Good Muzzleloader at low cost HELP

Blacktail_Slayer · May 26, 2011, 11:48 PM

I live in southwest washington state. I was drawn for a multiseason deer tag this year. That means I can hunt all 3, archery, modern firearm, and muzzleloader seasons, instead of having to pick one. I have a bow and rifle for the task, but no muzzleloader. I have one I can borrow but its also something I have wanted to have of my own. I don't believe I will switch to hunting muzzleloader exclusively, but you never know, I may fall in love with it. Also, the unit I hunt a lot is firearm restricted, archery, muzzleloader, shotgun, or revolver only. So that gives me a backup for my slug gun for hunting the modern firearm season in the unit. Since my use of a muzzleloader will just be occasional, I don't want to spend a alot. To fallow the state regulations to hunt in the muzzleloader season it must be open sights and I quote the regulations "Ignition is to be wheel lock, matchlock,
flintlock, or percussion using original
style percussion caps that fit on the
nipple and are exposed to the weather."
Any ideas on a good muzzleloader for the money? Under $300 would be ideal, I have seen many used and such for $100-$200. As long as I can be consistant on a deer size target to 100 yards I will be happy. That is due to most the area I hunt being close and longer shots being rare. Theres always some used ones at the local shops but I am far from an expert on muzzleloaders and dont know what to look for in some of the older, second hand, off brand ones they tend to have.
Thank you

Buzzcook · May 27, 2011, 01:07 AM

Double check on whether the modern in line muzzle loaders will work. They tend to be relatively less expensive.

Some of the older kit guns will be less expensive. Check gun broker for things like this, http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=231456120

arcticap · May 27, 2011, 02:21 AM

Several companies made modern inline rifles that meet the Washington requirements. However the ones that use #11 percussion caps are somewhat harder to identify and find because they're usually older models.
The most common ones have what are known as conventional or striker fired actions. These consist of a spring loaded bolt, often with a charger handle or pull handle for cocking.
The barrels usually have a fast twist rate for longer range accurate shooting with conicals and saboted bullets.
I mentioned these because they're can found used in the $100-$200 price range.
For instance the Thompson Center Black Diamond is one model that's available that can use 3 types of ignition caps: musket, 209 or #11 percussion.
Whether it came with all of nipples and conversion kit depends on when it was made.
Some of the older Black Diamonds simply came with a #11 nipple.
Another similar older model is the TC Thunderhawk which also uses a #11 cap.
These may have a slightly slower barrel twist rate but which is still considered to be a fast twist suitable for shooting conicals and saboted bullets. It may have a 1 in 32" twist instead of a 1 in 28" twist which is almost the same.
There's one Thunderhawk on Gunbroker right now that is reasonably priced at $149:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=231393074

There's other models to look for too but these are among the easiest to find that shoot accurately, are well built and a good value. TC guns carry a lifetime guarantee.

Hawg · May 27, 2011, 05:53 AM

Something like this is a better deal than a TC and it's just as good as a TC. I don't think any inline will work because of the exposure of nipple to weather clause.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=231612376

mykeal · May 27, 2011, 06:10 AM

That 'exposed to the weather' clause is just nuts. I understand it's purpose (to exclude the bolt action in-lines), but it means I couldn't use a mule's knee on my flintlock. That's just bizarre.

That Investarms Hawken that Hawg suggested would be an excellent choice ASSUMING THE BORE IS CLEAN. Ditto for a Lyman Great Plains Rifle; other good choices would be the Lyman Great Plains Hunter or Deerstalker. Traditions markets some less expensive but nice entry level rifles as well, although I consider them a bit lower on the quality scale.

Rifleman1776 · May 27, 2011, 08:27 AM

mykeal's suggestions are what I was going to say.
But, I would put my budgeted money in my pocket and start perusing pawn shops. Wherever you go check them out. Great bargains can often be found in pawn shops. Currently, with the modern-looking inlines so popular the factory made rifles of a more traditional design are often just sitting on the pawn shop racks. The owners of pawn shops like, and need, to turn over their stock. Do make offers, don't be afraid to offer 50% of asking and be willing to walk out. With tough, but courteous, negotiating you should be able to get just what you want.

Blacktail_Slayer · May 27, 2011, 10:21 AM

Thank you everyone. This has all been some very helpful info. Im getting excited. What would be a beginner load to start shooting in preperation for deer? I mean how many grains of poweder and such.

arcticap · May 27, 2011, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawg Haggen

I don't think any inline will work because of the exposure of nipple to weather clause.

I disagree.
The TC striker fired guns do have an exposed nippled and would meet the Washington requirement.
The bolt is quit far back when it's in the cocked position leaving the nipple totally exposed to the elements.
TC has a new northwest edition inline that simply doesn't fall into his price range.

arcticap · May 27, 2011, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blacktail_Slayer

I mean how many grains of poweder and such.

Usually 80 -100 grains of powder using a volume measure.
The amount depends on which rifle and projectile and how well it shoots.

Hawg · May 27, 2011, 12:41 PM

Quote:

The TC striker fired guns do have an exposed nippled and would meet the Washington requirement.
The bolt is quit far back when it's in the cocked position leaving the nipple totally exposed to the elements.

Maybe so, I don't know diddley squat about inlines. Do they have iron sights?

Pahoo · May 27, 2011, 01:00 PM

Inlines are also classified as "closed breech" and "open breech". The open breech would meet the Washington requirement where inlines like the TC Omega would not. An example of an open breach, would be the old knight, MK-85. There is a real fine line here and can see enforcement poblems for the DRN. Looks like the spirit of the law, encourages one to use a Side-Cocker and won't go wrong with that. ....

I have never seen and In-Line that did not have sights .......

Looks like you really have many choices here. So take your time and I'm sure you will have no problems finding what you want.

Be Safe !!!

Rifleman1776 · May 27, 2011, 02:14 PM

Blacktail Slayer, come back after you have found a rifle.
Tell us what caliber it is, whether you plan to use patched lead round balls, a bullet style projectile or what. And whether you want to use genuine black powder or one of the subsitutes.
Then, and only then, we can wisely, and safely, advise you on charges for your hunting.

Blacktail_Slayer · May 27, 2011, 05:31 PM

I really like the looks and reviews of Cabela's Sporterized Hawken. If I ended up having the extra money to spend, I might have to decide with that.
Other then that I have not found a side cock model I care for. I have been told by many I care too much about the looks of my gear haha. But I would take a hit on looks for a good weapon. The other models I have looked at are the Traditions Pursuit, TC Northwest Explorer, and CVA Elkhorn. All of which are at the top end of my budget new. But am keeping an eye out for used deals. I would like to be using a sabot style bullet, but from what I have been told, I still need to pick a weapon for sure first to know what exactly will work best.

troy_mclure · May 27, 2011, 09:05 PM

you can get a knight inline. they fall in the exposed nipple clause. they are fairly cheap, and very well built.

Erich · May 27, 2011, 09:22 PM

Old T/C Scouts are quite inexpensive (I've never paid over $125 for a mirror-bore used one - you should have no problem getting one, delivered, for $200 on GunBroker), and are accurate powerhouses (the .54s are amazing) that have the necessary nipple type.

troy_mclure · May 31, 2011, 10:33 AM

i just got a cva hawken off gunbroker for $122 shipped to my door.

the deals are there, you just have to look.

shafter · May 31, 2011, 05:32 PM

If I was gonna buy a muzzleloader specifically for hunting it would definately be a Thompson Center Hawken. Great reputation along with a stylish, historical look. Maybe not really historically accurate but nice looking all the same.
I see them used in good shape all the time for $250-$300.

May 27, 2011, 02:21 AM	#3
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	Several companies made modern inline rifles that meet the Washington requirements. However the ones that use #11 percussion caps are somewhat harder to identify and find because they're usually older models. The most common ones have what are known as conventional or striker fired actions. These consist of a spring loaded bolt, often with a charger handle or pull handle for cocking. The barrels usually have a fast twist rate for longer range accurate shooting with conicals and saboted bullets. I mentioned these because they're can found used in the $100-$200 price range. For instance the Thompson Center Black Diamond is one model that's available that can use 3 types of ignition caps: musket, 209 or #11 percussion. Whether it came with all of nipples and conversion kit depends on when it was made. Some of the older Black Diamonds simply came with a #11 nipple. Another similar older model is the TC Thunderhawk which also uses a #11 cap. These may have a slightly slower barrel twist rate but which is still considered to be a fast twist suitable for shooting conicals and saboted bullets. It may have a 1 in 32" twist instead of a 1 in 28" twist which is almost the same. There's one Thunderhawk on Gunbroker right now that is reasonably priced at $149: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=231393074 There's other models to look for too but these are among the easiest to find that shoot accurately, are well built and a good value. TC guns carry a lifetime guarantee. Last edited by arcticap; May 27, 2011 at 02:42 AM.

May 27, 2011, 09:05 PM	#14
troy_mclure Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: gulf of mexico Posts: 2,716	you can get a knight inline. they fall in the exposed nipple clause. they are fairly cheap, and very well built. __________________ There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

May 31, 2011, 10:33 AM	#16
troy_mclure Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: gulf of mexico Posts: 2,716	i just got a cva hawken off gunbroker for $122 shipped to my door. the deals are there, you just have to look. __________________ There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

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May 26, 2011, 11:48 PM	#1
Blacktail_Slayer Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2006 Posts: 224	Good Muzzleloader at low cost HELP I live in southwest washington state. I was drawn for a multiseason deer tag this year. That means I can hunt all 3, archery, modern firearm, and muzzleloader seasons, instead of having to pick one. I have a bow and rifle for the task, but no muzzleloader. I have one I can borrow but its also something I have wanted to have of my own. I don't believe I will switch to hunting muzzleloader exclusively, but you never know, I may fall in love with it. Also, the unit I hunt a lot is firearm restricted, archery, muzzleloader, shotgun, or revolver only. So that gives me a backup for my slug gun for hunting the modern firearm season in the unit. Since my use of a muzzleloader will just be occasional, I don't want to spend a alot. To fallow the state regulations to hunt in the muzzleloader season it must be open sights and I quote the regulations "Ignition is to be wheel lock, matchlock, flintlock, or percussion using original style percussion caps that fit on the nipple and are exposed to the weather." Any ideas on a good muzzleloader for the money? Under $300 would be ideal, I have seen many used and such for $100-$200. As long as I can be consistant on a deer size target to 100 yards I will be happy. That is due to most the area I hunt being close and longer shots being rare. Theres always some used ones at the local shops but I am far from an expert on muzzleloaders and dont know what to look for in some of the older, second hand, off brand ones they tend to have. Thank you

May 27, 2011, 01:07 AM	#2
Buzzcook Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2007 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 6,126	Double check on whether the modern in line muzzle loaders will work. They tend to be relatively less expensive. Some of the older kit guns will be less expensive. Check gun broker for things like this, http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=231456120

May 27, 2011, 05:53 AM	#4
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	Something like this is a better deal than a TC and it's just as good as a TC. I don't think any inline will work because of the exposure of nipple to weather clause. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=231612376

May 27, 2011, 06:10 AM	#5
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	That 'exposed to the weather' clause is just nuts. I understand it's purpose (to exclude the bolt action in-lines), but it means I couldn't use a mule's knee on my flintlock. That's just bizarre. That Investarms Hawken that Hawg suggested would be an excellent choice ASSUMING THE BORE IS CLEAN. Ditto for a Lyman Great Plains Rifle; other good choices would be the Lyman Great Plains Hunter or Deerstalker. Traditions markets some less expensive but nice entry level rifles as well, although I consider them a bit lower on the quality scale.

May 27, 2011, 08:27 AM	#6
Rifleman1776 Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 3,309	mykeal's suggestions are what I was going to say. But, I would put my budgeted money in my pocket and start perusing pawn shops. Wherever you go check them out. Great bargains can often be found in pawn shops. Currently, with the modern-looking inlines so popular the factory made rifles of a more traditional design are often just sitting on the pawn shop racks. The owners of pawn shops like, and need, to turn over their stock. Do make offers, don't be afraid to offer 50% of asking and be willing to walk out. With tough, but courteous, negotiating you should be able to get just what you want.

May 27, 2011, 10:21 AM	#7
Blacktail_Slayer Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2006 Posts: 224	Thank you everyone. This has all been some very helpful info. Im getting excited. What would be a beginner load to start shooting in preperation for deer? I mean how many grains of poweder and such.

May 27, 2011, 01:00 PM	#11
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	Inlines are also classified as "closed breech" and "open breech". The open breech would meet the Washington requirement where inlines like the TC Omega would not. An example of an open breach, would be the old knight, MK-85. There is a real fine line here and can see enforcement poblems for the DRN. Looks like the spirit of the law, encourages one to use a Side-Cocker and won't go wrong with that. .... I have never seen and In-Line that did not have sights ....... Looks like you really have many choices here. So take your time and I'm sure you will have no problems finding what you want. Be Safe !!!

May 27, 2011, 02:14 PM	#12
Rifleman1776 Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 3,309	Blacktail Slayer, come back after you have found a rifle. Tell us what caliber it is, whether you plan to use patched lead round balls, a bullet style projectile or what. And whether you want to use genuine black powder or one of the subsitutes. Then, and only then, we can wisely, and safely, advise you on charges for your hunting.

May 27, 2011, 05:31 PM	#13
Blacktail_Slayer Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2006 Posts: 224	I really like the looks and reviews of Cabela's Sporterized Hawken. If I ended up having the extra money to spend, I might have to decide with that. Other then that I have not found a side cock model I care for. I have been told by many I care too much about the looks of my gear haha. But I would take a hit on looks for a good weapon. The other models I have looked at are the Traditions Pursuit, TC Northwest Explorer, and CVA Elkhorn. All of which are at the top end of my budget new. But am keeping an eye out for used deals. I would like to be using a sabot style bullet, but from what I have been told, I still need to pick a weapon for sure first to know what exactly will work best.

May 27, 2011, 09:22 PM	#15
Erich Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 1999 Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA Posts: 2,543	Old T/C Scouts are quite inexpensive (I've never paid over $125 for a mirror-bore used one - you should have no problem getting one, delivered, for $200 on GunBroker), and are accurate powerhouses (the .54s are amazing) that have the necessary nipple type.

May 31, 2011, 05:32 PM	#17
shafter Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2009 Posts: 1,624	If I was gonna buy a muzzleloader specifically for hunting it would definately be a Thompson Center Hawken. Great reputation along with a stylish, historical look. Maybe not really historically accurate but nice looking all the same. I see them used in good shape all the time for $250-$300.