Is the Mosin Nagant still worth it?

[reynolds357]

No Mosin, including that one, has ever interested me. Lipstick on a pig.

[deerslayer303]

I have a few of them in as issued trim. I like them very much and would never Sporterize them. Even when the prices were down a 300 dollar 710 Remington would shoot better than any Mosin I could cook up.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[Mobuck]

Was it ever?????? The only reason they made the jump into the 20th century was the Ruskies lack of funds and/or innovative skills to upgrade.

[tobnpr]

TKIV-85, halfway down the page:
http://www.elisanet.fi/gliderpilot/maanpuolustus.htm

Olympic Competitions, pre-1978 when changed to rimfire:

http://onlygunsandmoney.blogspot.com...-could-be.html

Finns: M28/76 Marksmanship Rifle

Soviets: 6.5 x 54R MN (note how the bolt handle has been moved to the rear of the bolt body:


But the haters; will always hate when they're ignorant- sending cheap surplus ammo downrange, in a military stock that's as loose as a three dolla ***- and wondering why it's "inaccurate".

So, I'm happy to put my money where my mouth is.
Anyone in Central FL- 600 yards, my MN with original military barrel (ETA- cut/recrowned with brake), against any bone stock 700 or other rifle under $750 retail. Tightest 5-shot group out of three attempts. $100...

Put up, or shutup...

[deerslayer303]

^^ Crickets

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[reynolds357]

If you are in North Ga. I will take you up at 1k yds. The deal will be rifles with equal amounts of customization. You have an orig barrel, but what else has been done to the rifle. I have a 700 that I have less than $750 in that Is up for the challenge. I don't count my time in the machine shop into the dollar equation. Some of the Mosin's still have excellent barrels. My friend has 4 crates of Mosin sniper rifles that have pristine bores when we cleaned them up and scoped them. I have no doubt I could turn most of those into tack drives if I took them to the machine shop. The deal I would shoot under would be "equal amounts of custom work."

[Model12Win]

The Mosin is a chunk of low-quality commie pot metal slapped to an even lower-quality 2x4 slathered with an old sock dipped in radioactive shellac made for millions of illiterate mentally challenged (read: stupid) conscripts who were being sent to their deaths in massive human wave charges. That's all it is and ever will be. To even consider it even remotely close in performance to an aught three Springer or even a Kraut Mauser is just laughable at best.

Are the Nagant fanboys mad yet?

Really though, I was in to them as a kid and found myself with several over the years. But, I found myself just not enjoying them at the range, regardless of how cheap spam cans of ammo were at the time. I've since sold them off to the mouth breathing collectors and used the cash to buy guns that I actually like and that were actually worth owning.

[deerslayer303]

^^^ REALLY Model12? You forget some of us remember your posts. Here is one of yours from just 2 months ago on another thread.
"Rich: get one now, while you still can.<br />
<br />
They are getting harder and more expensive to find. And trust me, when you start kicking those giant fireballs down range you will be in love! The carbines are SO fun!! "

Sounds to me like you were a fan boy just 2 months ago. Flip Flop much? Or do you just go with the flavor of the day? I guess you sold all 5 of your "commie pot metal". For you to praise a gun on one thread then come on another and bash those who like the rifles for what they are on another is pure BS. And YES I do consider some Mosins Right up there with ANY countries best Military Service Rifle.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[Gunplummer]

I am old enough to remember when the ammo was unavailable, other than RWS and Norma. The Russian rifle was the one left on the table at the end of the auction. The Russian rifle was in that group of guns that nobody made after market stuff for. The Russian rifle was the one that had dangerous caliber conversions done just to be able to shoot it. The Russian rifle WAS around in the hay day of cheap sporter deer rifles, but was never used. The .303 British and 30-40 Krag are both rimmed cartridge guns, the difference being ammunition availability. You would see no end to them in the deer woods. I saw a lot of Carcanos and Arisakas in the deer woods. The amazing thing is you could not get ammunition for them either. Somewhere out there is a Russian rifle chambered in 30-40 Krag, with a Mauser Timney trigger reworked to fit and a Remington bolt BEHIND the filled in receiver bridge. It was like walking around with a '57 Pontiac axle all day. I think I got a whopping $250 for it. The OP wanted a cheap rifle to turn into a hunting rifle. If he bought one and used it as is, it would be OK. To start "Building" a cheap sporter is nothing but a money pit with a Russian bolt action.

[Targa]

Aahhh yes, good catch Deerslayer, looks like Model12win was also a stupid mouth breather not to long ago....lol.

[tahunua001]

ok even though I really don't want to derail this thread I'm going to pick apart model12's post as well.

low-quality commie pot metal

I think you need to really rethink what pot metal is. usually pot metal contains a large amount of tin, and such. walther P22s that melt and warp if you rapid fire them for extended periods of time are pot metal, there is not a single military rifle that was used by a major world power in the last 200 years which has used it.

slapped to an even lower-quality 2x4

interesting, as critical as I am about the construction and crude design of the mosin nagant, the stock is by far the best feature of the rifle, it's long, narrow, and heavy, perfectly designed to handle the recoil of the rifle. it's the most rounded(AKA, least 2x4 ish) of the military rifles of it's time. I think the M1 garand gets the disinction of being the blockiest, 2x4iest of the WWII era rifles.

slathered with an old sock dipped in radioactive shellac

the battery in the phone that you regularly press to your face is radioactive, the iodine in the salt on your french fries is radioactive, the sunlight that you walk through when you get your mail is radioactive and causes a lot more cancer than has ever been linked to shellac.

made for millions of illiterate mentally challenged

you really need to pick up a book. my first suggestion would be one explaining the difference between mental handicaps and illiteracy. here's a rough definition of the difference. mentally challenged refers to a person who has difficulty assimilating information whether it be social, educational, or biological in nature. illiterate means that a person lacks the benefit of proper educational facilities and resources. to bring an old adage that once served as my signature line here until I was told people were offended but I think it's pretty appropriate in this setting, "ignorance is correctable, stupid aint".

To even consider it even remotely close in performance to an aught three Springer or even a Kraut Mauser is just laughable at best.

I don't know that I have seen any such comparison in this thread made by anyone other than you. of course the quality of rifles made by nations who weren't pressured and under attack on their own turf are higher quality, have you seen the difference between an arisaka made in 1939 compared to one made in 1945?


now, with all that said, all of my original comments in this thread still stand. there are much better ways for the money. am I telling nobody to get one? not really, they're still the easiest milsurp to get your hands on, even if the bulk ammo is gone and the junkier ones still sell for over $200. I just don't think that they can be turned into anything that they are not, and all they were ever built to be was a pike that can shoot bullets, and not much else. now some countries refined them into much more, like the finns who worked the ergos, did more polish work, and had way higher requirements for accuracy than russia did, but that's a matter of fixing the design in a factory, rather than on someone's workbench next to the weedeater and the kid's bicycle.

[Gunplummer]

Not so much a quality issue, as a design issue. The lock up is great and the lugs are massive. BUT, they simply do not lend themselves to deer rifle/sporter conversions very easily (Or cheaply). You want to see foreign made junk? The Japanese produced a "Last ditch" rifle with a cast iron receiver. Not to be confused with late production rifles commonly called Last Ditch rifles. They are now quite rare. To give a final answer to the OP. No.

[tahunua001]

from what I've read the cast iron rifles were never intended for front line action and were used as training aids.

[Josh Smith]

I'm going to say that "it depends."

Pre-WWII Mosins are excellent quality firearms. No, they're not the most up-to-date design, but neither are Mauser actions.

The reason they've not been more popular in the past is due to the nature of the ammo: It was hard to get because it was Communist at the time. Trade was not happening. Therefore, the Allies' weapons and those of conquered nations were used much more.

Speaking of ammo, the strength of the rifle wasn't the issue with rechambering. The length of the .30-06 round was the issue. It extended past the chamber area of the Mosin's barrel and into an area that wasn't designed to contain the pressure.

Shorter high pressure rounds were fine, 8x57mm being a prime example of a chambering actually used by a military. In fact, if I recall, the 7.62x54r's pressures were slightly higher than the .30-06 of the same period. I could be remembering wrong, but I don't think so.

The Mosin was the AK of the bolt-action world; the Mauser/1903 Springfield was the AR. The Mosin, I believe, is a much simpler, more robust design.

Properly blueprinted Mosins with comparable ammo will shoot right up there with the Mauser and 1903.

The biggest difference is the bolt design. The Brits were still using rimmed rounds, so we can't really say the round was obsolete, unless we say too that the .303 was obsolete. They both worked.

The Mosin and M1917 "American Enfield" are still both in service, the latter by the Danes, so we have both the Mannlicher-style bolt and Mauser-style bolt in service.

No, it's not about what rifle is "better". It's about what you want to do with it and selecting the proper platform.

I use my pet Mosin out to 200 yards on coyotes when needed, with open sights. Here, 100 yards is a long shot. I'm after the power and acceptable precision, which a proper Mosin has.

I handload:





If I were shooting further regularly, I would choose an action on which to build a precision rifle with ballistics similar to the .25-06. It would likely be based on the Mauser, though I'd want a push-feed design -- just my preference.

The rifle would also be filled with forged/machined parts. I am not a fan of MIM.

So, that's my stance: Robust rifle and iron sights = Mosin's fine. It laughs at abuse. Plenty inexpensive upgrades out there: two-stage triggers, sights, bent bolts, etc.

Long range shooting = get something with a full bridge and 'scope it out.

Regards,

Josh

[Gunplummer]

tahunaoo1, What you are reading is wrong. The true last ditch rifles were actually a different design. I think only the navy ordered them, but is the end of the war so who knows. They are really rare, I have only seen one complete one. Once and a while a barrel pops up. The lock up was similar to the M-16. I had training rifles and they were not much more than cap guns.

[Gunplummer]

Mr. Smith, You do not know what you are talking about. The Moisin Nagant is like the military rifle of the French world. I have a French rifle from WWI. I have been at the range many times and people mistake it for Russian. " A much simpler, robust design". Apparently you have never machined parts for guns. Like everything else, they "Borrowed" the idea. Many other military rifles used for sporters were tough to get ammo for years ago, but people still used them. Face the facts. Russian bolt guns just are not good rifles to turn into deer rifles. I am probably one of the few people on this forum that actually has killed a deer with an open sighted Russian bolt action. It was a money thing at the time and nothing else. I would grab a lever action before a Russian bolt gun.

[Gunplummer]

Mr. Smith, You do not know what you are talking about. The Moisin Nagant is like the military rifle of the French world. I have a French rifle from WWI. I have been at the range many times and people mistake it for Russian. That is probably where the 8MM chambering rumor came from. Like everything else, they "Borrowed" the idea. Many other military rifles used for sporters were tough to get ammo for years ago, but people still used them. Face the facts. Russian bolt guns just are not good rifles to turn into deer rifles. I am probably one of the few people on this forum that actually has killed a deer with an open sighted Russian bolt action. It was a money thing at the time and nothing else.

[Old Bill Dibble]

You can buy a brand new Remington 783 with scope in .30-06 for $279 at Academy. It will be more accurate, easier to feed ammo, more weather resistant, handier, more powerful and much easier to hunt with. You can also get a .308 if you want less power and recoil. It will be extremely reliable.

Given that it comes with a scope, recoil pad, warranty I don't see a solid argument for the Mosin as a cheap hunting gun anymore.

[TMD]

Six or seven years ago when one of my local big box stores sold them for $95 I though they were over priced junk but I bought one anyways. I then got online and picked up a 440 round tin of ammo for $80. I never took the rifle out of the box, just stuck it in the corner of my closet and forgot about it. Last year when I moved I decided to get rid of it because all it was doing was taking up space. More than doubled my $$$..... Just proved that there's a fool for every trigger.

[Josh Smith]

Originally Posted by Gunplummer

Mr. Smith, You do not know what you are talking about. The Moisin Nagant is like the military rifle of the French world. I have a French rifle from WWI. I have been at the range many times and people mistake it for Russian. " A much simpler, robust design". Apparently you have never machined parts for guns. Like everything else, they "Borrowed" the idea. Many other military rifles used for sporters were tough to get ammo for years ago, but people still used them. Face the facts. Russian bolt guns just are not good rifles to turn into deer rifles. I am probably one of the few people on this forum that actually has killed a deer with an open sighted Russian bolt action. It was a money thing at the time and nothing else. I would grab a lever action before a Russian bolt gun.

Gunplummer,

It's very apparent, sir, that you have no idea what you're talking about.

The Polish Wz91/98/25 "Blindee Conversion" was fielded by that military. You're welcome to look it up.

Far from rumor.

Let's address this error and we'll take care of the others later. I think next we'll address the bolt; how the Mosin bolt is similar to the Gewehr 88 is similar Mauser 71 is similar to the Mannlicher is similar to the Berdan II, et cetera.

To say that a person does not know what he's talking about without giving proof to substantiate the claim is beyond rude.

Josh

[Model12Win]

More than doubled my $$$..... Just proved that there's a fool for every trigger.

Yup I agree. I easily made 25-50% profits from selling off the small lot of Mosins I had accumulated over what I paid for them new, and that was just from a few years ago. For whatever reason people still really want these guns.

I used to be like that, I thought they were interesting. But after experiencing better designs and just stepping back and looking at the rifles as rifles, I came to dislike them. Like I said they are no fun to shoot at the range (for me) and I just had no use for them.

I am absolutely not a collector, I've found most Mosin Nagant collectors to be very unwelcoming and "cliquey". To be a "good collector" you have to have a ton of these rifles, preferably rare and expensive varieties. It's a game where it's always about who has the most rifles and who can take the prettiest pictures of them to brag about on the internet. I didn't get sucked up in that stupid game, and found the whole notion of accumulating a bunch of lackluster obsolete communist battle rifles just to say "look what I got!" to other people on the internet off-putting.

I buy guns to shoot them. With that and prices of 7.62x54mmR ammo being so high (now higher than .308 Win), just what was I accomplishing? That's when I snapped out of it... that's when I realized the Mosin Nagant wasn't as cool as I originally thought, and in this day and age it's old appeal of cheap prices and even cheaper ammo is long gone.

So that's me explaining myself to all the people above. I woke up from the Mosin Nagant dream.

JMHO.

YMMV.

[Targa]

Yeh good job, in three weeks you went from praising the Mosin to now calling out people as stupid for buying them. You would make a great politician.

[2ndsojourn]

All the talk about Mosins on this site almost had me buy one because I was getting tired of being the only guy who didn't have one. Now I don't feel so bad about not having one. Thanks guys.

[reynolds357]

Model12, the Mosin is the finest battle club known to man. There has never been a better rifle, manufactured in the history of warfare, at beating your enemy in the head with. The reach out and touch someone value of the Mosin Battle Club is unrivaled. Just think, most (not all) Mosins are the finest examples of what starving, beaten, imprisoned, slave labor could turn out with worn out tolls they had no motivation to operate properly.

[Erno86]

I own three M91-30's...one is a 1943 Izzy sniper rifle with a 3.5x PU scope --- It shoots 1 3/4" m.o.a. three shot group @ 100 yards, with Russian 7N1 sniper ammo. I love the history of the rifle....and when I proudly have it uncased at the range, I'll occasionally wonder how many battles it's been in and how many Nazis have been KIA with it.