying a heavy high BC, heavy gr bullet BC I'm trying to develop a load that if I had to make a long shot w still some good punch, I could. Ive made a 3 bullet stack that attaches to my picatinny that will hold 3 rounds. So if I had too I would keep 3 rounds for just that purpose. chance of me every REALLY needing it, slim to none. But hey maybe if I find that load Ill do some long range plinking, uh?

My search continues...next up is the 77gr SMK. got some loaded with Varget and the others with rx15. Im not giving up yet. If these shoot even worse then Ill know for sure it just wont handle the heavier bullets.

Thanks for the info papps! Thats some cool info

Jimro · October 8, 2012, 12:53 AM

75 or 77 HPBT over 24 grains of Re15. It seems half the High Power shooters I know use that load. Wolf or CCI primers seem to work equally well depending on who you ask.

Jimro

Bart B. · October 8, 2012, 10:16 PM

The rifle and ammo's accuracy is best assesed by the largest groups fired and they include the repeatability (accuracy?) of the shooter, too. Those happen when all the variables are at their limits. The tiny ones happen only when either all the variables cancel out each other or are at their zero point. Biggest group sizes are what you can count on all the time. Tiny ones only about 5% of the time; usually much less.

brokenanew · October 15, 2012, 05:26 PM

Finally some results!!

Just thought id update. Went to the range today to see how the 77gr SMK would fair.

22.5gr Rx15-LC brass, O give measured, Fed Match prime: .284"!

24 gr Varget- Same: .415"
4-shot groups....whaaaaaaaaaaa

Though these were only one group each to test powder charges. Ill see what they average after i reload some more up

My 60grVmax did the usual sub MOA -.7"
POI? 60 grVmax and my blinking 55grainers shoot about an 1"-1.5" to the right of the 77 SMK
Finally found my load that will likely get me those long shots for that pencil barreled chrome lined 16" AR-15

rebs · October 15, 2012, 08:08 PM

I have a 1 in8 R5 rifling in my AR and use only 55 gr bullets.
Hornady 55 gr flat base soft points
Hornady 55 gr fmjbt
Dogtown 55 gr soft points and they all shoot very accurate with H335 powder.
I would suggest you try H335 powder.

A_Gamehog · October 15, 2012, 10:39 PM

From: Ed.Harris@
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: .223 Contender loads
Keywords: reloading, .223 Remington
Date: 6 Aug 90 18:45:46 GMT

I have found that in just about any .223 rifle or handgun of any twist
that a charge of 22 grs. of either Hodgdon or Dupont 4198 with any
bullet from 50 to 55 grs. is reliable and accurate. I like the Hornady
50-gr. SX bullets for woodchucks, and use the 53-gr. Sierra benchrest
bullets for punching paper. I have found these are about universal
loads and shoot in anything. I have found it groups better in the 7"
twist AR-15 HBAR than 69-gr. MatchKings, and it is an effective
competition benchrest load in my light varmint class guns with 14"
twist Hart barrels. In the TC I would not be afraid to shoot the
"para-military" commercial ammo of US make, such as the Olin-USA or
Federal American Eagle, but I would be a bit cautious of foreign or US
military issue ammo, because it is loaded to alot higher pressures. A
few rounds won't hurt, but lot of them may loosen up the gun if it has
a SAAMI-type .223 Rem. chamber. If you can seat out a 53-gr. Sierra to
2.29" overall length and get the barrel locked, it has essentiually the
military style ball seat, and should be safe if you get no other
pressure signs, but if Sierra bullets seated to that OAL jam in the
rifling origin or are visible marked in a used barrel when you close
the action with resistance, you probably have a SAAMI-tyle chamber and
the NATO loads will produce higher pressures than the gun was designed
for. The TC works OK with small cases up to about 50,000 cup, but real
GI ammo in a snug SAAMI chamber will often do 60,000+, and you don't
want to loosen the gun prematurely by shooting "near proof" loads in
it.

--

browninghunter86 · October 16, 2012, 02:04 AM

Give 8208 XBR a try too if you ever want to experiment further. Great powder and works with 308 and 223 cal

CS86 · October 16, 2012, 08:37 AM

I second on a different powder. Something faster burning that varget for a 16" barrel. It sounds like others have had good luck with varget and shorter barrels, but just my thought, I don't think varget in an AR and 16" barrel would mate up very well.

brokenanew · October 18, 2012, 01:26 PM

The 8208 has been suggested a few times. I plan on giving that shot as well. I was told that Varget can be stored for a while. I was told to look at faster burning powders as well but honestly at this point Im really happy. My hunt load of 60gr V-max shots about a .8" average group and the 77GR SMK is averaging .48" grouping. These are really good in my book with a chromelines 16" penicl barrel. and

A_Gamehog. Its a Colt 6520. I believe its milspec and can handle the 5.56 mil ammo without problems. I know Ive shot some without any pressure signs or problems. In fact the upper/Barrel is labeled, 5.56.

browninghunter86 · October 18, 2012, 04:39 PM

those group sizes are good for just about any application other than 1000 yrd benchrest. Geez

Good loads it sounds like

mohr308 · October 21, 2012, 08:23 AM

If your shooting these from an AR, first thing I would do is switch the primer. match primers could cause you to have a slam fire and damage something in your rifle, or hurt someone! I would suggest the CCI 41 primer, it's a military primer made for gas guns which require a higher pressure to cycle. I greatly improved my accuracy with those primers in my AR. one more thing, faster burning powders (other than Varget) work better for my accuracy and cycling of the rifle. I use the standard COL for all my reloads 2.250"-2.260" max unless a shorter length is called for.

brokenanew · October 23, 2012, 03:44 PM

rebs, Ive used H335 before. It fairs well but is impossible to get around my area
Mohr, good advice, Ill try some primers better suited for that AR. Though I havent had a slam fire once, I dont want there to be a first time.

jeffreyulatan · October 23, 2012, 04:02 PM

With 69gr HP loads I usually load at the max OAL 2.260, and accuracy is almost perfect.

This is my load
25gr of W748
2.260 OAL
69gr HPBT

brokenanew · October 25, 2012, 10:49 AM

Jeffery check my first post. Those 69 gainers did not like my rifle. In fact I sitll have a half full box that I don't know what to do with... waiting for next gun show in my area to see if I can trade them off as well as some other things Im not going to use.

60v-max and 77 SMKs are the only bullets that have thus far shot sub-moa for me. Ive tried a few others not mentioned.

October 8, 2012, 12:53 AM	#31
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	75 or 77 HPBT over 24 grains of Re15. It seems half the High Power shooters I know use that load. Wolf or CCI primers seem to work equally well depending on who you ask. Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

October 15, 2012, 10:39 PM	#35
A_Gamehog Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2009 Location: Central Oregun Posts: 563	Wisdom from 1990 and Ed Harris it pertains to your 1-7 twist 223. From: Ed.Harris@ Newsgroups: rec.guns Subject: .223 Contender loads Keywords: reloading, .223 Remington Date: 6 Aug 90 18:45:46 GMT I have found that in just about any .223 rifle or handgun of any twist that a charge of 22 grs. of either Hodgdon or Dupont 4198 with any bullet from 50 to 55 grs. is reliable and accurate. I like the Hornady 50-gr. SX bullets for woodchucks, and use the 53-gr. Sierra benchrest bullets for punching paper. I have found these are about universal loads and shoot in anything. I have found it groups better in the 7" twist AR-15 HBAR than 69-gr. MatchKings, and it is an effective competition benchrest load in my light varmint class guns with 14" twist Hart barrels. In the TC I would not be afraid to shoot the "para-military" commercial ammo of US make, such as the Olin-USA or Federal American Eagle, but I would be a bit cautious of foreign or US military issue ammo, because it is loaded to alot higher pressures. A few rounds won't hurt, but lot of them may loosen up the gun if it has a SAAMI-type .223 Rem. chamber. If you can seat out a 53-gr. Sierra to 2.29" overall length and get the barrel locked, it has essentiually the military style ball seat, and should be safe if you get no other pressure signs, but if Sierra bullets seated to that OAL jam in the rifling origin or are visible marked in a used barrel when you close the action with resistance, you probably have a SAAMI-tyle chamber and the NATO loads will produce higher pressures than the gun was designed for. The TC works OK with small cases up to about 50,000 cup, but real GI ammo in a snug SAAMI chamber will often do 60,000+, and you don't want to loosen the gun prematurely by shooting "near proof" loads in it. -- __________________ "Happiness is knowing the Barred Owl is Eating the Spotted Owl and environmentalists are watching Nature take it's course"

October 21, 2012, 08:23 AM	#40
mohr308 Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2012 Location: Western New York Posts: 466	broken anew If your shooting these from an AR, first thing I would do is switch the primer. match primers could cause you to have a slam fire and damage something in your rifle, or hurt someone! I would suggest the CCI 41 primer, it's a military primer made for gas guns which require a higher pressure to cycle. I greatly improved my accuracy with those primers in my AR. one more thing, faster burning powders (other than Varget) work better for my accuracy and cycling of the rifle. I use the standard COL for all my reloads 2.250"-2.260" max unless a shorter length is called for. __________________ Lock and load, the zombies (democrats) are coming (to take your guns)!

September 18, 2012, 07:20 PM	#26
oldpapps Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2011 Location: Middle America Posts: 518	"brokenanew .223 loads dissapointed accuracy I have been reloading for a bit now. I picked up some Varget, 75gr A-maxs, 69 SMKs and 60 Gr V-max for my Colt 6520 16" AR15 1:7 C MP A-MAXs: I loaded 23.5-25.5(pressure signs w/ 25.5 (LC brass fed match primers) with .5 increments on the varget. Best group 1.6" but as large as 3" 69 SMKS: 24-25.5-.5 increments (Win brass Fed match Primers) best was 24.5gr 1.5" group with as large as 3" 60 gr V-max: 24- 25.5 -.5 increments (win Brass Fed Match primers) best was .9" with 25 Gr. I felt good about the V-MAXs but was really disappointed in the other two. Is this acceptable accuracy for that particular rifle with those loads? I guess deep down I was hoping to see consistent sub 1 MOA groups. My .308 remington VTR has spoiled me I guess. Averages .58" groups with my accurate loads. Also I was given an old box of .308 mil ammo. Cases read 68 as in 1968!! they look something like 147 grainers to me. Are they safe to shoot in my rem 700? " Nuff people talk'en/tell'en about your .223/5.56. To the more important items, .308 /7.62 ammunition. The head stamps, the number '68'. Is there anything else? Like 'LC' or 'TW' or 'W' or 'RA' and maybe a plus in a circle? Also it could have an orange tip, or green or black tipped bullet. If it does, the brass is most likely GI and with a colored bullet tip, it too would be GI. I wouldn't have any problem shooting it. Enjoy, OSOK

September 19, 2012, 04:11 AM	#27
1stmar Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,378	What power scope you using?

September 23, 2012, 05:10 PM	#28
brokenanew Member Join Date: September 14, 2012 Posts: 83	well I have played with the seating depth and the types of powder. My rilfe just may not get along with the amaxs. Have tried anymore 69 SMKs but I think I will get some 75 gr (Horn) hpbt or 77gr (SMK) to try. But the BC on the A-maxs were so much higher. Was hoping they would work. O well. But the 60gr V-max is a great 200yrds> bullet so i was happy that I could get sub 1 MOA results out of that one. Any other suggestions for a long range bullet that might work? the power of scope was a 30x. Not the scope I keep on it of course. But used it for the accuracy testing on a bench to test these loads. OLD PAPPS the stamping is "TW" with the cross hair circle opposite of it.

September 23, 2012, 09:12 PM	#29
oldpapps Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2011 Location: Middle America Posts: 518	"the stamping is "TW" with the cross hair circle opposite of it." Twin Cities Ordnance Plant, Minneapolis, MN and NATO spec at that. Good stuff. 1968 vintage, a good year... Tet Offensive... Well, parts weren't that good. Enjoy, OSOK

October 7, 2012, 11:21 PM	#30
brokenanew Member Join Date: September 14, 2012 Posts: 83	Stnosc, Ive served, so "playing soldier" is not my intention. Thanks I'm trying a heavy high BC, heavy gr bullet BC I'm trying to develop a load that if I had to make a long shot w still some good punch, I could. Ive made a 3 bullet stack that attaches to my picatinny that will hold 3 rounds. So if I had too I would keep 3 rounds for just that purpose. chance of me every REALLY needing it, slim to none. But hey maybe if I find that load Ill do some long range plinking, uh? My search continues...next up is the 77gr SMK. got some loaded with Varget and the others with rx15. Im not giving up yet. If these shoot even worse then Ill know for sure it just wont handle the heavier bullets. Thanks for the info papps! Thats some cool info

October 8, 2012, 10:16 PM	#32
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	The rifle and ammo's accuracy is best assesed by the largest groups fired and they include the repeatability (accuracy?) of the shooter, too. Those happen when all the variables are at their limits. The tiny ones happen only when either all the variables cancel out each other or are at their zero point. Biggest group sizes are what you can count on all the time. Tiny ones only about 5% of the time; usually much less.

October 15, 2012, 05:26 PM	#33
brokenanew Member Join Date: September 14, 2012 Posts: 83	Finally some results!! Just thought id update. Went to the range today to see how the 77gr SMK would fair. 22.5gr Rx15-LC brass, O give measured, Fed Match prime: .284"! 24 gr Varget- Same: .415" 4-shot groups....whaaaaaaaaaaa Though these were only one group each to test powder charges. Ill see what they average after i reload some more up My 60grVmax did the usual sub MOA -.7" POI? 60 grVmax and my blinking 55grainers shoot about an 1"-1.5" to the right of the 77 SMK Finally found my load that will likely get me those long shots for that pencil barreled chrome lined 16" AR-15

October 15, 2012, 08:08 PM	#34
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	I have a 1 in8 R5 rifling in my AR and use only 55 gr bullets. Hornady 55 gr flat base soft points Hornady 55 gr fmjbt Dogtown 55 gr soft points and they all shoot very accurate with H335 powder. I would suggest you try H335 powder.

October 16, 2012, 02:04 AM	#36
browninghunter86 Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2011 Posts: 524	Give 8208 XBR a try too if you ever want to experiment further. Great powder and works with 308 and 223 cal

October 16, 2012, 08:37 AM	#37
CS86 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2012 Location: South Dakota Posts: 224	I second on a different powder. Something faster burning that varget for a 16" barrel. It sounds like others have had good luck with varget and shorter barrels, but just my thought, I don't think varget in an AR and 16" barrel would mate up very well.

October 18, 2012, 01:26 PM	#38
brokenanew Member Join Date: September 14, 2012 Posts: 83	The 8208 has been suggested a few times. I plan on giving that shot as well. I was told that Varget can be stored for a while. I was told to look at faster burning powders as well but honestly at this point Im really happy. My hunt load of 60gr V-max shots about a .8" average group and the 77GR SMK is averaging .48" grouping. These are really good in my book with a chromelines 16" penicl barrel. and A_Gamehog. Its a Colt 6520. I believe its milspec and can handle the 5.56 mil ammo without problems. I know Ive shot some without any pressure signs or problems. In fact the upper/Barrel is labeled, 5.56.

October 18, 2012, 04:39 PM	#39
browninghunter86 Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2011 Posts: 524	those group sizes are good for just about any application other than 1000 yrd benchrest. Geez Good loads it sounds like

October 23, 2012, 03:44 PM	#41
brokenanew Member Join Date: September 14, 2012 Posts: 83	rebs, Ive used H335 before. It fairs well but is impossible to get around my area Mohr, good advice, Ill try some primers better suited for that AR. Though I havent had a slam fire once, I dont want there to be a first time.

October 23, 2012, 04:02 PM	#42
jeffreyulatan Member Join Date: October 22, 2012 Location: Guam Posts: 47	With 69gr HP loads I usually load at the max OAL 2.260, and accuracy is almost perfect. This is my load 25gr of W748 2.260 OAL 69gr HPBT

October 25, 2012, 10:49 AM	#43
brokenanew Member Join Date: September 14, 2012 Posts: 83	Jeffery check my first post. Those 69 gainers did not like my rifle. In fact I sitll have a half full box that I don't know what to do with... waiting for next gun show in my area to see if I can trade them off as well as some other things Im not going to use. 60v-max and 77 SMKs are the only bullets that have thus far shot sub-moa for me. Ive tried a few others not mentioned.