Ithaca Over and Under Safety Question

Bucksnort1 · December 4, 2023, 11:20 PM

I have an SKB, 12 gauge, over and under I purchased in 1967. It's the only double barrel shotgun I've used where the safety does not engage when breaking open the gun. It has never done this.

Was this gun designed to do this?

rc · December 5, 2023, 08:39 AM

If the safety works when you apply it, then I would believe that was normal. I don't know of any firearm that has auto engaging safety but my experiences are limited to things I've shot. An old Savage O/U did not have auto safety. It is much more common on break barrel springer air guns.

eastbank · December 5, 2023, 09:46 AM

the auto safety may have been disabled, for shooting the clay games, pushing the safety off every time you shoot is a pain in the rear. for the absent minded hunter it may be a virtue, when reloading on the move after missing your shots.

jaguarxk120 · December 5, 2023, 10:20 AM

What eastbank has said!!

All of my O/U's have manual safeties.

Bucksnort1 · December 5, 2023, 12:50 PM

I had a side by side 20 gauge, brand evades me, that would go to safety when opened.

**44 AMP** · December 5, 2023, 05:16 PM

Not that this has a direct application to what you have, but might give you an idea how/what the makers were thinking...

I have my Grandfather's Ithaca 12ga SxS that he had made to his order (stock. barrel length, chokes) in 1909.

Double triggers (of course) and it has a 3 position safety. Other guns of that era I have seen don't.

Center is safe, forward is fire, and if you break open the gun, it moves from fire to safe.

However there is a third position, all the way back, the gun is on "fire" and it does NOT go on safe if you open the action.

O/U guns are often used for trap & skeet, it is entirely possible (and I think likely) your gun was originally, and intentionally made so that the safety was NOT automatic when the gun is opened.

People often thought in different terms back then, and I think Ithaca figured it was perfectly fine the way they made it. If you wanted the safety on, you put it on. It didn't go on by itself, possibly getting in the shooter's way. Missing the next bird or clay pigeon because the safety put itself on, and the shooter didn't realize it was a worse "sin" than the tiny risk of not having the safety on, until the shooter put it on.

It is possible the gun came from the factory with the automatic safety and some previous owner had that feature deactivated, I don't know that model gun well enough to say, but I think it most likely it didn't come with the automatic safety. Its possible that back then the automatic safety (going on safe when the action is opened) was an option, and the gun was simply ordered without that option.

Its not as flaw, its a feature.

FITASC · December 6, 2023, 11:13 AM

My SKBs have never had an automatic safety - a feature I prefer; NONE of my shotguns from a variety of makers have an automatic safety - they aren't needed. Want the safety on? Push it on; want it off, push it off

Ricklin · December 6, 2023, 01:43 PM

My LC Smith SBT has no safety at all, a very good thing. A safety on a dedicated SBT gun is right up there with tits on a boar hog with regard to usefulness.

Jim Watson · December 6, 2023, 04:29 PM

SKB general owner's manual says:

Side-By-Side
Automatic Safety
Opening the action automatically engages the safety. For firing position, push the safety lever forward.

Over/Under
Manual Safety
Move the safety lever to the rear position to engage safety. For firing position, push the safety lever forward.

Bucksnort1 · December 6, 2023, 11:29 PM

Jim Watson,

Thank you. This means the gun has not functioned properly from day one.

FITASC · December 7, 2023, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Jim Watson,

Thank you. This means the gun has not functioned properly from day one.

No that's not what it means

Quote:

I have an SKB, 12 gauge, over and under

Quote:

Over/Under
Manual Safety
Move the safety lever to the rear position to engage safety. For firing position, push the safety lever forward.

It means it has always functioned properly since day 1

FITASC · December 7, 2023, 03:28 PM

And if you don't want it, take some pics, put the specs with the pics in the classifieds and I am sure it will sell quickly if priced right

jrothWA · December 11, 2023, 02:42 PM

The late ownwe was Les Hovencamp, who was the Cheif Engineer at Ithaca.

I believe the Son has open the business, he might know what to do.

SKB were imported by Ithaca in the 60's.

Good Luck, you might need a simple cleaning and Lubrication.

stinkeypete · December 11, 2023, 05:10 PM

Changing the safety from automatic to manual engagement is a very easy and common modification.

Some people don't like the firearm changing status by itself. Others like the safety to go on after closing the breech.

SKB is still in business, although now they import shotguns from some top tier factories (Akus and Akdas) in Turkey instead of Japan. Easy to find on Google.

(not all Turkish shotguns are built as cheaply as possible, just like every American cheeseburger isn't excellent.)

Stiofan · December 13, 2023, 10:23 PM

I have a Fox/Savage side by side from the early 60s that has an automatic safety, but my Ithica over/under from the 70s period only has a manual safety.

jaguarxk120 · December 14, 2023, 09:30 AM

My question is how many pumps, and autoloading shotguns have
automatic safeties?
At the trap range safeties are not used, since guns are not loaded till
the shooter is at the firing point.

eastbank · December 14, 2023, 10:42 AM

none that i know of, but i do have a remington single shot 510-x .22 that when you work the bolt it also pushes the safety back on.

**44 AMP** · December 14, 2023, 12:32 PM

Quote:

My question is how many pumps, and autoloading shotguns have
automatic safeties?

None. Because no one would buy them.

Note that the automatic safety feature is only found in break open guns. Single shots, doubles and O/U. The safety is operated by the action being opened.

How many people are going to want a pump or semi auto where the safety goes on every time the action is opened, and because of that would have to be moved to off every single shot??

Nobody wants that, nobody would buy that, it kinda goes a long way to negating the utility of a repeater.

Ricklin · December 18, 2023, 09:51 PM

I really consider trap to be so highly evolved over the couple centuries it has been shot that it really does makes a safety superfluous thanks to well defined rules and procedures.. This is a good thing, the safety is between our ears.

FITASC · December 19, 2023, 04:52 PM

The same holds true for any clay game, as well as pigeons and Helice. Even hunting, if you want the safety on, put it on, leave the decision to the person handling the gun.

Jim Watson · December 19, 2023, 05:23 PM

Quote:

I really consider trap to be so highly evolved over the couple centuries it has been shot that it really does makes a safety superfluous thanks to well defined rules and procedures.

I have not seen a single barrel trap gun with a safety catch at all.

There was a report of a cheat going down the gun rack at a trapshoot flipping on the safeties of pumps, autos, and O/Us. Nobody ever used a safety and did not check, they just shouldered a locked gun, called Pull!, and could not get off a shot. At high levels of Trap, you will not likely recover from missing the first bird.

I took the cross bolt safety off my 1100 TA

December 4, 2023, 11:20 PM	#1
Bucksnort1 Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2013 Location: Littleton, Colorado Posts: 1,121	Ithaca Over and Under Safety Question I have an SKB, 12 gauge, over and under I purchased in 1967. It's the only double barrel shotgun I've used where the safety does not engage when breaking open the gun. It has never done this. Was this gun designed to do this?

December 5, 2023, 05:16 PM	#6
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,862	Not that this has a direct application to what you have, but might give you an idea how/what the makers were thinking... I have my Grandfather's Ithaca 12ga SxS that he had made to his order (stock. barrel length, chokes) in 1909. Double triggers (of course) and it has a 3 position safety. Other guns of that era I have seen don't. Center is safe, forward is fire, and if you break open the gun, it moves from fire to safe. However there is a third position, all the way back, the gun is on "fire" and it does NOT go on safe if you open the action. O/U guns are often used for trap & skeet, it is entirely possible (and I think likely) your gun was originally, and intentionally made so that the safety was NOT automatic when the gun is opened. People often thought in different terms back then, and I think Ithaca figured it was perfectly fine the way they made it. If you wanted the safety on, you put it on. It didn't go on by itself, possibly getting in the shooter's way. Missing the next bird or clay pigeon because the safety put itself on, and the shooter didn't realize it was a worse "sin" than the tiny risk of not having the safety on, until the shooter put it on. It is possible the gun came from the factory with the automatic safety and some previous owner had that feature deactivated, I don't know that model gun well enough to say, but I think it most likely it didn't come with the automatic safety. Its possible that back then the automatic safety (going on safe when the action is opened) was an option, and the gun was simply ordered without that option. Its not as flaw, its a feature. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

December 6, 2023, 11:13 AM	#7
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,446	My SKBs have never had an automatic safety - a feature I prefer; NONE of my shotguns from a variety of makers have an automatic safety - they aren't needed. Want the safety on? Push it on; want it off, push it off __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

December 6, 2023, 01:43 PM	#8
Ricklin Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Location: SW Washington state Posts: 2,018	Or none at all My LC Smith SBT has no safety at all, a very good thing. A safety on a dedicated SBT gun is right up there with tits on a boar hog with regard to usefulness. __________________ ricklin Freedom is not free

December 7, 2023, 03:28 PM	#12
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,446	And if you don't want it, take some pics, put the specs with the pics in the classifieds and I am sure it will sell quickly if priced right __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

December 5, 2023, 08:39 AM	#2
rc Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2001 Location: CA Posts: 1,769	If the safety works when you apply it, then I would believe that was normal. I don't know of any firearm that has auto engaging safety but my experiences are limited to things I've shot. An old Savage O/U did not have auto safety. It is much more common on break barrel springer air guns.

December 5, 2023, 09:46 AM	#3
eastbank Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2008 Location: pa. Posts: 2,450	the auto safety may have been disabled, for shooting the clay games, pushing the safety off every time you shoot is a pain in the rear. for the absent minded hunter it may be a virtue, when reloading on the move after missing your shots.

December 5, 2023, 10:20 AM	#4
jaguarxk120 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,620	What eastbank has said!! All of my O/U's have manual safeties.

December 5, 2023, 12:50 PM	#5
Bucksnort1 Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2013 Location: Littleton, Colorado Posts: 1,121	I had a side by side 20 gauge, brand evades me, that would go to safety when opened.

December 6, 2023, 04:29 PM	#9
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,546	SKB general owner's manual says: Side-By-Side Automatic Safety Opening the action automatically engages the safety. For firing position, push the safety lever forward. Over/Under Manual Safety Move the safety lever to the rear position to engage safety. For firing position, push the safety lever forward.

December 6, 2023, 11:29 PM	#10
Bucksnort1 Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2013 Location: Littleton, Colorado Posts: 1,121	Jim Watson, Thank you. This means the gun has not functioned properly from day one.

December 11, 2023, 02:42 PM	#13
jrothWA Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2006 Posts: 2,519	Look up Diamond Gunsmithing in Ithaca, NY. The late ownwe was Les Hovencamp, who was the Cheif Engineer at Ithaca. I believe the Son has open the business, he might know what to do. SKB were imported by Ithaca in the 60's. Good Luck, you might need a simple cleaning and Lubrication.

December 11, 2023, 05:10 PM	#14
stinkeypete Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2010 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 1,293	Changing the safety from automatic to manual engagement is a very easy and common modification. Some people don't like the firearm changing status by itself. Others like the safety to go on after closing the breech. SKB is still in business, although now they import shotguns from some top tier factories (Akus and Akdas) in Turkey instead of Japan. Easy to find on Google. (not all Turkish shotguns are built as cheaply as possible, just like every American cheeseburger isn't excellent.) __________________ My book "The Pheasant Hunter's Action Adventure Cookbook" is now on Amazon. Tall tales, hunting tips, butchering from bird to the freezer, and recipes.

December 13, 2023, 10:23 PM	#15
Stiofan Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2006 Location: Panhandle, Idaho Posts: 714	I have a Fox/Savage side by side from the early 60s that has an automatic safety, but my Ithica over/under from the 70s period only has a manual safety.

December 14, 2023, 09:30 AM	#16
jaguarxk120 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,620	My question is how many pumps, and autoloading shotguns have automatic safeties? At the trap range safeties are not used, since guns are not loaded till the shooter is at the firing point.

December 14, 2023, 10:42 AM	#17
eastbank Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2008 Location: pa. Posts: 2,450	none that i know of, but i do have a remington single shot 510-x .22 that when you work the bolt it also pushes the safety back on.

December 18, 2023, 09:51 PM	#19
Ricklin Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Location: SW Washington state Posts: 2,018	I really consider trap to be so highly evolved over the couple centuries it has been shot that it really does makes a safety superfluous thanks to well defined rules and procedures.. This is a good thing, the safety is between our ears. __________________ ricklin Freedom is not free

December 19, 2023, 04:52 PM	#20
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,446	The same holds true for any clay game, as well as pigeons and Helice. Even hunting, if you want the safety on, put it on, leave the decision to the person handling the gun. __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa