US Army: Modular Handgun System

[barnbwt]

The military has to ping industry with the stupid requests every so often or they'll stop making relevant products for military use and divert to civilian/Leo needs. That is all.

TCB

[James K]

Some of us have seen the recent Congressional hearings on various issues. Who would want to go before a bunch of hard-nosed men and women like that and explain why the SIG, or the H&K, or the Glock, or the whatever is so superior to the M9 that Congress has to pony up a whole bunch of benjamins to change?

Let's hear it, fans of those guns! Can you convince Issa, let alone Pelosi, that YOUR favorite gun is so markedly superior that the Army MUST adopt it, NOW, or the world is lost? Sure you can. Not.

Jim

[Pico]

Sorry folks, I was waiting for someone to mention what Fishbed77 did in that the Military recently re-committed to the Beretta and is not going to change any time soon.

Any handguns are not really relevant against an enemy armed with AK-47 or 74 rifles. If your pistol comes out in combat, you are only trying to take a few with you before you are killed or hope they run away and drop their rifle for you.

Pico

[Sharkbite]

Any handguns are not really relevant against an enemy armed with AK-47 or 74 rifles. If your pistol comes out in combat, you are only trying to take a few with you before you are killed or hope they run away and drop their rifle for you.

If thats what you think you have no knowledge of the use of the pistol in warfare. WWII is FULL of historically proven uses of pistols to GOOD effect.

Educate yourself before spouting off inane drivel

[CDW4ME]

Oh how I hope they pick 45 GAP

For every time someone has posted:

"answer to a question nobody asked"
or
"solution looking for a problem"

I wish they would chose 45 GAP

[barnbwt]

Can you convince Issa, let alone Pelosi, that YOUR favorite gun is so markedly superior that the Army MUST adopt it, NOW, or the world is lost? Sure you can. Not.

Well, not for free, anyway

"Esteemed members of Congress and the Armed Forces. Your pistols are old and clapped out, and no one else is using them."

*Eddie Murphy as the barber in Coming to America* "That'll be 800,000 dollars..."

TCB

I'd try to convince them for $800,000 that the past, is the future, is the FNH five-seven.

[Pico]

Handguns were / are issued to pilots, tank crews, officers, and non-coms who either were not able to shoulder a rifle due to their relative assignments or as a supplementary weapon to underscore their rank. As much as I love them, up against any rifle they are insignificant. Argue this point.

On a modern battlefield, pistols are not important unless you have no other option. If you are going up against an enemy armed with a weapon which is firing 7.62 x 39 mm or 5.45 x 39 mm; 9mm, .40, .357 sig, or .45 auto will ALL be ineffective.

AND you may not care for my posting and have every right to disagree but show respect. I am neither non-educated nor am I spouting. I am expressing my opinion which is what this forum is all about.

Pico

[marine6680]

The M9 will be replaced sometime... When...

Who knows.


Maybe it will happen. The military is being pressured to be more friendly and accommodating to female personnel. Many of those females may find the M9 large for their hands, causing training and qualification issues.

Females will be allowed in to more and more roles... many that put them directly in harms way, and pistol quals will be more and more frequent for them...

Can you imagine the headaches when the first significant numbered class of females has to go through serious pistol quals (not some support role technicality qual that can be brushed off) and half of them are having difficulty with the trigger reach and large grip size?

No... the military is going to have to replace the M9 sometime. Current trends are moving that direction. Its just a matter of when.

[kcub]

5.7?

I've heard the damage done in the Texas shooting in Ft. Hood was impressive.

[Tom Servo]

Wait a minute...the only pistol that fits the bill for their proposal is the Sig P250? The same pistol the Dutch don't even want?

Let's not forget the botched 2010 ATF trials, in which the P250 failed, and Sig claimed the Bureau "placed too great an emphasis upon reliability?"

Sorry, gang. No way can anyone convince Congress to greenlight that.

[TunnelRat]

WWII is FULL of historically proven uses of pistols to GOOD effect.

For the love of all that is holy, can we get over WWII? It was a while ago last I checked.

This is not WWII. The only units using pistols in combat are mostly elite units that aren't using the M9 anyway, so they don't care what the majority uses. Those pistols are mostly for MPs and officers, and the absolute most rear of the rear echelon troops. This isn't WWII where the standard issue rifle was the M1 Garand. An M4 carbine can be used from a vehicle and isn't that much of a burden for rear echelon troops to tote around. M1 Garand weighs a tad more than an M4. Elite units will continue to use whatever pistols they want.

As I mentioned, we almost lost the A10 and even saved it doesn't have the funding to truly be maintained. That's just one weapon system. $1 trillion over 10 years folks. Pistols? Pistols are a concern? Biggest cuts since the end of WWII. Ask anyone on the inside. Pistols? I don't even.

[tipoc]

Can you imagine the headaches when the first significant numbered class of females has to go through serious pistol quals (not some support role technicality qual that can be brushed off) and half of them are having difficulty with the trigger reach and large grip size?

Lordy! Lordy! I can more than imagine it I've seen it.

The M11 has been around since the M9 was adopted. Big and small handed men and women have been qualifying with both the Beretta 92 and the Sig P226 for a quarter century now.

tipoc

[Rob96]

So what does the 357 Sig offer that the 9mm parabellum doesnt? Its a little faster with more blast and recoil while still firing the same fmj bullet. The 40 S&W again greater recoil, harder on the gun for not much in gains if any. Yes a specialized unit uses it but they primarily use there SBR AR's. So that leaves 45acp. Again in fmj no big gains. Maybe if they switch to a flat nose projectile. The thing that cracks me up is them citing the location of the decocker on the M9 when the Army spec'd that.

[kcub]

What specialized unit uses .40?

One good thing about the .40 is the FMJ is flat nose by definition. I would think the HK USP in .40 would make a great choice. The German army chose the 9mm version so it is well vetted. And we're talking about a country that also has Sig Sauer and Walther as favorite sons so it had some stiff competition and came out on top. Also the USP was designed from the get go around the .40; not retro engineered from a 9mm like Glock and many others.

[mete]

A-10 ? That's a good idea ! arm each soldier with a 30mm gatling !! That'll stop them.
Like cops the real answer is to spend more time and money in training.

But handguns don't win wars they are not a main weapon.

[kcub]

But handguns don't win wars they are not a main weapon.

Agreed. They perhaps should get the lightest pistol possible which means plastic and that way way they can carry an extra 5.56 mag or 2 for the weight saving which has a far better chance of saving their bacon anyway.

[Brutus]

Just another example of unbridled government waste.

There is no handgun in the world (regardless of caliber) that represents a significant enough improvement over the M9 to justify its replacement.

What he said except,
Just another example of unbridled government waste.

There is no handgun in the world (regardless of caliber) that represents a significant enough improvement over the 1911 to justify its replacement.
Just my opinion.

[jmr40]

There has NEVER been any legit side by side comparison showing 9mm to be significantly less effective than any other semi-auto round. Especially when FMJ ammo is used. And the military WILL continue to use FMJ ammo.

If moving to 40 S&W helps increase soldiers confidence in their weapon, then so be it. It is a good round and will work. Going back to 45 would be a huge mistake. Don't even think about a 1911.

I'm not a huge fan of the Beretta, but it is a fine gun. I've owned and shot a few, I'd trust my life to the weapon if issued one. If spending my money I just prefer other designs that are every bit as good.

While not a Beretta fan I think replacing it at this time is a waste of money. There are other more modern designs that are better in a lot of ways, but not enough better to spend the money on. Especially for something so low on the priority list.

[Rob96]

If we were to look at .40's designed from the get go, then you also have the M&P. I carried the M9 when I served and never felt under gunned. At this point if they just absolutely have to spend money on a firearm invest it rotating out the well used M4's with new ones.

I also believe the A-10 is an incredible aircraft. One of my favorite to see on the flight line when out on patrol.

[hlds54]

I really think they just need to switch their ammo choice

+1
Maybe a good +p round, or do Like the Russians and have a light weight bullet ( 90 grains) and loaded it +p+, that would solve the ammo problem.

[hlds54]

They need to be realistic and accept the limitations of handguns.

Hit the nail on the head

[kcub]

Will a flat nose 10mm hit harder than a 9mm round nose? I imagine it would.

Why not the Glock 20 in 10mm? High cap, serves the Danes well in Greenland where they might have to fend off polar bears. Dress it up you get close to .41 mag power. Dress it down you get .40 power. A good pistol should be able to handle both types of ammo. Should be flat and accurate enough (minute of terrorist) for 100 yard shots. Still not as good as a carbine but maybe the next best thing you're going to get.

Or heck, just make it a 1911 10mm. 9 + 1 rounds, fits all hands.

[tahunua001]

$10 says they still stick with the M9. Hard to beat the reliability. I really think they just need to switch their ammo choice.

my experience with the M9 suggests anything less than hard to beat reliability. granted the failures happening up and down the line were in poorly maintained guns that saw upwards of 500 rounds a week, however, still left a bitter taste in my mouth for the M9.

I still think they'll stick with the M9, they've been "replacing" the M9 for 15 years and 15 years ago they had a heck of a lot more funding than they do now. definitely not going to change calibers... the cost of refitting lake city would give the welfare office a heart attack.

[Rob96]

10mm? FBI went down that road which gave us the 40. As was stated, handguns have their limitations especially when restricted to ball ammo.

[TunnelRat]

Why not the Glock 20 in 10mm? High cap, serves the Danes well in Greenland where they might have to fend off polar bears. Dress it up you get close to .41 mag power. Dress it down you get .40 power. A good pistol should be able to handle both types of ammo. Should be flat and accurate enough (minute of terrorist) for 100 yard shots. Still not as good as a carbine but maybe the next best thing you're going to get.

If the enemy develops an army of polar bears capable of using guns, I suggest we surrender.