How versitle can a dog realy be?

1redneck · December 23, 2001, 11:51 AM

I"ve been doing some thinking on getting a dog for bird hunting and have always prefered Labs even though there are some other really good dogs, My son will be of hunting age next year and we are planning on doing alot of hunting in the future and have put some serious thought in bear and cat hunting which got me thinking is it possible to get a dog for all kinds of hunting critters and birds I realize this is probably a real long shot but thought I would look into it. What breed makes a good dog for cat and bear hunting and what is involved in training. Thanx in advance for any input and advice.

good shootin

Art Eatman · December 23, 2001, 07:50 PM

Using dogs to hunt cat and bear is commonly a pack operation. Same for hogs.

Labs seem to be smarter, in an all-around way, than pointers and setters. They are certainly happier in colder weather than many dogs, given the nature of their coats--which is why they're so often used in retrieval of ducks.

I dunno. I'd do a bunch of brain-picking with dog-breeders, and do some reading. Your local public library ought to have many books about hunting dogs...

FWIW, Art

H&H,hunter · December 24, 2001, 03:59 PM

Aboout the closest thing I've found is poodlepointer. It is a GSPcrossed with a standard poodle. They are trained to cold trail blood trail and tree or hold as well as fetch birds. I've seen them in action on coons and birds. I've never used one on Lion or Bear. If you are going to use dogs on hogs you'll need at least three good dogs one will just get himself killed.

yorec · December 25, 2001, 03:03 AM

I've heard the old saying that you can teach a poodle to tree a lion if you can just get it to bark, but when you run into a lion that won't tree it's time to get a new poodle... Don't tell me someone actually acted on it?!?

Bet then again, I don't know about that single dog will get himslef killed thing... Most of the time it's definately true, but I've a friend who hunts loins with a single border collie. It started out the collie followed along on a couple of hunts when my friend had hounds (he got rid of them when he found he no longer needed them) and then one day when just he and the collie were out they saw some lion tracks and the dog did the rest. That darn animal will follow the trail for a ways and stop to see if the boss is coming and wait until he does - he doesn't ever get much beyond eyesight so there has never been a cat with enough time to kill him. If a cat does jump him he turns and runs back to the protection of the hunter who's just around the corner - Bam! Hunt's over. The chases are longer than usual since the cat doesn't get pushed faster than my friend can walk, but then I think he's part mountain sheep too...

Darndest pair you'll ever meet!

Kingcreek · December 25, 2001, 10:19 AM

I can tell you a bit about Labs and retrievers in general but I'm kinda wonderin' if a dog that runs bears and big cats makes a suitable pet with kids?
My Lab will run a barn-cat but knows better than to catch one.

A good lab can be a great family pet, a source of entertainment, and a versatile hunter but I might draw the line this side of a bear hunt. I've spent over 40 years with Goldens and Labs and I've seen them do some amazing things, but mostly with feathered meat.

Crimper-D · December 26, 2001, 12:20 AM

The neighborhood pack = 2 Border Collies and a Wolf Hybred.
I live in Cat & Bear country and my neighbor dogs teamed up.
My Border Collie and my nextdoor neighbors were inseprable buds, a couple of years after this collaboration, along comes my other neighbor with a cute lil pup that turned into a 130lb Wolf!
The 2 hearding dogs tolerated the pup's following them around ...til he got about half grown, whereupon they beat the snot out of him and made him #3 dog in their little organization.
When he got his full growth, the 2 BC's put him on 'Point' and flanked him! It was a sight to behold.

They never managed to tree anything bigger than Coons or Bobcat in the 3 years they were an operating unit, but they were _Very_ effective! Humans were just spectators.

Kingcreek · December 26, 2001, 09:05 AM

My granddaughter ain't gonna play in the yard with a 130# wolf if I'm around.
and While I don't doubt the story about that pack, I wouldn't think of them hunting quail,grouse, or pheasant and sharing it with me. Effective? maybe. Versatile? I doubt it.

boogerbawb · December 26, 2001, 12:54 PM

I've always done very good with my two black labs over the years on both upland game birds and waterfowl, but neither showed much interest in running other things, except maybe rabbitts.

I live in cat/bear country now and really wish I had a bunch of dang rat terriers. Had one of those little varmints growing up on a farm in the Midwest; little bundle of wire and nervous energy that had no clue she wasn't the biggest, baddest critter on the block. Coon, cat, oppossum didn't matter, she would tree it. Once came home late (choir practice, I believe it was) and ran a huge boar coon out of the shed. Grabbed revolver and flashlight & whistled up the terrier and set her on the trail. A couple minutes later, heard the most Godawful squalling and hissing and screaming & thought she'd finally met her match. Nope. Big boar was about 6 feet up an oak trunk and going no further as the terrier was hanging off his butt by her teeth with neck and all four legs jerking andthrashing trying to bring him down.

I always wondered if a pack of them little terriers being their ornery, yapping, hyper, aggressive selves would bluff a cat or bear into treeing?

KYE-OAT · December 27, 2001, 12:51 AM

.......We have a two year old Lab/Greyhound mix and she is a natural "everything" dog. She retrieves duck , flushes quail and rabbit and trees feral cats, possums, and 'coon.....
I have been leary of trying to drag bear scent for her, as she(like any real Good dog) is so eager to please and she is all heart, I believe she'd get herself into a pickle....you see, she is A LOT faster than I, especially at night thru' briars.....
Wonder if it is that Greyhound in her??
As an aside, there is an AR-based outfit called NiteLite, that carries cut collars, Ballistic Cloth dog jackets , and so on for the dog-using hunter who would be inclined to pursue the less benevolent species.........heck, they even sell a Heavy Duty staple gun, in case Fido's inners suddenly get to be his outters!!

KYE-OAT · December 27, 2001, 12:54 AM

NiteLite's website is www.huntsmart.com ....

dZ · December 28, 2001, 12:50 AM

HISTORY and USE
The German Jagdterrier (jagd is German for "to hunt" and is pronounced "yack") is also
known as the Deutscher Terrier, German Hunt Terrier and the German Hunting Terrier. As it's
name implies, this breed was developed in Germany to be a serious hunter. In 1951 Max Thiel, Sr.
emigrated from Germany to the U.S., bringing with him the first German Jagdterriers. German
Jagdterriers are used to hunt almost any mammal, whether it digs, runs, or climbs. With training
they follow a blood trail to wounded game. They may be trained to flush and retrieve birds. They
are also used as bay dogs on wild boar. In spite of their small size, they are worthy adversaries of
large game like bear and cougar.

HUNTING STYLE and DISPOSTION
The German Jagdterrier possesses intelligence, great scenting ability, passion for water, and
fearless tenacity. They are the only terrier that are vocal while following a scent trail. The German
Jagdterriers adapt to new situations and make loving pets and most are good with children. They
love being with a person and they like to please their owner. However they do have a energetic
personality and are best suited for owners that will utilize them as hunting and/or working dogs.
They make good watch dogs.

HUNTING IN AMERICA
The German Jagdterrier are used for all types of hunting in the U.S.. They are used for ground
work in barns, under houses, hay bales and all types of ground work. They are great on wild boar,
bear, bobcat, raccoon, fox, opposum and just about any other type of game you can think of. Some
German Jagdterriers will tree. They are not a natural born tree dog, but with training most can be
taught to tree. These dogs do not make a tree dog like a hound, cur or feist do. Some will jump, whin,
run up trees, and others will stay at the tree and bark up. Out of a litter of pups you won't know what
ones will be tree minded and what ones will be ground/bay dogs.

December 23, 2001, 11:51 AM	#1
1redneck Member Join Date: July 17, 2001 Location: Boise ID Posts: 43	How versitle can a dog realy be? I"ve been doing some thinking on getting a dog for bird hunting and have always prefered Labs even though there are some other really good dogs, My son will be of hunting age next year and we are planning on doing alot of hunting in the future and have put some serious thought in bear and cat hunting which got me thinking is it possible to get a dog for all kinds of hunting critters and birds I realize this is probably a real long shot but thought I would look into it. What breed makes a good dog for cat and bear hunting and what is involved in training. Thanx in advance for any input and advice. good shootin

December 25, 2001, 03:03 AM	#4
yorec Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2000 Location: Wyoming Posts: 2,328	I've heard the old saying that you can teach a poodle to tree a lion if you can just get it to bark, but when you run into a lion that won't tree it's time to get a new poodle... Don't tell me someone actually acted on it?!? Bet then again, I don't know about that single dog will get himslef killed thing... Most of the time it's definately true, but I've a friend who hunts loins with a single border collie. It started out the collie followed along on a couple of hunts when my friend had hounds (he got rid of them when he found he no longer needed them) and then one day when just he and the collie were out they saw some lion tracks and the dog did the rest. That darn animal will follow the trail for a ways and stop to see if the boss is coming and wait until he does - he doesn't ever get much beyond eyesight so there has never been a cat with enough time to kill him. If a cat does jump him he turns and runs back to the protection of the hunter who's just around the corner - Bam! Hunt's over. The chases are longer than usual since the cat doesn't get pushed faster than my friend can walk, but then I think he's part mountain sheep too... Darndest pair you'll ever meet! __________________ What part of "... shall not be infringed..." don't you understand?

December 26, 2001, 12:20 AM	#6
Crimper-D Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2001 Location: The Bearflag Republic Posts: 579	Check out this dogpack! The neighborhood pack = 2 Border Collies and a Wolf Hybred. I live in Cat & Bear country and my neighbor dogs teamed up. My Border Collie and my nextdoor neighbors were inseprable buds, a couple of years after this collaboration, along comes my other neighbor with a cute lil pup that turned into a 130lb Wolf! The 2 hearding dogs tolerated the pup's following them around ...til he got about half grown, whereupon they beat the snot out of him and made him #3 dog in their little organization. When he got his full growth, the 2 BC's put him on 'Point' and flanked him! It was a sight to behold. They never managed to tree anything bigger than Coons or Bobcat in the 3 years they were an operating unit, but they were _Very_ effective! Humans were just spectators. __________________ "It is evident that scepticism, while it makes no actual change in a man, always makes him feel better.".....H.L.Mencken

December 26, 2001, 12:54 PM	#8
boogerbawb Member Join Date: October 10, 2001 Location: Montana Posts: 73	I've always done very good with my two black labs over the years on both upland game birds and waterfowl, but neither showed much interest in running other things, except maybe rabbitts. I live in cat/bear country now and really wish I had a bunch of dang rat terriers. Had one of those little varmints growing up on a farm in the Midwest; little bundle of wire and nervous energy that had no clue she wasn't the biggest, baddest critter on the block. Coon, cat, oppossum didn't matter, she would tree it. Once came home late (choir practice, I believe it was) and ran a huge boar coon out of the shed. Grabbed revolver and flashlight & whistled up the terrier and set her on the trail. A couple minutes later, heard the most Godawful squalling and hissing and screaming & thought she'd finally met her match. Nope. Big boar was about 6 feet up an oak trunk and going no further as the terrier was hanging off his butt by her teeth with neck and all four legs jerking andthrashing trying to bring him down. I always wondered if a pack of them little terriers being their ornery, yapping, hyper, aggressive selves would bluff a cat or bear into treeing? __________________ The most terrifying sound in nature is not the roar of a charging lion nor the whistle of a descending bomb; rather, it is a click when you expect to hear a bang." Peter Hathaway Capstick, or, "Why I hate the M16A1"

December 27, 2001, 12:51 AM	#9
KYE-OAT Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2001 Location: AR Posts: 121	All for Labs.............. .......We have a two year old Lab/Greyhound mix and she is a natural "everything" dog. She retrieves duck , flushes quail and rabbit and trees feral cats, possums, and 'coon..... I have been leary of trying to drag bear scent for her, as she(like any real Good dog) is so eager to please and she is all heart, I believe she'd get herself into a pickle....you see, she is A LOT faster than I, especially at night thru' briars..... Wonder if it is that Greyhound in her?? As an aside, there is an AR-based outfit called NiteLite, that carries cut collars, Ballistic Cloth dog jackets , and so on for the dog-using hunter who would be inclined to pursue the less benevolent species.........heck, they even sell a Heavy Duty staple gun, in case Fido's inners suddenly get to be his outters!!

December 23, 2001, 07:50 PM	#2
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Using dogs to hunt cat and bear is commonly a pack operation. Same for hogs. Labs seem to be smarter, in an all-around way, than pointers and setters. They are certainly happier in colder weather than many dogs, given the nature of their coats--which is why they're so often used in retrieval of ducks. I dunno. I'd do a bunch of brain-picking with dog-breeders, and do some reading. Your local public library ought to have many books about hunting dogs... FWIW, Art

December 24, 2001, 03:59 PM	#3
H&H,hunter Senior Member Join Date: July 25, 2001 Location: Colorado Posts: 504	Aboout the closest thing I've found is poodlepointer. It is a GSPcrossed with a standard poodle. They are trained to cold trail blood trail and tree or hold as well as fetch birds. I've seen them in action on coons and birds. I've never used one on Lion or Bear. If you are going to use dogs on hogs you'll need at least three good dogs one will just get himself killed.

December 25, 2001, 10:19 AM	#5
Kingcreek Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: rural Illinois Posts: 590	I can tell you a bit about Labs and retrievers in general but I'm kinda wonderin' if a dog that runs bears and big cats makes a suitable pet with kids? My Lab will run a barn-cat but knows better than to catch one. A good lab can be a great family pet, a source of entertainment, and a versatile hunter but I might draw the line this side of a bear hunt. I've spent over 40 years with Goldens and Labs and I've seen them do some amazing things, but mostly with feathered meat.

December 26, 2001, 09:05 AM	#7
Kingcreek Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: rural Illinois Posts: 590	My granddaughter ain't gonna play in the yard with a 130# wolf if I'm around. and While I don't doubt the story about that pack, I wouldn't think of them hunting quail,grouse, or pheasant and sharing it with me. Effective? maybe. Versatile? I doubt it.

December 27, 2001, 12:54 AM	#10
KYE-OAT Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2001 Location: AR Posts: 121	website......DUH! NiteLite's website is www.huntsmart.com ....

December 28, 2001, 12:50 AM	#11
dZ Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 1999 Location: Exiled, Fetid Swamp, DC Posts: 7,548	HISTORY and USE The German Jagdterrier (jagd is German for "to hunt" and is pronounced "yack") is also known as the Deutscher Terrier, German Hunt Terrier and the German Hunting Terrier. As it's name implies, this breed was developed in Germany to be a serious hunter. In 1951 Max Thiel, Sr. emigrated from Germany to the U.S., bringing with him the first German Jagdterriers. German Jagdterriers are used to hunt almost any mammal, whether it digs, runs, or climbs. With training they follow a blood trail to wounded game. They may be trained to flush and retrieve birds. They are also used as bay dogs on wild boar. In spite of their small size, they are worthy adversaries of large game like bear and cougar. HUNTING STYLE and DISPOSTION The German Jagdterrier possesses intelligence, great scenting ability, passion for water, and fearless tenacity. They are the only terrier that are vocal while following a scent trail. The German Jagdterriers adapt to new situations and make loving pets and most are good with children. They love being with a person and they like to please their owner. However they do have a energetic personality and are best suited for owners that will utilize them as hunting and/or working dogs. They make good watch dogs. HUNTING IN AMERICA The German Jagdterrier are used for all types of hunting in the U.S.. They are used for ground work in barns, under houses, hay bales and all types of ground work. They are great on wild boar, bear, bobcat, raccoon, fox, opposum and just about any other type of game you can think of. Some German Jagdterriers will tree. They are not a natural born tree dog, but with training most can be taught to tree. These dogs do not make a tree dog like a hound, cur or feist do. Some will jump, whin, run up trees, and others will stay at the tree and bark up. Out of a litter of pups you won't know what ones will be tree minded and what ones will be ground/bay dogs. __________________ "O tell the Lacedomecians to damn the torpedoes." BOTR, Chapter V: Some Monsters