The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The North Corral > Curios and Relics

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old October 2, 2012, 10:06 AM   #1
chiefr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2010
Location: AR
Posts: 1,401
Things you dislike to see on milsurps

I have gone to many gunshow over the years to include a huge one recently in Dallas Texas. Never could resist the urge to examine the milsurps as I made my way around. As I examined many milsurps, several things always turned me off:

1. Sporterization: I have seen outstanding custom quality sporters, however what irks me is seeing the original stock cut and sanded and the front sight cut off. Then the guy wants the same price for his prize as if the gun was in its original military condition. A dealer I know calls these "Bubba jobs"

2. Crests ground off

3. Importers marks. Sure I understand laws, but why such large conspicuous letters on the slide, the receiver, or the frame. I always appreciated when importers places their marks inconspicuously near the end of the barrel or other inconspicuous places.

I was curious if any of you have similar thoughts.
chiefr is offline  
Old October 2, 2012, 12:09 PM   #2
Cheapshooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 2007
Location: Missouri
Posts: 8,306
The most egregious of the three to me is the Bubbaed up rifle. Yes, in days gone there were some fine custom sporters built on military surplus rifles. But at the time it was an economical advantage to do so. Now there are plenty of excellent commercial guns to choose from. Then you have the ones that "Bubba" decided to customize in his garage shop with a hacksaw, and file. Unfortunately that still happens all to often today. At least most of it now is being done on Mosin Nagant 91-30'a that are as about abundant as bunnies on Easter. Or "add on", replacement parts for an SKS that can be taken off to restore them to original.

As far as the ground crest, not much can be done about that. As countries fell, and regimes changed political powers removed symbols of the previous times. When you think about it, it's actually part of the gun's history.

The import marks are, as you said, required. But for collectors some importers could be more discrete. Although all my milsurps are bought as shooters, and used as such they really don't bother me all that much.
__________________
Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!
Cheapshooter is offline  
Old October 2, 2012, 12:14 PM   #3
doofus47
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 9, 2010
Location: live in a in a house when i'm not in a tent
Posts: 2,483
Rust.
Most of the other stuff I can live with. I figure that a sportered or bubba'd up rifle was put into it franken-config by someone who wanted to be more comfortable while shooting it. I'm good with that. A rifle that is hung and rusts quietly... that makes me shake my head.
__________________
I'm right about the metric system 3/4 of the time.
doofus47 is offline  
Old October 2, 2012, 05:51 PM   #4
chiefr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2010
Location: AR
Posts: 1,401
One milsurp I often see bubba'd is the 1917 Enfields. At the last gunshow I went to, I say two complete original Eddystones. There were 5 others which had either cut down stocks, upper handguards removed, front sight mods or other modifications. Several years ago, I saw one where someone tried to grind off the entire rear sight guard "wings".
chiefr is offline  
Old October 3, 2012, 08:30 AM   #5
jsmaye
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2008
Location: Amarillo, Tx
Posts: 616
Anything that attempts to render it "tactical". It's a rifle. It's a pistol. It's already 'tactical'.
__________________
No matter how big and tough you are, when a two-year-old hands you a toy phone you'll answer it.
jsmaye is offline  
Old October 4, 2012, 02:36 PM   #6
doofus47
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 9, 2010
Location: live in a in a house when i'm not in a tent
Posts: 2,483
jsmaye
Quote:
Anything that attempts to render it "tactical".
Ok, +1 to that. Tactical is just tacky...
__________________
I'm right about the metric system 3/4 of the time.
doofus47 is offline  
Old October 4, 2012, 03:32 PM   #7
meatgrinder42
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2011
Location: Good Ol' Wisconsin
Posts: 327
Crest grinding has never really bothered me, a lot of countries did that before the rifles left the arsenals. The biggest one that comes to mind are the Argentine Mausers, a lot of them (I'd be willing to say at least 75%) had the crests taken off the receiver by the Argentine military.

I will +1 the tactical garbage, I'm sorry there is no such thing as a tactical Mosin Nagant M44... It may pain people to read this but it's true...

My biggest pet peeve on surplus rifles is people letting them rot... I've seen some pretty awful 'sporterized' rifles in my day... I'm talking I don't even know what it started as. But usually the people keep them up because they either hunt with them or try to make a target gun from them. What I hate is grandpa passing on his Kar98 capture that he brought back to his grandson who lets it sit in the corner of the untreated basement or in the attic...
__________________
When I die better bury me deep, two .45s layin' at my feet,
An M16 across my chest, tell Chesty Puller I did my best
meatgrinder42 is offline  
Old October 4, 2012, 05:47 PM   #8
jonnyc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 1,731
Other people's hands!
jonnyc is offline  
Old October 4, 2012, 08:22 PM   #9
Jo6pak
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 5, 2010
Location: West Coast...of WI
Posts: 1,663
High price tags
__________________
NRA Life Member, SAF contributor.
Jo6pak is offline  
Old October 4, 2012, 08:49 PM   #10
kilimanjaro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 23, 2009
Posts: 3,963
There's a 1917 Eddystone at local shop, cut down forend, and the rear sight protection wings are ground off. Total junker now. Asking $450 for it, dream on.
kilimanjaro is offline  
Old October 4, 2012, 09:23 PM   #11
USMCGrunt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2000
Location: Somewhere in 14T NT
Posts: 730
Ground down emblems I can stand. Granted a mum on an Arisaka is nice but not a deal breaker if it's ground. What I won't tolerate is bubba hack jobs to include "tactical modifications" since it's all one in the same to me. I don't give a damn if it was Stalin's personal Mosin-Nagant, one piece that has been cut off, bent, welded on or what-not, the historical value is ruined and the best you are going to get out of me is $20!
USMCGrunt is offline  
Old October 5, 2012, 08:09 AM   #12
madcratebuilder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2007
Location: Northern Orygun
Posts: 4,923
Quote:
High price tags
+1000

Most are too young to remember that these old mil-surps cost $10-15 back in the day and they were a cheap way to have a deer rifle. Many of the guys buying these had carried them for 5-6 years of war2 and didn't want to be reminded of it.
madcratebuilder is offline  
Old October 5, 2012, 07:47 PM   #13
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 16,177
Quote:
Most are too young to remember that these old mil-surps cost $10-15 back in the day and they were a cheap way to have a deer rifle.
Yep, bought several Mausers and an Arisaka out of a 55 gallon drum at Gibsons for 15.00. I can also remember when you couldn't give a Mosin away.
Hawg is offline  
Old October 7, 2012, 06:27 AM   #14
akguy1985
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 17, 2012
Location: Claremore, Oklahoma
Posts: 179
Import marks and scrubbed crests.
__________________
Marksman of the mezzanine
akguy1985 is offline  
Old October 7, 2012, 10:23 AM   #15
Willie Sutton
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 26, 2012
Posts: 1,066
Scrubbed Crests are a part of a guns history. We all know why Mums were ground off by the Japanese. Would we prefer one to be intact? Yes, but... even so it's part of it's heritage, and is not vandalism. Markings are interesting: Ever see a Kar-98K modified to 7.62 and with Nazi Waffenamt markings right next to the Star of David? Markings come and markings go and their presence (or removal) ebbs and flows with the tide of war. It's all good as long as it's original.

Crudely applied and badly placed import markings? That's vandalism. A little care goes a long way. Century ought to be spanked for the way they mark things. I absolutely positively will never buy anything marked by them. Other importers marking vary.

Bubba-Sporterizing takes a gun out of even the slightest consideration. It's no longer a military arm at that point and might as well be a badly maintained Mossberg. Just pass it by and not even give it a second thought. Sort of like Mosin Nagants.... (sorry, no interest). Actually, Mosin's do have an important role to play now: They let Bubba continue the hobby of "file and hacksaw improvements" while leaving Mausers and Enfields and Arisakas alone and unmolested. Go Bubba!


Willie (200 Mausers and Counting)

.

Last edited by Willie Sutton; October 7, 2012 at 10:30 AM.
Willie Sutton is offline  
Old October 7, 2012, 03:17 PM   #16
DennisCA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 3, 2012
Location: Union City CA (a.k.a. Poople's Republik of CA)
Posts: 451
I hate (ok maybe too strong of word: dislike):
Bubbin'

High-Price tags (overpriced)

(my pet peeve)
People who think they know-everything about C&R guns but really nothing very little or nothing at all!
DennisCA is offline  
Old October 10, 2012, 06:35 AM   #17
madcratebuilder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2007
Location: Northern Orygun
Posts: 4,923
Quote:
Originally Posted by akguy1985
Import marks and scrubbed crests.
Import marks on post 1968 imported fire arms. Blame the National Firearms Act. Pryor to that no import marks.

The scrubbed crests on war reparation rifles and surrender rifles are part of the history.
madcratebuilder is offline  
Old October 12, 2012, 10:28 PM   #18
sc928porsche
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 29, 2008
Location: now living in alabama
Posts: 2,433
Its as shame that Holland and Holland did all those bubba jobs on mausers.
__________________
No such thing as a stupid question. What is stupid is not asking it.
sc928porsche is offline  
Old October 13, 2012, 12:47 AM   #19
A pause for the COZ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 11, 2012
Location: Braham, Minnesota
Posts: 1,314
As for the Mosins. I would be careful about saying they are too common.
I remember having my pick of $30 303's once.
I should have bought ten of them. Heck I wish I still had the one I did buy.
There will be at least ten Mosins in the house before they become rare.
A pause for the COZ is offline  
Old October 13, 2012, 12:51 AM   #20
USMCGrunt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2000
Location: Somewhere in 14T NT
Posts: 730
I know what you mean. I got my minty M44 years ago for $50 and now I look around on gunbroker and see what the prices have jumped to now! My Norinco SKS was bought back in the $69 days and what do you think they are going for now? I wouldn't reccomend chopping up at Nagant to any of my friends but to the rest of the world, I say go ahead and chop away all you gunsmiths to be!!! It makes my unmolested rifle that much more valueable in the future! hehehe
USMCGrunt is offline  
Old October 13, 2012, 01:11 AM   #21
hoytinak
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 5, 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,721
Dang, this thread was kinda disappointing. I was hoping to see a bunch of cool "bubba'd" tacticool Mausers....among others.
hoytinak is offline  
Old October 13, 2012, 08:52 AM   #22
madcratebuilder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2007
Location: Northern Orygun
Posts: 4,923
Quote:
Originally Posted by sc928porsche
Its as shame that Holland and Holland did all those bubba jobs on mausers.
Don't leave out the Enfields.

madcratebuilder is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.09577 seconds with 10 queries