Help a noob and generate some good Karma...

[bbonner710]

I picked up an old Lee Loader for my Taurus 605 .357 at a flea market today for $7. It has everything except instructions and charge tables. The dipper in the kit is red and labeled "052". I could order the charge tables from Lee for $5, but being a total noob to reloading I wouldn't have half a clue what to do with them. Can anybody tell me a good powder/primer/bullet combo for self-protection that would work with the dipper in the kit? Thanks in advance for any help you offer.

[Sevens]

I'd like to help, but you'll have to examine that dipper more closely and tell us if there's any more info on it. I haven't ever goofed with a Lee Loader kit but have had lots of experience with Lee dippers going back to the late 1980s when I first started. And back then and even still today, all the Lee dippers were bright yellow in color and the number on them is one expressed in "cc" and the dipper included with .38/.357 dies is the 0,5cc dipper.

Now all the clues in your post paint a picture of a guy who is quite money-challenged or one that squeezes a nickel until it bleeds. NO WORRIES! You are among friends here. But while I can try to help a guy on a shoestring budget, it sounds more like you want to do this on a budget that's about 1/20th of a shoe string and frankly... I don't see it happening.

If you can confirm that your "052" dipper is the same size as the Lee 0,5cc dipper than I'll be happy to tell you what was listed on their load sheet back in 1988. However, my load sheet is -ALL- .38 Special loads, and all are pretty reserved.

If ya wanna spend a little dough and get set up to reload properly, there's a slew of us that would be happy to offer suggestions, advice, and nasty ridicule too! (just a little joke, there)

[9mmfan]

Someone's gonna say it, so I might as well be the first. You need to get your hands on a manual. Used bookstore or library if money is tight. Speer, Hornady, Lee, Lyman.

You can very easily damage either yourself or your gun if you jump in without understanding the process.

Not trying to be condescending or engage in naysayery, just trying to be a part of that good Karma you mentioned...

[JimDandy]

And the Kindle version of the ABC's of reloading.

[Lost Sheep]

Jim Dandy left out the fact that the Kindle version (if you have a Kindle) of ABC's of reloading is only a dollar.

The instructions for the Lee Loader are available on their web site.

The use of a single dipper to mete powder limits your ability to tailor loads. You REALLY need a scale. #1, it will allow you to adjust power levels. #2, it will let you verify that you are using the correct powder charge. #3, and most important, lets you be sure your powder charge is SAFE (powder charge is nothing to guess at). #4, weighing your dipper's results will let you verify your dipping technique is good and consistent-important for accuracy.

9mmfan is correct about getting a manual or two. ABC's of Reloading has no load data (but the descriptions of how to load are well worth it). All loading manuals have descriptions in the early chapters describing the process as well. All manuals (being written by different authors) will speak to you in different "voices" or styles, so reading several (check your local library or used book store - age of the manuals not being used for load data is irrelevant since loading techniques have not changed much in the last 70 years or so) is a good idea.

Most manuals give load recipes in grains (weight) of powder. The Lee Dipper you have does not tell you the volume in CCs (cubic centimeters) but it might be cubic inches (omitting the decimal point) or it might be an index number that has no measurement meaning at all. Whether you use a powder measure or a dipper, it is essential to verify the amount of powder you are getting. With a scale is best because all loading manuals give powder charges in weight. Lee's manual gives powder charges in both weight and volume, but since your dipper pre-dates Lee's use of their yellow (stamped with volume in CCs) dippers, you should get a scale.

Lee does sell a full set of dippers (with powder/volume/weight chart included) fairly inexpensively. But a scale is best.

Do not use a steel hammer to power the loading process. Use a wood, rawhide, plastic, hard rubber or soft brass mallet.

There are youtube videos on the internet that show the process, but study Lee Precision's (download from their web site) before viewing the videos. You don't know how correct the video-maker is until you compare the technique with Lee's description (and other videos).

Good luck.

Lost Sheep

[SSA]

The instructions are available online.

Powder and primers can be hard to find these days. If you had a suitable powder, somebody with one of those old Lee sets (I have one) could help you pick a bullet.

[Lost Sheep]

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=497313

Originally Posted by Whitetail99

Ok just to clarify. What do I need to go with the lee classic?
Thanks for baring with me! I've prob. Really got on y'alls nerves asking some really stupid questions.

A notebook so you can keep track of your loads' performances.

A mallet. Hot a hammer. Brass is the hardest metal you want to be hitting the steel dies with and rawhide, wood, plastic or hard rubber is better. Really hard rubber.

A scale. The one powder dipper that comes with the kit severely limits your power and powder options. Besides, consistency of powder charge is important to accuracy. If your technique is good, you can dip accurately with a dipper, but how can you really tell how consistent your performance with the dipper is? You can count the granules or you can weigh the results. 0.1 grain minimum resolution. Some electronic scales only tell you to 0.2 grains. (Grain is a unit of weight, not granule count - 7000 grains equals 1 pound) If my post seem simplistic, remember, I have no idea of your experience level and others of all experience levels will be reading this thread.

Calipers. Measuring the length of your loaded cartridge is important, The length of the case, too and the diameter of the bullet. Also, one of the important "tells" for brass wearing out or pressures being too high is casehead expansion and other things. You have to be able to measure to 0.001"

A block of wood so you don't dent your work surface, especially if you are using household furniture.

A loading block or two. If you load 50 cases at a time, put one loading block (the receiving block) on one side of your work area and the other (the supplying block) on the other side. As you process each case through the step you are performing, place it the receiving block. I put primed cases with the primers up so I can give them a mass inspection (I also feel the primer with my finger immediately after seating to ensure it is seated just below flush) for a last verification. Cases charged with powder started out primer-side up (to ensure they are empty) and end up in the receiving block case-mouth up and get a mass inspection by with a strong light to ensure all are charged with the same depth of powder.

All this shuffling around (the loading "algorithm") is designed to minimize the chance of a botched or missed step and to maximize efficiency. Some handloaders copy an algorithm (or method/procedure/whatever) from their mentor or design their own their own personal style. I have given you the center of mine.

A dropcloth (cloth, not plastic, which is noisy, doesn't drape well, lets primers roll around too easily and collects static electricity which may cause powder spills to scatter) makes cleanup and finding dropped stuff much easier. Get one twice as large as you want, spread it completely out, under your worktable and chair and 5 feet further, at least. A dropped primer can hit the edge of your chair and bounce quite far. (And don't EVER say "I will pick it up later".)

Every experienced handloader has not one, but a library of handloading manuals available to him/her. At least all that will volunteer a book count. That is, no one with more than 5 years experience has ever publicly admitted to owning only one. The early chapters of almost all manuals have their early chapters devoted to the "how tos" and the "whys" of handloading. Written by different authors with different writing styles some will tread aspects of loading with different emphasis than others. Multiple coverage of subjects ensures you get a variety of viewpoints and what one may cover thinly, others will cover thoroughly. The "ABCs of Handloading" contains no load recipes, but is a good introduction to the activity, as its sole purpose is to teach the subject. I am told that recent editions are scarier than 20 year old issues. "ABCs" is compiled by editors of many different authors and re-published anew every few years. Check for older editions at your local library or used book store.

Your shooting glasses will do for eye protection, but I keep a dedicated pair for reloading. Bigger lenses. If I used the Lee Classic Loader all the time, I would probably spring for a full face shield. I have never set off a primer while loading (with the Lee Loader or with any press), but have testimony that some have. I would wear a strong leather glove, too. Safety first.

About setting off primers. While it is extremely unlikely for you to light one up while loading it would be educational to load up an empty case with a primer, chamber it and fire it. You will get an idea of how powerful and noisy it is (out of a barrel it will be quieter). Fold a paper towel in quarters and hang it over your muzzle. Have a look at the embedded products of combustion and feel the amount of grit. Imagine that in your eye, the skin of your cheek or even just your hand.

Reloading isn't rocket science or even bomb disposal, but it does involve smoke and flame and things that go very fast. Know what can go wrong, take appropriate precautions and go forth. Millions have done so before.

A chronograph would be nice (can be had for under $100) but probably is not in your budget. But eventually you will want one, trust me.

That's all I can think of right now. I will repeat the list.

Scale
Manual(s)
Mallet
Eye protection
Piece of wood to take the inevitable dents
Calipers
Notebook
Loading Blocks
Dropcloth

Good luck.

Lost Sheep

p.s. You did not ask for this advice, but I will offer it anyway. Add up the cost of 15 boxes of ammunition at retail over-the-counter price. Add up the cost of the Lee Classic Loader (and the accessories I have listed) plus powder, bullets, primers and 50 brass cases (enough to make those same 300 rounds). Add up the cost of a Press and accessories plus the powder, bullets, primers and cases). Compare the three figures. Not so far apart, are they? Then consider that the convenience of a press vs the small size of the Lee Classic Loader (again, with the accessories).

Having said that, I profess that I have a Classic Loader for every caliber I load for. I never use them any more. The press is so much faster and more convenient for me. But when I add a caliber (and loading dies for my press), I always add a Classic Loader.

Lost Sheep

[higgite]

The old red Lee dippers were labeled in cubic inches. An "052" dipper is equivalent to .85 cc.
http://leeprecision.net/support/inde...powder-dippers

[mxsailor803]

Everyone on here has made very valid points. I will be stressing safety when doing charges. IF you think you may have put too much powder in a round, don't second guess it. Empty the charge and do it again. And don't be discouraged if you damage plated bullets your first time. I still do it from time to time. Everyone else has also made good recommendations for manuals as well. Since I was speed reading, my personal favorite manual is Lymann 49th Edition. Also for your load charges, depending on the firearm, don't be afraid to go BELOW the recommended level. I do on some of my revolver loads go below .1-.3 grains below the limit. Don't go too low though for you risk a squib (bullet stuck in barrel). Be humble, there is no dumb questions. Generally, everyone on here is willing to help. Enjoy the hobby.

[Sport45]

Can anybody tell me a good powder/primer/bullet combo for self-protection that would work with the dipper in the kit?

If you can get your hands on some Trail Boss powder you can use it under any bullet as long as it's not compressed. It's the only smokeless powder I would consider using without a scale or a known dipper size and corresponding charge table.

For the self protection aspect we'll have to know what kind of critter you hope to stop.

[JimDandy]

Originally Posted by Lost Sheep

Jim Dandy left out the fact that the Kindle version (if you have a Kindle) of ABC's of reloading is only a dollar.

You don't need a Kindle to read a Kindle version. I can't imagine anyone able to read and post on this forum unable to read a kindle book online as well. Either via a PC, or a Kindle App on a tablet, or smartphone.

[m&p45acp10+1]

The charge table is worth it for your needs. A scale to know if you are infact in the right range with your charges is advisable as well.

First start with a manual. If you have a library in your town see if they have ABC's of Reloading. All you need for that is a library card. Some even have the more popular manuals such as Lyman, Speer, and Nostler.

To safely reload you need to have an idea of what your are doing, and the things to avoid doing.

Modern Reloading has the charge tables in it, and cost less than $20 from most places online. It is worth the money, especialy if you use Lee Equipment.

[John C]

I respectfully disagree with what most of the others have said about the Lee loader. I think you can load great ammo without anything extra. Just get a bottle of Trail Boss powder and read all about how to load with it. Trail Boss is a very bulky powder, and it's very easy to load volumetrically. Although you would do well to get or get access to a scale to calibrate your existing scoop, or make a new one out of an empty case (either file down a .38 spl case or try smaller cases like a .380, 9mm etc to get the volume you need) and a piece of wire for a handle. Just seat the lead bullets to the crimp groove, and you'll be good to go.

If you really want to load easily, get some Pyrodex P or Triple 7 black powder substitute. Read about how to load these.

The caveat to this is that you won't be loading self protection ammo. This will be practice ammo only. Self protection ammo, IMO, is hotter than plinking ammo, and for that you'll need calipers, scale, etc to make sure you stay on the right side of safe.

I have several Lee Loaders in different calibers, and I'm a big fan of the product, even though I own three Dillon presses and a couple of single stage presses. The Lee Loader loads great ammo, though a bit slow. I timed myself, and I can load a box of 50 rounds in about 40 minutes. Considering the cost of a box of practice .38 SPL or .357, you will likely be well ahead in that time.

I agree that the weakness of the system is the priming. I haven't set of a primer (yet!), but the process is slow and you definitely risk doing so. I think the strength of the Lee Loader is the price, and the fact that you can add tools into the process that will speed things along. For example, you can speed of the process dramatically if you added a priming tool that's $20, new. You won't be in much danger of setting off primers, and you won't have to spend a bunch of time tapping in the primers. The next thing you could do to speed it up is add a powder measure. The Lee Perfect powder measure is $25, but you'll definitely need a scale ($22). After a while, you can upgrade to a single stage press and dies.

But in the meantime you're loading ammunition and saving money. If you decide you don't like it, you're only out your $7, though you could probably see it on Ebay for $15. If you do like it, it gives you a great way to upgrade into a full reloading setup.

[dahermit]

I could order the charge tables from Lee for $5, but being a total noob to reloading I wouldn't have half a clue what to do with them.

Your head must be spinning by now from all the gratuitous advice posted above.

I will try to simplify it for you. Get the charge tables (instructions on one side, the charge tables on the back), from Lee. You will not need any other equipment. The charge tables will give a list of the powders and bullets you can use for the included dipper. The charge tables are pretty much self-explanitory...if you cannot figure out what they are telling you, you should not be hand loading. Lee included everything in the box that was absolutely needed to produce ammunition including instructions. Nevertheless, if the priming device is the old one where the cartridge case is driven into it to seat the primer, you should buy a separate hand-priming system inasmuch as those old "pound-in" priming devices were know to set off primers.

[SSA]

The new load table might not be much help with an old measure.
The 052 scoop with Unique or Red Dot should be a safe, light 357 load with a 125 grain jacketed bullet.

[Sevens]

Ummm, I would never suggest anyone take an otherwise unknown charge weight of Red Dot and load it in to any round. Trail Boss is one thing. An over charge of Red Dot can grenade a handgun.

[SSA]

Hornady #II shows 125, 357 loads with 5.9 to 7.7 gr Red Dot.
Lee chart shows the 052 scoop to be 6 gr. Red Dot. Sounds safe to me.