Stupidity confession...

GunDummy · February 1, 2010, 01:03 PM

I recently inherited a Savage Fox Model BSE Series H .410 side-by-side double barrel shotgun. I have some guns, though no break-open shotguns (I have a pump and a bolt action, but no break-opens), so the first thing I did was to break it open to make sure that it was empty. It was, no problem.

Then I did something stupid: I closed it and snapped the triggers. Now I can't break it open again, regardless of where I set the safety. I'm open for suggestions on how to fix it.

Feeling stupid,
GD

oneounceload · February 1, 2010, 01:21 PM

You're saying you dry-fired the gun, and now you can't move the top lever to the right to open the barrels? The safety has nothing to do with opening the gun - I have one in 20 gauge

Scorch · February 1, 2010, 01:35 PM

Send me the shotgun, include 500 rounds of Winchester AA ammo and a brand new $50 bill (or a dirty old $100), and I will take care of the problem for you. If you would like the shotgun returned to you, please include another $50 for shipping and handling (trust me, it will be handled when it comes back).

Or, if you prefer, just push the locking lever to the right and push down on the barrels. If the shotgun has been stored for a while, it may be stiff.

I prefer the first method, you may prefer the second method.

GunDummy · February 1, 2010, 01:55 PM

oneounceload, Scorch - the lever moves and the gun breaks open (i.e. the barrels tilt forward from the stock) by only about 1/8 of an inch and then stops. Moderate additional pressure doesn't move it more. When I broke it open to see if it was loaded it took no force at all, it practically fell open once the lever was moved. I presume, but don't know, that breaking it open is what cocks it, so could it be that it's just stiff as Scorch suggests and I just need to horse on it more? (It's hard to convey force in writing, but I'd say that once it stuck that I applied, unsuccessfully, about the amount of force it would take to break a 1/2-inch dry oak branch with your hands 18 inches apart.)

GD

oneounceload · February 1, 2010, 03:03 PM

You might have a firing pin hanging up - hard to tell without looking. Take the gun apart - take off the forearm, then remove the barrels. Look for a burrs, galling, anything that might be trying to keep from moving smoothly.

There shouldn't be a forearm latch - grasp it by the front and pull it straight down - that should take it off. Then move the lever to the right and remove the barrels

oletymer · February 1, 2010, 03:04 PM

It was probably cocked when you first opened it. Now because it has not been lubed in some time a fair amount of pressure will probalbly be required to open it. You might try opening part way as you said and spray some lubricant in the hinge area, let it sit awhile and then try.

BigJimP · February 1, 2010, 03:24 PM

Get a thick bath towel / smack the butt 3 or 4 times on a solid surface ( on the towel ) / and see if that makes a difference ....

like others, I suspect something is hanging up / needs some lube ...

GunDummy · February 1, 2010, 03:55 PM

Thanks to all, very much. Now I've moved from feeling stupid to ignorant to informed, the ideal cycle, will go home and try the suggestions.

GD

jlv08 · February 1, 2010, 05:56 PM

The firing pin really has nothing to hang up on and i would bet that your extractor/ejector is causing the problem. The extractor/ejector is tripped when the gun is being opened to remove spent shells and it is possible that you have a burr or another gremlin in that portion of the gun causing you to be unable to open the action. Numrich gunparts has schematics that can aid you to trouble shoot the problem. That's where I'd start. Hope this helps.

jmr40 · February 1, 2010, 06:07 PM

I bought one of those new about 1973, if I remember right. Cut grass all summer to save up the money. Wish I had saved a few dollars and just bought the cheaper B model with extractors instead of ejectors. The ejectors never worked right. I kept the gun for about 15 years and it was in the shop more than in the field. Finally let it go cheap.

Some doubles can be harder to open because you have to cock both firing pins as you open it. Hope this is all you need. My ejectors never worked right and I was glad to be rid of it.

oneounceload · February 1, 2010, 07:16 PM

Quote:

The firing pin really has nothing to hang up on and i would bet that your extractor/ejector is causing the problem

Actually, a firing pin that does not retract due to a bad spring can hangup on the lower section of the barrel/monoblock as you try to open it. (Had that happen on one of my guns). While I don't think it is the most likely cause, it IS a possibility

zippy13 · February 1, 2010, 07:44 PM

1-oz
The firing pin was my first thought, too. But, on second thought, isn't an un-rebounded firing pin only a problem if it's in a spent primer's dimple -- otherwise, isn't there ample clearance?

oneounceload · February 1, 2010, 08:07 PM

Zippy - my smith was showing me one on one of my guns -it was protruding out enough that when he opened the gun, it was catching on the lug under it - not a lot, mind you, but enough he was afraid the pin would get broken - it made it difficult to open for him. All I have to go on....

Added: This was on the lower barrel of a Browning O/U, FWIW

dropthehammer · February 1, 2010, 08:38 PM

If the gun will break open 1/8" like you say, take a flashlite, and peek down in there. My guess is it is hanging up on the firing pins. You should be able to push them back in with a screwdriver or whatever you can fit in there. DON'T FORCE ANYTHING!!!!!!! If you can't figure it out yourself, take it to a COMPETENT smith. Those little guns are bringing good money these days, well worth whatever it costs to repair. Or you could just sell it to me. lol. If you see the firing pis sticking out, you coud also try pushing them in from the end of the barrel with a piece of round stock.

Lee Lapin · February 1, 2010, 09:28 PM

If the gun hasn't been opened enough to cock the hammers, then the hammers are holding the firing pins forward, right? So trying to push them back in against the hammer springs isn't going to work, correct?

At least now you know to put snap caps in any double before you dry fire it...

lpl

zippy13 · February 1, 2010, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneounceload

my smith was showing me one on one of my guns -it was protruding out enough that when he opened the gun, it was catching on the lug under it - not a lot, mind you, but enough he was afraid the pin would get broken - it made it difficult to open for him. All I have to go on….

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Lapin

If the gun hasn't been opened enough to cock the hammers, then the hammers are holding the firing pins forward, right? So trying to push them back in against the hammer springs isn't going to work, correct?

Does the model in question have rebounding pins? From what I just learned from 1-oz, protruding pins may be the problem, even without primers in place. I've only experienced the problem with hulls. Perhaps the first step should be some penetrating oil to the pins. And, a hard wood dowel down the barrel would be a less damaging approach than trying to pry via a partially open breech.

olddrum1 · February 2, 2010, 12:35 AM

Went out and dryfired mine. It has rebounding pins. I am pretty certain that you have a firing pin issue. If your lucky BJPs advice might help. If it doesn't, you might take the forearm off, push the lever over and try moving the barrels around to see if yon can get the firing pin to retract with a little help from WD-40.

zippy13 · February 2, 2010, 02:07 AM

olddrum1, my friend, thanks for clearing up the rebounding pin question with this model. Is there any American made shotgun that you don't own or have owned?

olddrum1 · February 2, 2010, 11:37 PM

Z13, my friend, I have traded shotguns for quite some years. Some I wish to have back, some I do not care to see again. It just so happens that this is the one that I keep at the backdoor to make a little noise if the coyotes come through the barnyard. Not so much to hurt them but to let them know were home.

Uncle Buck · February 3, 2010, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Quote:
The firing pin really has nothing to hang up on and i would bet that your extractor/ejector is causing the problem

Actually, a firing pin that does not retract due to a bad spring can hangup on the lower section of the barrel/monoblock as you try to open it. (Had that happen on one of my guns). While I don't think it is the most likely cause, it IS a possibility

This happened to my old gun and I had to put a thick dowel down the barrel to push the firing pin back in.

olddrum1 · February 3, 2010, 11:40 PM

OK, Uncle Buck, your post should be a sticky note. Great solution.

February 1, 2010, 01:03 PM	#1
GunDummy Junior Member Join Date: February 1, 2010 Posts: 3	Stupidity confession... I recently inherited a Savage Fox Model BSE Series H .410 side-by-side double barrel shotgun. I have some guns, though no break-open shotguns (I have a pump and a bolt action, but no break-opens), so the first thing I did was to break it open to make sure that it was empty. It was, no problem. Then I did something stupid: I closed it and snapped the triggers. Now I can't break it open again, regardless of where I set the safety. I'm open for suggestions on how to fix it. Feeling stupid, GD

February 1, 2010, 01:35 PM	#3
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	Send me the shotgun, include 500 rounds of Winchester AA ammo and a brand new $50 bill (or a dirty old $100), and I will take care of the problem for you. If you would like the shotgun returned to you, please include another $50 for shipping and handling (trust me, it will be handled when it comes back). Or, if you prefer, just push the locking lever to the right and push down on the barrels. If the shotgun has been stored for a while, it may be stiff. I prefer the first method, you may prefer the second method. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

February 1, 2010, 03:03 PM	#5
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	You might have a firing pin hanging up - hard to tell without looking. Take the gun apart - take off the forearm, then remove the barrels. Look for a burrs, galling, anything that might be trying to keep from moving smoothly. There shouldn't be a forearm latch - grasp it by the front and pull it straight down - that should take it off. Then move the lever to the right and remove the barrels Last edited by oneounceload; February 1, 2010 at 03:10 PM.

February 1, 2010, 08:07 PM	#13
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	Zippy - my smith was showing me one on one of my guns -it was protruding out enough that when he opened the gun, it was catching on the lug under it - not a lot, mind you, but enough he was afraid the pin would get broken - it made it difficult to open for him. All I have to go on.... Added: This was on the lower barrel of a Browning O/U, FWIW Last edited by oneounceload; February 1, 2010 at 09:39 PM.

February 1, 2010, 08:38 PM	#14
dropthehammer Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2009 Location: Suburb of Cleveland Ohio Posts: 108	Firing pins. If the gun will break open 1/8" like you say, take a flashlite, and peek down in there. My guess is it is hanging up on the firing pins. You should be able to push them back in with a screwdriver or whatever you can fit in there. DON'T FORCE ANYTHING!!!!!!! If you can't figure it out yourself, take it to a COMPETENT smith. Those little guns are bringing good money these days, well worth whatever it costs to repair. Or you could just sell it to me. lol. If you see the firing pis sticking out, you coud also try pushing them in from the end of the barrel with a piece of round stock. Last edited by dropthehammer; February 1, 2010 at 08:43 PM. Reason: another idear

February 1, 2010, 01:21 PM	#2
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	You're saying you dry-fired the gun, and now you can't move the top lever to the right to open the barrels? The safety has nothing to do with opening the gun - I have one in 20 gauge

February 1, 2010, 01:55 PM	#4
GunDummy Junior Member Join Date: February 1, 2010 Posts: 3	oneounceload, Scorch - the lever moves and the gun breaks open (i.e. the barrels tilt forward from the stock) by only about 1/8 of an inch and then stops. Moderate additional pressure doesn't move it more. When I broke it open to see if it was loaded it took no force at all, it practically fell open once the lever was moved. I presume, but don't know, that breaking it open is what cocks it, so could it be that it's just stiff as Scorch suggests and I just need to horse on it more? (It's hard to convey force in writing, but I'd say that once it stuck that I applied, unsuccessfully, about the amount of force it would take to break a 1/2-inch dry oak branch with your hands 18 inches apart.) GD

February 1, 2010, 03:04 PM	#6
oletymer Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2005 Posts: 338	It was probably cocked when you first opened it. Now because it has not been lubed in some time a fair amount of pressure will probalbly be required to open it. You might try opening part way as you said and spray some lubricant in the hinge area, let it sit awhile and then try.

February 1, 2010, 03:24 PM	#7
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Get a thick bath towel / smack the butt 3 or 4 times on a solid surface ( on the towel ) / and see if that makes a difference .... like others, I suspect something is hanging up / needs some lube ...

February 1, 2010, 03:55 PM	#8
GunDummy Junior Member Join Date: February 1, 2010 Posts: 3	Thanks to all, very much. Now I've moved from feeling stupid to ignorant to informed, the ideal cycle, will go home and try the suggestions. GD

February 1, 2010, 05:56 PM	#9
jlv08 Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2008 Posts: 122	The firing pin really has nothing to hang up on and i would bet that your extractor/ejector is causing the problem. The extractor/ejector is tripped when the gun is being opened to remove spent shells and it is possible that you have a burr or another gremlin in that portion of the gun causing you to be unable to open the action. Numrich gunparts has schematics that can aid you to trouble shoot the problem. That's where I'd start. Hope this helps.

February 1, 2010, 06:07 PM	#10
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,806	I bought one of those new about 1973, if I remember right. Cut grass all summer to save up the money. Wish I had saved a few dollars and just bought the cheaper B model with extractors instead of ejectors. The ejectors never worked right. I kept the gun for about 15 years and it was in the shop more than in the field. Finally let it go cheap. Some doubles can be harder to open because you have to cock both firing pins as you open it. Hope this is all you need. My ejectors never worked right and I was glad to be rid of it.

February 1, 2010, 07:44 PM	#12
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	1-oz The firing pin was my first thought, too. But, on second thought, isn't an un-rebounded firing pin only a problem if it's in a spent primer's dimple -- otherwise, isn't there ample clearance?

February 1, 2010, 09:28 PM	#15
Lee Lapin Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2004 Location: SE NC Posts: 1,239	If the gun hasn't been opened enough to cock the hammers, then the hammers are holding the firing pins forward, right? So trying to push them back in against the hammer springs isn't going to work, correct? At least now you know to put snap caps in any double before you dry fire it... lpl __________________ Mindset - Skillset - Toolset. In that order! Attitude and skill will get you through times of no gear, better than gear will get you through times of no attitude and no skill.

February 2, 2010, 12:35 AM	#17
olddrum1 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Mid Missouri Posts: 807	Went out and dryfired mine. It has rebounding pins. I am pretty certain that you have a firing pin issue. If your lucky BJPs advice might help. If it doesn't, you might take the forearm off, push the lever over and try moving the barrels around to see if yon can get the firing pin to retract with a little help from WD-40. Last edited by olddrum1; February 2, 2010 at 12:38 AM. Reason: Grammer

February 2, 2010, 02:07 AM	#18
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	olddrum1, my friend, thanks for clearing up the rebounding pin question with this model. Is there any American made shotgun that you don't own or have owned?

February 2, 2010, 11:37 PM	#19
olddrum1 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Mid Missouri Posts: 807	Z13, my friend, I have traded shotguns for quite some years. Some I wish to have back, some I do not care to see again. It just so happens that this is the one that I keep at the backdoor to make a little noise if the coyotes come through the barnyard. Not so much to hurt them but to let them know were home.

February 3, 2010, 11:40 PM	#21
olddrum1 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Mid Missouri Posts: 807	OK, Uncle Buck, your post should be a sticky note. Great solution.