Questions concerning new tumbler / media set up

[DMY]

I have seen recent posts debating wet vs dry tumbling and other steps which reloaders take to clean their brass. I only reload .38 and .45 handgun cartridges. My (given to me) rotary tumbler just died and I am looking to replace it. I have a few specific questions and (as always) greatly appreciate the knowledgeable responses by most of you.

1. Other things being equal, such as using corn cobb or walnut media alone, how long does it typically take for a vibratory tumbler to clean 200 cases? My experience is that my rotary with corn cobb takes about 7 hours. I'm not sure about the RPMs, but I did not question a free tumbler which lasted 30+ years.

2. Again, trying to compare apples with apples, is there any time savings using a rotary tumbler with steel pins vs a rotary tumbler with corn cobb or walnut?

3. Do you have to use steel pins with some type of liquid or can you use it as a dry media by itself? I have read posts with various liquid additives. I have not seen any specific reference to using steel pins without a liquid additive. I am interested in the possibility that using steel pins will eliminate the need to manually clean primer pockets and poke smaller bits of dry media out of flash holes. However, my preference would is to clean primer pockets & poke the bits out of flash holes compared to having to dry cases because I also use the opportunity to inspect the cases.

4. I have never personally seen the steel pins used as tumbling media. Are there different diameters and/or lengths of steel pins? Also, are stainless steel pins make entirely of stainless steel or are they just coated? If so, which ones are best suited for handgun cartridges and where can I buy them for a relatively inexpensive price? I read that some stainless steel pins are attracted to a magnet for separation implying that other stainless pins may not be receptive to a magnet.

5. I have never used my dry media with any type of additive. Can you add some type of polishing compound to corn cobb or walnut media to either speed up the cleaning process or to make it more effective? My dry tumbler gets most of the cases shiny and clean to the touch. However, some of the deeper soot marks are not removed. It is just a cosmetic thing and I doubt it will influence my next choice of tumbler.

6. Are all tumblers (rotary and vibration) suited for wet and dry media? Are all tumblers suited for possible increased abrasion from steel pins?

Thanks for your anticipated responses.

[Sky Master]

Never used rotary tumbler with steel pins. I use 2 Battenfeld Quick-n-EZ vibrator tumbler with walnut media from Harbor Freight and some NuFinish car polish. Works great for me. Connected to a timer and let it go. Some take 2hrs some take more depending on how dirty the cases are or how bright you want them.

[4runnerman]

Ditto what Sky just said-PS it's called Zilla bedding. 1/4 the cost of buying tumblig media. 20Lbs for $12.00.

[condor bravo]

Surprising this thread hasn't received more mileage but the topic has been covered a number of times. However I will add a little to keep it going. If you are interested in using the dry media mentioned in the above posts, the Zilla Ground English Walnut Shells, also known as lizard litter, with the New Finish auto polish as an additive, is popular and often used by forum members. The litter is very fine in texture, more so than the usual ground corn cob and walnut shell media, and is available at pet stores, reasonably priced as noted above. It's usually also mentioned that cut up strips of dryer sheets can be added during tumbling to pick up accumulated dust. Perhaps not necessary to use the dryer sheets every time, but every 2nd or 3rd time. The media is long lasting, does not need frequent replacement, but the auto polish needs to be updated after a number of tumblings that will vary with usage. Tumbling times can be anywhere around the clock depending on the individual. Some report one to two hours while others report six or seven even. I'm well satisfied with tumbling 100 cases of rifle brass for 90 minutes.

[849ACSO]

Unless you walk away and forget for 30+ hours, then have a hard time figuring what the noise is you hear coming from your machine shed...........The brass gets REALLY shiny.....................

Seriously, the vibratory tumbler with dry media and some liquid car polish works well. I find my times vary, but 2-4 hours with a couple hundred 45 ACP shells seems to work well for me, provided I haven't "soiled" them with dirty powder and light loads.

[Sky Master]

Which is why I put a timer on mine

[849ACSO]

I have kicked around a timer, but just never got around to it...... should though.

[cw308]

DMY, I just switched to wet tumbler with Stainless Steel Pins. The tumblers you can see how they work by going on line Cleaning brass with stainless steel pins,I've been cleaning brass for years with corn & walnut media, all you need is a rotary tumbler, water , pins, dawn dish detergent & lemiShine. Pins never go bad. Your brass will look like new inside & out. The tumblers can be pricey, look at the Harbor Freigh tumbler with two 3 lb drums they go for around 54 dollars , I use the single 3 lb I'm only cleaning 40 308 cases maximum at a time , the pins come from STM stainless steel media . com all you would need is a 2 lb. Replenisher pins & lemiShine for $ 15, 1lb. of pins in each 3lb.drum & your set. Hope I helped.

[Bucksnort1]

Condor, Sky and others,

Several years ago, I added a commercial polishing agent, specifically made for adding to media, I bought at a gun show to my vibrator (that would be my brass cleaning vibrator). Not knowing how much to add, I may have added too much because immediately, the media began clumping. I had to trash the media and start again without the additive.

How much NuFinish are you adding?

A lesson I learned, recently, is to not leave the cover off the vibrator while it's doing its thing, especially if you are adding jewelers rouge to your media. I am still cleaning red fine dust from various surfaces.

By the way Condor, one or two of my first M-1 thumbs came while in R.O.T.C. then, I know I had at least one M-14 thumb while in the Army.

[condor bravo]

Pogy;

Yes you will get the clumping with the NuFinish which should be broken down before adding brass. To speed this process, my suggestion is to break up the clumps with the fingers while the tumbler is running empty with only media. I add several capfulls of the polish at one time, probably more than others add. Just make sure it is broken up before adding brass or you can end up with a mess like polish clumping in the cases and difficult to extract.

But congratulations on two M-1 thumbs as well as an M-14 and surviving to tell the tale. You're a better man than I am.

[jmorris]

I have walnut and corncob vibratory tumblers and rotary style wet tumblers for stainless steel.

3-4 hours is how long I let the vibratory tumblers run. I add polish from time to time.

I have only used SS wet but it will have the brass done in 30 min to an hour. Then you have to rinse and dry.

It is less work to do the dry method and it looks just as good once loaded.

Some tumblers are not to be used wet, if you don't know for sure, ask before you buy.

[jmorris]

This is a $35 12.7 gallon wet rotary tumbler I built from two old 100lb chlorine buckets and an eBay gear motor.



It will clean a few thousand at a time. This is its first run with a gallon of .223 and a hundred 458 socom.



I also built 3 of these really big ones. They run 15 gallons of brass in them, they use a gantry crane to load/unload them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlZOYjmAnO0

[F. Guffey]

I use tumbling media and nothing. For the worst of cases I use vinegar for 15 minutes maximum for the life of the case. In the big inning I use an acid that is no longer available. The maximum time for that one was 2 minutes followed by rinsing in boiling water. The rinsing process required two risings. When finished the cases turned black.

For short runs I use a spinner, I always take one set of loaded spun cases to the range 'JIC'.

Cleaning cases in vinegar reduces the effort and time to clean the worst of cases. There is a problem, the vinegar residue must be removed, I know, reloaders have an exemption when it comes to using an acid when cleaning cases. I do not have 'the exemption'. I do not add salt when using vinegar, I have never found it to be necessary, again, same for tumbling media, I tumble with media and nothing.

When using stainless pins and wonder how the cases are being cleaned, leave out the acid.

F. Guffey

[Bucksnort1]

Condor,

Thanks for the clumping information on the car wax. When it happened to me, I didn't think to un-clump the clumps.

[DMY]

Thanks again for the great information everyone. Yesterday, I went to the LGS and purchased a Franklin Arsenal Quick N EZ vibrating tumbler (probably the same one referred to as the Battenfeld in one of the responses). My guess is that it is a 4 or 5 pound model which indicates it can clean (300) .38 cases. Dumped in the contents of my broken rotary tumbler (150 +/- cases of .45 acp and corn cobb media) and fired it up.

My first observation was that after 20 minutes or so, the cases seemed to be floating on top and around the perimeter of the tumbler with the case mouth facing up. Approximately 1/8" of the case mouth was above the level of the media as it circled the tumbler. The media was vibrating inside the cases and some of the cases would make their way to towards the center of the bowl and was pushed down into the media.

My second observation was that the brass was "clean" after an hour or so, but didn't sparkle like my rotary. I ran it for 3+ hours. I always clean my brass before I reload it, so it wasn't filthy at the start and had already tumble them an hour or more in my rotary before putting them in the vibrating tumbler.

I have two additional questions, if I may so impose:

1. Can you use steel pins with a "little liquid" in a vibrating tumbling which warns not to use liquid media? If so, do you have any recommendations as the minimum amount of liquid that I can use with 2 - 3 pounds of pins?

2. For those of you who use one or two caps of Nu-Finish, is that the car polish or car wax? I saw both references. I know I have seen Nu-Finish car wax in a liquid form which has a cap. I can't remember seeing Nu-Finish car polish and don't know whether it comes in a liquid form or whether it comes in a paste like many car polishes.

Thanks again for all of your very helpful responses.

[condor bravo]

The Nu-Finish is the polish, not the wax, comes in a bright orange plastic container. It's normal for the cases to appear to be floating on the surface of the media with the case mouths up. I'm not at all familiar with the steel pins.

[308Loader]

I like to de-prime with universal, than tumble in the treated wall nut for an hour. This gets it clean enough to spray lube and resize. After resizing, to remove the lube and polish the brass I tumble in corn cob. Or better yet lizard litter from the pet store. The lizard litter is just a fine grain crushed wall nut, doesn't seem to plug flash holes. On the last tumble let them go as long as you want to get the shine you want. I've ben known to forget about them and go to bed, turn tumbler off in the am. Realistically to shine them up pretty good and remove the lube 3 hours. Make sure your tumbler is full to the max with media. If you want really, really clean brass, after all that toss'em in an ultrasonic cleaner, rinse well, let air dry for 24 hours+ or bake in your oven low temp.

[cw308]

That sounds good enough to eat.

[Sky Master]

I've had the cases around the perimeter too. When that happens it's either too many cases in the tumbler, (300 is too many) add a little at a time while it's running, too much Nu Finish (just take some out and add some new media, saving the stuff you took out for later) or dirty media.
Been there, done that.

[DMY]

I suspect I am telling a lot of more knowledgeable readers what you already know, but here are my observations after running 3 separate loads of .45 acp and partial running of a 4th load of .38s. My guestimate on the number of case per load were (1) 150 +/- rounds; (2) 100 +/- rounds; (3) 60 +/- rounds; and (4) 300 +/- rounds of .38s.

First observation: I ran load #1 for approximately 6 hours. They were "clean" after 3 hours, but I was hoping they would sparkle like when I tumbled them in the exact same corn cobb media for 7 hours. They never achieved "sparkling" and the primer pockets and inside of the cases still needed to be manually cleaned. This load also had many cases which seemed to float around the perimeter of the bowl with minimal submersion into the media.

Second observation: I replaced about 1/2 of the media with unused 10-year old RCBS corn cobb media with the included polishing powder additive for load #2. They achieved clean in 2 hours, but also never achieved sparkling. Same observation as #1 above concerning the inside of the cases and primer pockets. This smaller load did not have as many cases floating around the perimeter and they seemed to fully submerge into the media more readily. The media and cases did circle around the perimeter of the bowl, but there also appeared to be more agitation from the outside of the donut shape towards the center of the donut. This caused the cases to submerge more often.

Third observation: Only tumbled a small amount of cases. Achieved clean in 2 hours, but again no sparkle. The smaller quantity of cases seemed to submerge more readily and completely. There were almost no cases floating around the perimeter.

Partial Fourth observation: I am in the middle of tumbling approximately 300 .38 cases which is the maximum recommended by the manufacturer. Even though this is the largest load of cases, all of the cases seem to submerge. The cases which float around the perimeter seem to submerge towards the center after 3/4 of a rotation around the bowl. Only tumbled them for about 1.5 hours and haven't checked them to see if they are clean. I plan to purchase some Nu-Tone liquid polishing compound on the way home, dump the cases, mix in the Nu-Tone, tumble to mix in the polish, re-add the cases and continue tumbling the .38s.

Fifth observation: my 30+ year old used rotary tumbler made my cases sparkle with the same dry media, but it took about twice as long to tumble. Possibly regretting the purchase of my vibrating tumbler, but it only cost $50. The vibrating tumbler is more quiet, but it may be due to the fact that my rotary was old and abused. My next purchase may be a new rotary which gives me the option of using steel pins with some magical mixture of liquid which will hopefully clean the primer pockets and case interiors.

Again, thanks to the continued great responses from those with much more experience and knowledge than me. I am still pretty new to TFL, but continue to learn a lot.

[jmorris]

"Clean" is different than pretty and if a stain inside the case and in the primer pocket is going to bother you, do yourself a favor and just look at them after you load them or switch to wet SS tumbling.

Same cases in #12 after tumbling.

[Dufus]

I have used an UltraVibe 45 for many moons.

I find that when the cases do not appear to "move" properly, just add more media.

Generally I use treated walnut first, then when all case prep is complete and the brass is ready to load, I tumble again in corncob. This removes the case lube and any dust from the walnut.

When the tumbler is used to its maximum capacity, I use approximately 20 lbs of media.

I just did 1500 9 mm cases a few weeks ago, and they were polished within 4 hours in one batch.

[condor bravo]

DMY:

Re: your 4th observation. Yes be sure that the NuFinish clumps are well broken up before returning the cases to the tumbler. The clumps and cases do not go well together when tumbling but probably you picked that up in a previous post. And keep in mind the strips of Fabric Softener dryer sheets to pick up the dust residue that will accumulate. Add cut up strips every two or three tumblings or so. Replenish some NuFinish when it seems that it is taking too much time for polishing to satisfaction. With my tumbling of mostly rifle cases, not more than 100 at a time, replenishment is every 10 to 12 tumblings, but that may be overdoing it some.

Dufus' Ultra-Vibe 45 (above) has to be exceptional; I use the smaller 18. Those are available from Tru Square Products.

[Mobuck]

I don't particularly like corn cobs since it seems to turn to dust quickly.
Walnut hulls clean better and last longer. My opinion of the "pet bedding" products for case tumbling is not printable and that's all I can say about that. If you can't afford actual tumbling media, trim some costs elsewhere.

[4runnerman]

Mobuck- You don't like the Zilla Bedding?. Can you say why. I sell brass on the side here. I usually am tumbeling brass 7 days a week. I have been doing this for about 5 years now. All I use is Zilla, I add some NU-Finish and let it rip. Most weeks I will tumble about 2000 cases a week in the summer Months. I have had many of my customers e mail me back and ask me --How do you get the cases so clean and shinny.
There is nothing wrong with buying media, other than I can get 20lbs of Zilla for the price of maybe 7 or 10 lbs of store stuff. ( to me that is a lot of money, considering I am going through 20lbs a month) The biggest benefit I find is Zilla is smaller and seems to work faster. Being it is smaller it never gets stuck in flash hole. I tumble a lot of 6BR cases. Regular media plugs the flash hole all the time, creating one more step for me. Never have that problem with zilla. When I pull my brass out , it is as shinney as the pic above in every way other then inside.