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Old November 30, 2016, 10:42 PM   #51
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* * * The difference between getting 6 rounds off and 10 rounds off is most likely....you get neither.

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It's Alaska, not New York. The G20 is good-to-go with a 15-rd magazine, or three.
You won't be able to dump the mag on a charging bear unless you are at a level that you can compete in IPSC at the higher levels...and even then you won't get that many shots off. They'll already be too close. A Griz can sprint 35 mph and have been observed doing over 25 for over 2 miles. Sprinting they are covering over 50 feet per second. How many accurate shots can you get off in 3 seconds? That is how long it will take one to cover 50 yards.

Edit to add: Remember the 7 yard rule concerning dealing with humans. You first have to recognize the danger, react, unholster, then shoot. For the average person, that takes about 1.5 seconds. And average man can cover 7 yards during that time.
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Old November 30, 2016, 11:18 PM   #52
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If you are used to wearing a tool belt all day then the extra weight of a big bore revolver isn't that inconvenient.
Having packed a heavy tool belt around in an industrial setting for a few years in a former life, this just isn't true, at least for most folks. I was young and fit, and not working in the exhausting conditions of the Arctic. A couple of pounds is not a little weight, and a short barreled big bore is a poor choice, even in .454 Cassell..maybe especially in .454.

With a little training and practice a G20 might get the job done. It would be a very small percentage that could get anywhere near that performance with a big bore wheel gun without spending more time shooting one than most people will tolerate. I like revolvers, but taking the advice of the locals is the right thing to do. Of course I have never been much north of Niagara Falls..
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Old November 30, 2016, 11:43 PM   #53
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In a former life I worked construction.....spent several years wearing one myself. I'm not that big either.

While they are building stuff they'll be making enough noise that most bears won't do more than watch from a distance. It's when they aren't working that they will more likely need one on them.
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Old November 30, 2016, 11:44 PM   #54
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SHR970, I once saw a video (that I can't now find) of a mother grizzly charge a hunter, guide, and cameraman. She closed maybe a hundred yards faster than I could believe. If it hadn't been for the cool head and great skills of the guide, there would have been carnage. Anyone who thinks they will have plenty of time in a bear attack shouldn't bet their life on it.
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Old December 1, 2016, 08:34 AM   #55
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The subject of the attack may not be able to dump a mag, but they won't be alone. The others on the trip will likely have plenty of time.
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Old December 1, 2016, 09:17 AM   #56
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I believe we are talking opinions, Semi Vs Revolver.

I cant comment on the Glock or 10mm, I've have no experience with them but I with the heavy revolvers.

How many Model 29s or Ruger Black Hawks have you seen fail?

I got my Model 29 in the early 80s and have shot the crap out of it. It still works today.

Its little sister, the Model 28, my service revolver I was issued, carried most of my 20 years in LE, from the Mid 70s still works today, it was given to me when I retired, and is now my bowling pin gun, still works, I have no idea of the 10s of thousands of rounds it has fired.

If I was to pick a gun for survival in Alaska (been there 22 years) or any other purpose, I'd pick what works for me, not what some "group" tells me.

I will add, walking around the wilds of Alaska (or in the cities for that matter) you are more likely to have to deal with grumpy moose then any bear. Those puppies are lightning quick. Nothing is more dangerous then being caught between a momma and her baby moose.

That is just as or more likely to occur in your back yard in Anchorage as in the wilds.

People are noisy by nature and cant move quietly through the woods. Moose may hear you and move on. How ever in town, they are use to noise and don't move.
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Old December 1, 2016, 10:54 AM   #57
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QUOTE: "...Personally, I'd ignore the recommendations for a handgun and go with a pump shotgun..."

I don't see this as an "either or" situation. There's no reason why not to have a handgun and a shotgun/rifle with you. And a can of bear spay as well. Relying on a handgun instead of a more powerful long gun is appropriate on those many occasions when it's impractical to be carrying a shotgun or rifle.

I do wonder what the procedure is to take a handgun to Alaska if you plan on driving through Canada to get there? Years ago, I met a fellow who was driving to Alaska and his advice was to mail your handgun to a friend/relative/acquaintance/gun shop in Alaska. Any other ideas?
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Old December 1, 2016, 02:08 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by dludwig
Any other ideas?
The Alaskan Fish & Game Department has some ideas on it (about halfway down the page - FIREARMS IN CANADA), but according to most of the posts on this thread, you shouldn't take the advice of anyone!

http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm....transportguns
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Old December 1, 2016, 03:10 PM   #59
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I will add, walking around the wilds of Alaska (or in the cities for that matter) you are more likely to have to deal with grumpy moose then any bear. Those puppies are lightning quick. Nothing is more dangerous then being caught between a momma and her baby moose.
If folks would just focus on the facts which the OP gave us about his friend's activity up there, that would narrow the scope of this debate.

His friend WILL NOT be "walking around the wilds of Alaska." He'll be doing assorted construction tasks on site, and will have his hands occupied doing that work on site for most of the day.

Proceeding from that premise, advise the OP on an appropriate defensive firearm that's consistent with his friend's outdoor activity while up there ... Please.

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Old December 1, 2016, 03:51 PM   #60
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Since he is going with others best advice for surviving a bear attack is to make sure he can out run at least one other members of the group
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Old December 2, 2016, 09:04 AM   #61
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I won't comment on firearm choice as I have no knowledge or real-world experience from which to form an opinion.

What I would recommend is having everyone who's going to carry a firearm attend some sort of training program that deals with the cleaning and maintenance of the chosen gun, as well as engaging in stress-fire drills.

I wouldn't bet against Elmer Keith stopping a polar bear by shooting it through the mouth, I would bet that I couldn't do it.
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Old December 2, 2016, 10:19 AM   #62
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His friend WILL NOT be "walking around the wilds of Alaska." He'll be doing assorted construction tasks on site......
And that is the reason I interjected moose into the conversation. They CAN AND WILL be hanging around his construction site.... bears too, but moose will be more common.

Not only "the wilds", more people have been attacked in their yards, bike trails, city parks, etc then the "wilds".

I spent many of time setting at a school bus stop guarding kids waiting for a bus, do to a moose or bear being in the area.

In the "wilds" the animals will hear you long before you hear or spot them and more then likely, they will leave.

But in urban areas, back yards, "construction sites" there is constant noise which they seem to ignore.

As you mentioned, your hands will be busy, carrying what ever you carry in your daily lives, including tools, making a long gun totally impractical.

SD against dangerous animals is not a whole lot different the SD against two legged bandits. You can walk around in your daily lives with your gun in your hand, but you can carry it in a manner where its instantly available if needed.

As an example, in this picture, I wasn't hunting moose, I was sorting out a weather related traffic problem. This guy (who was causing the problem) decided to charge my police car. I was able to instantly draw my service revolver and stop him.



In urban areas of Alaska, moose vehicle encounters are quite common. The vehicles will most likely be disabled. The moose will be injured and MAD. The worse case is when the vehicle hits a calf, his momma isn't going to be happy. One should stay in there vehicle if possible, because if you get out to examine the damage, you most likely will have to do with an irate mother.
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Old December 3, 2016, 12:16 AM   #63
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Does limp wristing a Glock 10mm result in a jammed firearm? When I learned to shoot hanguns the grip that worked best for me was a gentle hold on the pistol and squeeze the trigger. That worked really well for the Ruger Standard and revolvers. But put a 45 ACP in my hands and limp wristing becomes a curse. So, if the OP's friend is accustomed to the rigid grip required to successfully fire a magazine of 10 mm, all is well. Otherwise, a wheelie seems more appropriate to me.
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Old December 3, 2016, 12:43 AM   #64
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One might also ask themselves whether a G20 or 629 is more easily and safely manipulated with heavy gloves on.
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Old December 4, 2016, 12:36 PM   #65
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I think the Glock 20 isn't a bad choice with proper loads. They are reliable and easy to shoot. I hope someone there knows how to disassemble and re-assemble one. Fairly easy but you have to pay attention.

If I were part of the crew going, I would take something I already own and that would likely be a S&W M57 Mountain Gun (41 mag) with hard cast bullets and regular loads for odds and ends. I would hope that there might be a few large caliber rifles at the camp.

I doubt they will need anything for self protection from bears, but it can happen. But it really depends on just where they are going and the bears that populate that area.
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Old December 4, 2016, 01:04 PM   #66
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A 357 Mag, 44 Mag, 10mm Glock all beat the hell out of playing dead ...

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Old December 5, 2016, 09:22 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by chuckscap
A 357 Mag, 44 Mag, 10mm Glock all beat the hell out of playing dead
I pity the fool that carries a 357 Sig, 41 Mag, 454 Casull, 480 Ruger, 500 S&W, etc, etc, and does not know that he should be playing dead.
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Old December 5, 2016, 11:06 AM   #68
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And I pity the unarmed fool that is trying to "play" dead while a bear is mauling him and not daring to holler "ouch" with every bite.
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Old December 5, 2016, 12:00 PM   #69
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I pity/feel sorry for anyone that is hurt by a bear regardless of what guns or pepper spray they might have with them.
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Old December 5, 2016, 12:33 PM   #70
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I never should have replied to this thread. It reminds me how much I hate bear threads. Some years ago I pledged to never get involved with another bear thread. Weakness led me here. If I was in Promise Keepers they'd kick me out.

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Old December 5, 2016, 09:04 PM   #71
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Shoot The Bear

Okay, ladies ...

http://www.pinrepair.com/arcade/shotbea.htm

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Old December 5, 2016, 09:46 PM   #72
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This seemed to work on a bear. Though I wouldn't recommend it.

http://www.ammoland.com/2014/11/what...#axzz4S1QLhbDY

As to the OP's question, when in Rome....

do as the Romans do.
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Old December 5, 2016, 10:15 PM   #73
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As to the OP's question, when in Rome ... do as the Romans do.
But they don't have huge bruins running wild in Rome, dudenal.

Just politicians. So maybe that's worse.
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Old December 6, 2016, 01:20 AM   #74
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This one is done.

If the OP doesn't have the answer he was looking for by now, he won't get it with the way this thread is turning out.

Closed.
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