300 win mag verses 300 wsm

Wendyj · February 3, 2016, 05:44 PM

I've got a Savage 16 in 300 wsm. So so for groups. I don't shoot it but husband does. We've been looking at a 300 win mag in a Remington 700 milspec. 5 R rifling and HS Pecision stick. The one we have and one he likes are both threaded for a compensated or brake. The barrel is a little heavier on the Remington with a bdl magazine. The Savage we have is blind box and no accutrigger but has been reworked to 2.75 lbs. Remington is also fluted. Any pluses or pros and cons on either caliber. We're reloading with 4451 under 180 grain for the Savage. Will also buy dies and reload for the 300 win mag if he decides to get it. He wants this for 1000 -1500 yard shooting at steel. The wsm is chrono graphing 2928 at the muzzle.

AllenJ · February 3, 2016, 06:52 PM

The WSM is said to be more inherently accurate due to it being shorter but in all honesty I believe it would take an elite shooter to see any difference with like rifles. I do believe, reading what you wrote about the Remington, it should be more accurate with the 5R barrel and better stock than your Savage, but that is just a guess. The only real test would be on the range of course.

jmr40 · February 3, 2016, 07:37 PM

I've had both and really like the WSM much better. There were some issues with ammo availability and price for a while, but recently the cost of factory loads is the same and I cannot remember the last time I was in a store that carried one and not the other. If you hand load WSM is a tad cheaper since it uses about 10-12 gr less powder per load.

The 300WM looks better on paper than in reality. The actual speed of 2928 you're getting is about right for typical hand loads. But from 24" barrels most 300 WM's won't make 3000 fps, you need 26-28" to really get the best from the 300 WM. The 300 WSM does just fine at 24" and not bad at all from 22" or even shorter.

No matter how you look at it the 300 WM is going to be about 50 fps faster with the best loads. And with the BEST loads the WSM can reach 3050-3100 fps and the 300 WM 3100-3150 with 180's. But if your're gonna shoot that far you need to be using 210-215 gr target bullets. Since the WSM is about 50 fps slower, and uses 10-12 gr powder you're gonna have about 15-20% less recoil with the 300 WSM.

Basically you're trading 3-4 ft lbs of recoil for 50 fps, which is more important to you? As a hunting rifle the 300 WSM offers near 300 WM performance in a 308 size and weight package with hot 30-06 recoil. It is also proving to be very accurate.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...-with-300-wsm/

The rifle plays a part in the decision too. Do you like the Remington better than the Savage? Actual performance is pretty close.

Wendyj · February 4, 2016, 02:10 PM

The Savage is doing ok but it needs a heavier barrel. It's really hot after 3 rounds but still doesn't throw a flyer until the 5th.

old roper · February 6, 2016, 09:47 AM

I've shot both in customs and it's just a myth that WSM is more accurate. Myself I think 300WSM is best with 26" barrel and it run pretty close or equal to 300mag with 26" barrel.

Last 300WSM I had Kreiger 1/11.25 twist 5r barrel @ 26" put on. 300 mag I had Lilja 1/11 twist barrel @ 26" put on. When I downsized, both rifles now reside with my nephew.

I know nothing about the Savage rifles other than I read on some sites, but you may want to get new barrel for that Savage in 300WSM @ 26".

samsmix · February 7, 2016, 03:34 PM

The WSM starts falling behind when the bullet weights start going up, but it saves some weight in the gun when a long hike is anticipated. The Win Mag starts falling off as the barrel gets shorter. Since your stated purpose is 1000-1500 yard steel, you'll neither have to worry about hiking, or short barrels. I think at some point you are going to end up shooting heavier than 180gr bullets, or that you might at least want to retain the option.

As such, I'd be all about the Win Mag.

Wendyj · February 7, 2016, 08:00 PM

Thanks for replies. I think were going to go with the Remington milspec in 300 mag

ballisti · February 7, 2016, 08:25 PM

I agree with Old Roper on the accuracy issue. I have owned the 300 and 338WM's, and a 270WSM... All three were very accurate with the right load.

4runnerman · February 7, 2016, 08:36 PM

While I can not comment on the 300, I can tell you it is NOT a myth of SM shooting more accurate, that is just a fact. More consistant powder burn every shot. That alone gives a much better and much closer MV. Which in turn gives you more and consistant accuracy down range. While the SM was intended to just be shot in a shor action, one of the side affects is a more accurate catridge.
That carries over when matching cartridge for cartridge. 243 VS 243 SM, ect.
Sorry Roper- Have to disagree with you on that one.

Mobuck · February 8, 2016, 07:38 AM

I shot an 11 pound 300 WM target rifle for several years (even took it elk hunting-let the horse carry it). It was as accurate as I and I was pretty good back then. The individual rifle is more important than simply comparing cartridges so I couldn't say which is preferable. Although the WSM is purported to be "more inherently accurate", the 300WM won a lot of matches in it's day. Mostly,it boils down to a preference issue: long action or short? Keep in mind short action doesn't offer the scope mounting length for some of the long range type scopes.

ballisti · February 8, 2016, 08:23 AM

It is true that the SM cases are much less picky about powder and load, and because of that are easier to find an accurate max loading for - and are waaaay better for reduced loads.

- BUT if you take the bit of extra trouble to find the right max load with a WM case, it will be just as accurate as a max load in a SM.

I prefer the SM case because it is more versatile. The WM case rifles I have owned though have been plenty accurate, and with the bigger boiler room they are of course going to be slightly more powerful.

The SM cartridge that amazes me is the 325WSM, when compared to the enormous 8mm Rem mag. - Talk about efficiency!

4runnerman · February 8, 2016, 06:08 PM

Mobuck- I have never found a short action that will not take a long range scope as you say. All of my F Class rigs are short action and all have long range scopes on them. Also- Most if not all top shooters are going with short fat ( SM for any other name ) cases due to the accuracy that is gained in that case. You match barrel for barrel, best shooter for best shooter and the SM is going to out shoot the other-always. It is not a Myth. How much better?. That is still undetermined, but the fact remains that it still will. Now that is not saying that you can not get a Mag to shoot very accurate at all. They are also very accurate. Yes the 300WM as you say-Won lots of matches, but also as you said-In it's day. Those days are gone. Short,Fat cartriges are now the way to go. 6MM, 6.5, 30BRX, ect ect.

Llama Bob · February 8, 2016, 07:57 PM

I have that exact 700. In my opinion the recoil is very unpleasant. I'm planning to sell it because I'll never target shoot it in favor of my 6.5 Creedmoor and never hunt it because of my 7mm mag. It does shoot lights-out though.

February 3, 2016, 05:44 PM	#1
Wendyj Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2015 Location: North Georgia Posts: 1,372	300 win mag verses 300 wsm I've got a Savage 16 in 300 wsm. So so for groups. I don't shoot it but husband does. We've been looking at a 300 win mag in a Remington 700 milspec. 5 R rifling and HS Pecision stick. The one we have and one he likes are both threaded for a compensated or brake. The barrel is a little heavier on the Remington with a bdl magazine. The Savage we have is blind box and no accutrigger but has been reworked to 2.75 lbs. Remington is also fluted. Any pluses or pros and cons on either caliber. We're reloading with 4451 under 180 grain for the Savage. Will also buy dies and reload for the 300 win mag if he decides to get it. He wants this for 1000 -1500 yard shooting at steel. The wsm is chrono graphing 2928 at the muzzle. __________________ God is NOT dead!!!!

February 4, 2016, 02:10 PM	#4
Wendyj Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2015 Location: North Georgia Posts: 1,372	The Savage is doing ok but it needs a heavier barrel. It's really hot after 3 rounds but still doesn't throw a flyer until the 5th. __________________ God is NOT dead!!!!

February 6, 2016, 09:47 AM	#5
old roper Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2007 Posts: 2,155	I've shot both in customs and it's just a myth that WSM is more accurate. Myself I think 300WSM is best with 26" barrel and it run pretty close or equal to 300mag with 26" barrel. Last 300WSM I had Kreiger 1/11.25 twist 5r barrel @ 26" put on. 300 mag I had Lilja 1/11 twist barrel @ 26" put on. When I downsized, both rifles now reside with my nephew. I know nothing about the Savage rifles other than I read on some sites, but you may want to get new barrel for that Savage in 300WSM @ 26". __________________ Semper Fi Vietnam 1965 VFW Life member NRA Life Member

February 7, 2016, 03:34 PM	#6
samsmix Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2006 Location: Montana (Montucky?) Posts: 1,273	The WSM starts falling behind when the bullet weights start going up, but it saves some weight in the gun when a long hike is anticipated. The Win Mag starts falling off as the barrel gets shorter. Since your stated purpose is 1000-1500 yard steel, you'll neither have to worry about hiking, or short barrels. I think at some point you are going to end up shooting heavier than 180gr bullets, or that you might at least want to retain the option. As such, I'd be all about the Win Mag. __________________ You'll probably never NEED a gun. I hope you never do. But IF you do, you will need it worse than anything you've ever needed in your life. IF we're not supposed to eat animals, howcome God made 'em outta meat?

February 7, 2016, 08:00 PM	#7
Wendyj Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2015 Location: North Georgia Posts: 1,372	Thanks for replies. I think were going to go with the Remington milspec in 300 mag __________________ God is NOT dead!!!!

February 3, 2016, 06:52 PM	#2
AllenJ Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2009 Location: Northern California Posts: 1,766	The WSM is said to be more inherently accurate due to it being shorter but in all honesty I believe it would take an elite shooter to see any difference with like rifles. I do believe, reading what you wrote about the Remington, it should be more accurate with the 5R barrel and better stock than your Savage, but that is just a guess. The only real test would be on the range of course.

February 3, 2016, 07:37 PM	#3
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,809	I've had both and really like the WSM much better. There were some issues with ammo availability and price for a while, but recently the cost of factory loads is the same and I cannot remember the last time I was in a store that carried one and not the other. If you hand load WSM is a tad cheaper since it uses about 10-12 gr less powder per load. The 300WM looks better on paper than in reality. The actual speed of 2928 you're getting is about right for typical hand loads. But from 24" barrels most 300 WM's won't make 3000 fps, you need 26-28" to really get the best from the 300 WM. The 300 WSM does just fine at 24" and not bad at all from 22" or even shorter. No matter how you look at it the 300 WM is going to be about 50 fps faster with the best loads. And with the BEST loads the WSM can reach 3050-3100 fps and the 300 WM 3100-3150 with 180's. But if your're gonna shoot that far you need to be using 210-215 gr target bullets. Since the WSM is about 50 fps slower, and uses 10-12 gr powder you're gonna have about 15-20% less recoil with the 300 WSM. Basically you're trading 3-4 ft lbs of recoil for 50 fps, which is more important to you? As a hunting rifle the 300 WSM offers near 300 WM performance in a 308 size and weight package with hot 30-06 recoil. It is also proving to be very accurate. http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...-with-300-wsm/ The rifle plays a part in the decision too. Do you like the Remington better than the Savage? Actual performance is pretty close.

February 7, 2016, 08:25 PM	#8
ballisti Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2016 Posts: 144	I agree with Old Roper on the accuracy issue. I have owned the 300 and 338WM's, and a 270WSM... All three were very accurate with the right load.

February 7, 2016, 08:36 PM	#9
4runnerman Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,577	While I can not comment on the 300, I can tell you it is NOT a myth of SM shooting more accurate, that is just a fact. More consistant powder burn every shot. That alone gives a much better and much closer MV. Which in turn gives you more and consistant accuracy down range. While the SM was intended to just be shot in a shor action, one of the side affects is a more accurate catridge. That carries over when matching cartridge for cartridge. 243 VS 243 SM, ect. Sorry Roper- Have to disagree with you on that one. __________________ NRA Certified RSO NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional

February 8, 2016, 07:38 AM	#10
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	I shot an 11 pound 300 WM target rifle for several years (even took it elk hunting-let the horse carry it). It was as accurate as I and I was pretty good back then. The individual rifle is more important than simply comparing cartridges so I couldn't say which is preferable. Although the WSM is purported to be "more inherently accurate", the 300WM won a lot of matches in it's day. Mostly,it boils down to a preference issue: long action or short? Keep in mind short action doesn't offer the scope mounting length for some of the long range type scopes.

February 8, 2016, 08:23 AM	#11
ballisti Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2016 Posts: 144	It is true that the SM cases are much less picky about powder and load, and because of that are easier to find an accurate max loading for - and are waaaay better for reduced loads. - BUT if you take the bit of extra trouble to find the right max load with a WM case, it will be just as accurate as a max load in a SM. I prefer the SM case because it is more versatile. The WM case rifles I have owned though have been plenty accurate, and with the bigger boiler room they are of course going to be slightly more powerful. The SM cartridge that amazes me is the 325WSM, when compared to the enormous 8mm Rem mag. - Talk about efficiency!

February 8, 2016, 06:08 PM	#12
4runnerman Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,577	Mobuck- I have never found a short action that will not take a long range scope as you say. All of my F Class rigs are short action and all have long range scopes on them. Also- Most if not all top shooters are going with short fat ( SM for any other name ) cases due to the accuracy that is gained in that case. You match barrel for barrel, best shooter for best shooter and the SM is going to out shoot the other-always. It is not a Myth. How much better?. That is still undetermined, but the fact remains that it still will. Now that is not saying that you can not get a Mag to shoot very accurate at all. They are also very accurate. Yes the 300WM as you say-Won lots of matches, but also as you said-In it's day. Those days are gone. Short,Fat cartriges are now the way to go. 6MM, 6.5, 30BRX, ect ect. __________________ NRA Certified RSO NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional

February 8, 2016, 07:57 PM	#13
Llama Bob Senior Member Join Date: January 13, 2016 Posts: 337	I have that exact 700. In my opinion the recoil is very unpleasant. I'm planning to sell it because I'll never target shoot it in favor of my 6.5 Creedmoor and never hunt it because of my 7mm mag. It does shoot lights-out though.